Aggressive unpredictable horse

[Poneetee]

Hello,

At what point is putting an aggressive horse PTS your option?

12YO gelding- always being fiesty on the ground and has always been aggressive - kicking, biting, striking and lunging/charging towards although the behaviour is unpredictable. Some days he’s an angel, amazing to handle but then some days he just switches and is a complete different horse. I could be leading him in from the field and he would randomly pin his ears back rear up and lunge down towards me with his teeth.
I’ve come to learn to read his expressions well which is how I’ve managed to stay safe, I can tell normally on certain days if he is worth attempting to handle or not and some days it’s just not worth the risk.

He has been checked by the vet/chiropractor/physio/vet. Saddle has also been checked although he is generally good under the saddle (was a vertical rearer as a youngster but rarely does this now unless excited or fizzed up).
I’ve gone back to basic ground work numerous times and tried to start at the start and had a many instructors come out in the past to help including natural horsemanship which defiantly works best for him and it has helped improved his groundwork in the school slightly but he always has days where he switches and is unsafe and unpredictable to handle and I’m struggling to find a trainer that can go much further with him as he’s at a point now that he doesn’t want to be pushed any further. If you push him too for he just switches again.

I now have a 1 year old little boy and struggling to manage my gelding behaviour whilst having a baby as his behaviour is starting to get more dangerous. I can’t risk selling him on or loaning as this would be irresponsible but at the same time it’s being increasing unsafe for me to handle him.

I have the vet coming out next week to have a check over him again and discuss possibly looking to see if he has any ulcers but I’m really at lost end on what to do.
Would ulcers cause such aggressive behaviour randomly and just towards humans? He is fine towards other horses and never lashes out at them, if anything he is always at the bottom of the pecking order. Is there anything else that could potentially be causing this, or could it be that he is just a well dominated horse?
there is no abuse/neglect in his past so this isn’t a trigger.

any ideas, advice or suggestions or anyone who has been in a similar situation would be helpful.

 

[TPO]

How long have you owned him?

 

[ycbm]

behaviour randomly and just towards humans? He is fine towards other horses and never lashes out at them, if anything he is always at the bottom of the pecking order

Yes. If he's bottom of the pecking order he has no one to lash out at. I would say scoping for ulcers is top of the list.

But if it isn't that, he's an unhappy horse and I would always support a PTS decision of an unhappy horse for whom no easy answer can be found.
.

 

[[153312]]

Have you considered Cushing's or a brain tumour?

Though I agree that it wouldn't be at all unreasonable to pts, both for your welfare and that of the animal.


Eta - I think more info on how he is managed/kept and history might be good but again, you sound like you've tried a lot already and under the circumstances pts wouldn't be an unreasonable decision whatsoever.

 

[Velcrobum]

I PTS a horse at the age of 10 whose behaviour was not as extreme as yours but he had the potential to be. He had become a field ornament as he also damaged himself regularly. You need to put the safety of yourself and child first in this instance.

 

[millikins]

I would discuss scoping for ulcers with your vet but as a last chance. Your son's safety is of paramount importance, if this was a dog not a horse would you allow it anywhere your little one?

 

[AmyMay]

Mmmm, if I were in your shoes I’m afraid it would be gone.

 

[BBP]

I would absolutely scope first and then decide. Although mine wasn’t aggressive with his ulcers I’ve known some who are, and mines ridden behaviour appeared very hit and miss, e.g. anxious, wild and frightening out hacking, and yet would barely move forwards when in the arena or field schooling, but would run around in the field with his mates.

As a human with stomach ulcers, they definitely made me angry and unpredictable and some days they were tolerable and other days horrendously painful.

 

[Jellymoon]

As a mum, there is no way I would keep a horse like this when you have a baby. I would pts. Sounds like a brain issue to me.

 

[eggs]

The only horse I knew who could be very unpredictable was pts and found to have a brain tumour.

 

[Equi]

It entirely depends on your budget (or rather, what you are willing to spend) it could be ulcers, kissing spines, tumor, cushings...so many other things. Vets could look forever and find nothing solid or could look once and find something life changing. You are the only one who can decide what you are willing to spend to look and how much emotionally you can stand to look also. When the vet comes back mention a few things and gather an idea of the costs, weigh it up and make a decision based on facts rather than heart. Some vets will entertain the idea of pts for the type of behavior you describe, some will want to steer you into the 50k investigations..so make your own mind up and be firm with the vet once you have.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I was going to pts my 12 yr old TBxWelsh mare who was extremely unpredictable, when we changed her diet and found that she couldn't tolerate any cereals or refined sugar. If you feed him on anything at all except grass/hay, I would stop feeding him and see if that makes a difference

ETA, she lived to be 24.

 

[BSL2]

Sorry you have this worry. I had an aggressive horse (bad human history plus cut late). My children were older and had very, very strict instructions on staying out of the way. I loved him and cared for him until he sadly got colic and had to be put to sleep. My opinion with most animals and especially with expensive, high maintenance, sensitive horses, is there are an awful lot worse things than a peaceful end with a vet and loving owner. It is so easy to suggest "vet investigations", but the reality is, there are extortionate costs involved, not always covered by insurance. Just my opinion, quality of life over quantity, everytime. Keep yourself and your family safe. Lots of good wishes sent your way.

 

[Backtoblack]

Definitely scope for ulcers, at least you'll know if the horse has them or not and you can make a more informed decision

 

[Sossigpoker]

Scope for ulcers and also x-ray the neck. I put my 5 year old down as he turned out to be a wobbler ,.confirmed by the neck x-ray. He became very aggressive, even picked a vet up by her hair !

 

[Ratface]

I'm so sorry that you're in such a difficult situation.
I would recommend having your horse quietly pts.

 

[windand rain]

I too recommend PTS I live with a 12hh version have owned him from a foal he was born like it he is 16 but has been on borrowed time since he was 4 months old. Fortunately I have the facilities and he can be kept away from humans to a point and serves as an excellent companion as he is good with other horses and can be left alone if needs be. He really should have been PTS years ago

 

[Trouper]

I would certainly do some (final?) investigations because it does seem like a sudden reaction to pain when a particular part of the body is placed under strain or put in a certain position. My boy used to suddenly go berserk when being led and, although we identified that it was somewhere in the head/neck, we could not identify it specifically enough for treatment. I did find leading on a very loose rein reduced the incidents but not sufficiently to be considered safe.

So, yes, I would pts if you cannot get a clear diagnosis.

 

[babymare]

I’m so sorry you are in this situation. Possibly discuss ulcers with vet but if you decide to pts do not feel guilt because it is obvious you are a good caring owner not wanting to sell or loan. Stay safe x

 

[eahotson]

Like others I am sorry you are in this situation.You could try ulcer investigation but if it isn't ulcers or it is but the behaviour doesn't change I think you should put to sleep.He isn't happy and you and your childs safety must come first.

 

[Shilasdair]

There is something wrong with your horse.
I know the vets haven't found it yet, but it's there.
Your description of him reminded me very much of a horse I knew - the answer to her problems was found by accident when they did 'sleep research' by videoing all the horses in the barn. She never lay down, she never slept - because her back hurt her too much to get up and down. Further investigations revealed a spinal problem, which was operated on and cured, and she was a completely happy horse.
Now, you may choose to spend money on a last round of investigations (I would but then I have funds and no kids to worry about), or you may choose to PTS - both valid and responsible courses of action.

 

[Annagain]

There is something wrong with your horse.
I know the vets haven't found it yet, but it's there.
Your description of him reminded me very much of a horse I knew - the answer to her problems was found by accident when they did 'sleep research' by videoing all the horses in the barn. She never lay down, she never slept - because her back hurt her too much to get up and down. Further investigations revealed a spinal problem, which was operated on and cured, and she was a completely happy horse.
Now, you may choose to spend money on a last round of investigations (I would but then I have funds and no kids to worry about), or you may choose to PTS - both valid and responsible courses of action.

This 100%. He is suffering and his behaviour is a symptom of this. Stopping the suffering is the important thing, how you do that depends on many factors but there's no wrong option other than doing nothing.

 

[Poneetee]

THANK YOU all so much for your kind words and for making me feel ALOT better about the possibility of PTS and for sharing your views and similar situations.

We are investigating ulcers and having a scan on the neck back and head. Whilst I don’t have millions at my dispense, I have a little to be able to give some final investigations on these and will then make a decision based on the results we receive.

 

[MyBoyChe]

My friend has a horse with a similar MO, she bred him and hes always been feisty, but at times bordering on dangerously spiteful. He tested positive for Ems this year and although I think some of his behaviours are ingrained now as he knows he can get away with stuff, he has changed so much since we started to manage him accordingly, better diet, absolutely no sugar, weight under control etc. He is also on individual turnout, friends all around but in his own paddock, this also seems to have taken away some of his aggression. I would agree that there is definitely a reason but finding it might not be easy and you must keep yourself and your child safe. No point in putting yourself at risk although there might be a few simple things you can do to rule stuff out

 

[Identityincrisis]

I had a horse, i bought him at 3 yrs old, although I couldn't tell you why, he was awful at the viewing,! Wheeling, lunging and biting during the trot up but i gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought time and 1-2-1 would benefit him. How wrong i was! He was a ticking time bomb and i often said this horse will kill me one day. Rearing in hand daily, lunging when he wasn't rearing. The biting!!! Arghhh!!! He could be aggressive in the field with horses and humans. Then he had an accident and was on/off lame for 2 years by which point i called it a day as he had been investigated and nothing of significance found to make him lame and he wasn't a nice horse to have around so, i had him PTS. Despite all of our issues it was hard as he was only 8 but it was for the best, he clearly wasn't a happy horse

 

[MagicMelon]

I had a Welsh Cob 3yo who was agressive when I first got him. He'd lunge at me, bite a lot, try to kick, pin you against the wall, would tank off when leading and try and kick you on the way past etc. Took about 6 months of groundwork, being really gentle but firm (never hitting or shouting at him) and he improved massively, its like he had to find reason to respect me. I sold him to a lady who returned him to me within a week saying he'd taken chunks out of her and kicked her several times, he'd obviously reverted back to his original behaviour even though he hadnt displayed any of it for years with me! He ended up going to a teenager who he just seemed to click with and she never had any issues with him. I dont know what Im saying really, but is he any better with someone else handling him? I know its a big ask as you probably dont want anyone else risking themselves... but Ive seen first hand how ridiculously different a horse can be with different people. If it were mine, I would investigate as much as possible as the fact hes worse on certain days does seem odd and sounds pain related. I would then consider PTS if the horse wasnt happy, he doesnt sound all that happy to behave like that.

 

[Winters100]

As others have said there are many possible causes, you might be lucky to find the cause, or you could spend a small fortune and still be none the wiser. The only thing that I would say is that you are kind and sensible in not considering selling on, and no one could criticize if you did decide to PTS, there are much worse things that can happen to a horse. Whatever you decide to do I wish you all the best.