Aggression or Submission

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bex1984

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Bear with me here, I do have a point but also have a headache so may struggle to make it coherently...

Since being attacked by a large dog at 6 months old, my terrier (Stan) has been nervous of most other dogs. This mainfests himself in that when he meets a new dog, on or off lead, he'll have a sniff, freeze, and then bark, open mouthed, right next to the other dog's face and neck. It looks and sounds horrible, but he never nips, bites etc. Other dog owners tend to assume he's aggressive - I've always felt that this a tactic which works for him, he makes a big noisy display and the big scary dog goes away.

Anyway...I was watching Hippo: a Wild Feast, which was on Channel 4 a few weeks ago. At one point a pack of hyenas are feasting on the hippo, and one hyena does to another exactly what Stan does to dogs he is scared of. The hyena expert explained that although it appears aggressive, the hyena is actually showing submission with this behaviour.

Which made me wonder if it could be the same for dogs? Could Stan's behaviour actually be a display of submission?
 
Hard to say without seeing him, a friend's GSD bitch does this, everyone in town avoids them, I don't, she does it to my pup, he couldn't give fig and they play like lunatics with her still barking in his ear, she has never, ever bitten him, it's just posturing, I find her a very insecure female.
 
Darcy used to do this when I first had her and after what happened to your dog Im not surprised . Lots of training to look at the other dog then click and reward when no reaction, work on getting closer and then being able to sniff. Lots of high value treats works wonders and at the end I was doing agility with her and dogs coming up and barking in her face and she would just ignore them. They will slip back because you are dealing with a fearful dog but if you work on building his confidence around nice tempered dogs it shouldnt be an issue.

No idea about the hyena thing because they have quite a strange hierarchy anyway.
 
Ricoh does very similar - he howls and sometimes lunges towards strange dogs without actually making contact with them. If allowed/encouraged to approach the dog he's perfectly fine, waggy-tailed and sniffy, shuts up immediately.

I think, as you say, that they use it as a defence mechanism - they make a noise, the other owner goes 'argh, aggressive dog!' and calls/pulls their dog away = don't have to deal with the dog that makes them anxious any more. I know that he's 100% fine if allowed to approach the other dog but understandably people avoid the big howling wolf thing on the other side of the path.

He was attacked by a collie today - not seriously, thanks to the fact that he has thick neck fur and wears a fitted padded harness, but when it properly went for him around the throat he just shrank back and yelped, no attempt to fight back at all. Really wasn't spoiling for a fight as everyone would believe to see him howling and lunging!

For what it's worth he made a huge improvement following an intensive 6 week course (shadowing a puppy socialisation class :o) with lots of emphasis on focus work, gradually ramping it up so he was doing all the normal obedience stuff closer and closer to the other dogs.
 
It sounds like what you describe it is his way of not inviting full contact but keeping the dog at arms length without attacking its more a panicked warning, so more like a way of keeping the contact to a minimum at this stage, this kind of behaviour tends to throw the other dog and generally the other dog will start to prance around and initiate play or prance/whinge to try and get closer in a more non threatening manor for a sniff rather than jump on in for a fight or just back off saying "wow little dude, ok ok, calm down":D, so what he is doing is more tactical from that point of view, it does not sound like aggression. Only by what you describe.
Does he ever relax around the dogs if they are not in direct contact?
 
Cayla - yes, he's fine near other dogs, just doesn't like it if they get within touching distance. No dog has ever reacted aggressively to his actions, as you say they either back off or prance about a bit - some (usually other terriers!) will then start to play. The owners are more of a problem ;) We had one sticky incident with a lab puppy recently - owner freaked out and called stan all sorts of names, I left in tears, but I can understand her reaction because hers was only a pup so didn't know what was happening (and Stan had approached it, off lead, so I'd foolishly thought he'd be fine...).

He goes to his breeder every so often - she has around 20 terriers, 5 collies, a lurcher and a GIANT rottie x and he is fine with all of them. I think he's confident in that setting, he knows his place.
 
blackcob said:
Ricoh does very similar - he howls and sometimes lunges towards strange dogs without actually making contact with them. If allowed/encouraged to approach the dog he's perfectly fine, waggy-tailed and sniffy, shuts up immediately.

I think, as you say, that they use it as a defence mechanism - they make a noise, the other owner goes 'argh, aggressive dog!' and calls/pulls their dog away = don't have to deal with the dog that makes them anxious any more. I know that he's 100% fine if allowed to approach the other dog but understandably people avoid the big howling wolf thing on the other side of the path.

=QUOTE]

Me thinks you have a Ginger gobshite in Wolf clothes! :D
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