Aggressive horse at feeding times - advice needed please

jesterfaerie

jesterfaerie

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My two geldings live out together 24/7 and seem to get on pretty well together. However for the past month my horse has turned aggressive when he gets fed this has come on gradually. It started off with him just pulling grumpy faces at the pony but it has no progressed to kicking out and chasing and also pulling grumpy faces at me.
As far as I am aware this is the horse’s first winter living and being fed outside rather than coming in on a night and being fed inside.

I feel he has always being a bit insecure about eating, he would lift one leg up whilst he is eating and was always told this may be a sign of insecurity. He also stopped doing this earlier this year but if someone came to his stable door he would start again. Now he does look worried when he eats, and he is wafting his leg around a lot more than normal.
The horse is the dominant one of the two and his food is not being eaten by the pony, so I doubt this is the cause. However he really seems to have an issue towards the pony when it comes to feeding.

He is only fed Hi-Fi with mud guard powder and GH supercalm, this feed hasn’t changed and he gets a fair amount as it is being fed as a hay replacer and it is split into several feeds throughout the day. His behaviour doesn’t change according to the feed so he generally acts the same for his dinner or tea etc than how he acted at breakfast etc. Other than this he seems happy enough living out, he is rugged up well and is keeping his weight.

I have tried feeding him first, or last and neither seem to help. He can act the same (although not as bad) when I take the buckets out the field. 9/10 I take their feed into the field a little earlier so that they are not waiting and then I shout them up, he will still get grumpy then especially if the pony gets his head in his own bucket first.

I don't have an issue with him trying to get the food from me when I come into the field of if I stand holding it. However he is just being such a grumpy sod, putting his ears back and pulling faces even if the pony isn't near me or the bucket.
A few times the horse has lunged at the pony (horse behind me, pony in front) and just gone straight into me as he didn't give me enough room. As I said this has been progressive but I don't know what has caused this, or even why he is still being grumpy towards me even if the pony isn't near us. I don't think it is aimed at me nor do I think he will purposely do something to me but it wouldn't be nice to get caught in the cross fire so to speak. The pony doesn't do anything back he will just wander off and wait for him to stop having such a hissy fit and then come over to me.

I am particularly worried at the moment as two new horses are coming into the field, they will be separated off. I am worried that if he ends up trashing the fencing (which isn't unknown) then all 4 of them may have to be in the same field full stop. However I am worried that she may end up on the receiving end of his temper if I cannot sort this issue out.

Also they have been given very small amounts of haylage when the snow was very bad and he was fine with that. When I fetch the buckets I generally leave the gate open and they stay in their field once or twice they haven't and have come into another field which has the farm buildings in, one has an open door at the back and a large bale of haylage. He is more than happy for the pony to stand next to him and munch on that together before been put back in their own field. So it really does seem to be bucket orientated.

Other than this he seems to be normal and his usual happy self.
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I am just worried I have been doing something wrong and I have caused this. Any advice is welcome and appreciated as I have tried everything I can think of to stop His Highness from throwing his temper tantrums...
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Thank you
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well first of all you do actually need to command some sort of respect from him at meal times especially when you take the buckets in. My horses always wait untill their buckets are put down and are never allowed to dive in before hand. You will need to be firm and have a whip/stick to waive at him to keep him back untill you are ready to put the bucket down. Or generally stand tall and put your arms up and down untill your horse is quiet and then immediately put the bucket down as his reward for standing nicely. This will take a bit of perseverance, You do not need to hit him though and I would never advise this. Your horses should be fed quite away apart from each other so as not to cause any protective actions over the food which is what your horse is showing. Have you got somebody who can help you to start off with? Hungry horses will always show some sort of protective action over their food as it is in their nature but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't expect him to respect you either.
 
You say he's 'getting a small amount of hayledge when the snows bad' Presumable he's not getting any normally then?

I suspect he might be hungry. He's not got anything worth eating between buckets (the grass will be rubbish, even if there is plenty of it) so when he does get his bucket he feels the needs to fight for it's protection.

Can you feed adlib hayledge in the field and dispense with the bucket feeds. If he has a constant supply of decent food (hayledge) he shouldn't feel the need to protect it.

We always have similar fighting when the hayledge first goes into the field in early winter. Once they've realised it's going to stay they settle down and share nicely.
 
He is fine and will stand and wait for his bucket to be put down and won't attempt to take the food from me when I come into the field, nor will he barge for the bucket etc. I don't feed them near the gate so if he is going to pull faces it will be whilst I am walking to feed them and generally because he goes to chase the pony so I don't think the aggression and face pulling is aimed at me. I do make sure that they are fed very far away from each other as well.
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You say he's 'getting a small amount of hayledge when the snows bad' Presumable he's not getting any normally then?

I suspect he might be hungry. He's not got anything worth eating between buckets (the grass will be rubbish, even if there is plenty of it) so when he does get his bucket he feels the needs to fight for it's protection.

Can you feed adlib hayledge in the field and dispense with the bucket feeds. If he has a constant supply of decent food (hayledge) he shouldn't feel the need to protect it.

We always have similar fighting when the hayledge first goes into the field in early winter. Once they've realised it's going to stay they settle down and share nicely.

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No they don't get it normally as neither of them do well with hayledge and I have struggled to get my hands on any hay which is why I am having the feed the chop as a hay replacer and then giving some haylegde on top of this when the snow came.
 
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No they don't get it normally as neither of them do well with hayledge and I have struggled to get my hands on any hay which is why I am having the feed the chop as a hay replacer and then giving some haylegde on top of this when the snow came.

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I think that might be your problem then. I could pretty much guarentee that our little herd of perfectly happy horses (who adore each other) would fight over feed buckets if they only got a couple of times a day.

They don't do well on hayledge? In what way? Unless it's serious it would be better having adlib hayledge rather than long periods of nothing worth eating.

Alterantively could you give the hay replacer adlib? It's be bloody expensive but you could tip it into a long feed trough, dry so they can share and it takes longer to eat. The act of giving it in a bucket will make it seem much more precious than it actually is. Once he's learnt it's always going to be there he should stop being so silly over, esp if he's fine sharing hayledge.
 
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No they don't get it normally as neither of them do well with hayledge and I have struggled to get my hands on any hay which is why I am having the feed the chop as a hay replacer and then giving some haylegde on top of this when the snow came.

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I think that might be your problem then. I could pretty much guarentee that our little herd of perfectly happy horses (who adore each other) would fight over feed buckets if they only got a couple of times a day.

They don't do well on hayledge? In what way? Unless it's serious it would be better having adlib hayledge rather than long periods of nothing worth eating.

Alterantively could you give the hay replacer adlib? It's be bloody expensive but you could tip it into a long feed trough, dry so they can share and it takes longer to eat. The act of giving it in a bucket will make it seem much more precious than it actually is. Once he's learnt it's always going to be there he should stop being so silly over, esp if he's fine sharing hayledge.

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Thanks, I had wondered if it was an issue but as they were fed every few hours and then with hay for over night it made me think that there may have been a different issue rather than hunger and over protectiveness because of that.
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No feed, less forage - aside from the mud guard they don't really need feed in a bucket!

But, if you do re-introduce feed, take a stick and demand respect - as alpha mare, they can't eat until you have eaten. Squeal, turn your bum and aim a few kicks (you only need the stick in case they barge back!).

Then teach them to wait until you give the command.

Hopefully it should make him less possesive about his food, but totally agree he's probably hungry without hay/haylage!
 
They share the hay nicely over night?

A 'bucket' feed makes it extra special, even if it's only boring old chaff. I've seen plenty of horses fight over an empty bucket, never mind something with any form of food in it! And there's still that gap of nothing particularly to eat, regardless of how short it is - it can make a horse protective of their feed.

Could you not just feed leaves of hay every couple of hours instead of a bucket feed, or can you not get ahold of enough? It still has to be cheaper than bagged chaff! or however about feeding piles of hayledge during the day (enough to keep them occupied) then almost adlib hay at night? They might be ok on that, digestion wise. Or pour the dry chaff into a doesn't-look-anything-like-a-feed-bucket feeder. If you've got a bale feed you could even feed it directly out of bag! (rubber mat on bottom of feeder, bag split open length wise, on side. Unless your horses are going to be silly enough to eat the bag)
 
I can't get hold of enough to do that, thankfully the snow has gone so it at least gives the grass a chance to recover now so I will still be trying to get hold of some but it has been a nightmare trying to find some with the weather being the way it has been. I will be able to feed the chaff in a doesn't-look-anything-like-a-feed-bucket feeder, he was actually better if his feed was already on the floor rather than in a bucket. Never actually thought about splitting the old bag up and feeding it from that, thanks for the suggestion.
 
I have to agree that it is the bucket which makes the feed 'special'. If you are having trouble getting hay and really need to feed them the hay replacer could you take them inside to give them the feed buckets? This would avoid the possiblitiy of them fighting over the feed.
 
mine all turn into monsters as soon as they see a bucket! We have always fed them together or in groups and once they get their bucket they stick to it until they have finished but it is making sure the ones waiting don't try to get into the ones eating whilst getting all 13 of them out on the ground. As long as you leave plenty of space between them I wouldn't even worry as long as you can make sure they both finish about the same time. We also issue it in pecking order to avoid any confrontation.

We also have a couple that wave or lift a front leg, or paw like mad but this is just impatience because they cannot eat as fast as they want to.
 
My 3yo stallion has tried becoming like this in the stable at feed times.
If my girlfriend feeds him he can be a real pain pulling faces at her but I think thats because doesn't have respect for her, BUT as soon as I go to feed him he goes to the back of his stable and waits. He has never been beaten but from day one I made sure I was boss of him, he gets a bit impatient and throws a kick but I don't feed him when he does this, I stand by his door and wait until he goes to the back of his stable. I know its much more difficult in the field but you need to get respect off him.
(Or just dump the bucket over the fence and run...lol)
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