Agh i give up - with video of why

[Vicki_Krystal]

I took my highly talented yet somewhat naughty Robbie to a course hire down the road - idea being give him a pop round before Patchetts on Monday.

Well he warmed up well for him - very windy and under the flight path for London Luton airport

Then he decided to turn into the brat and test exactly HOW sticky my sticky bum breeches were when we started jumping.
He jumped a few fences nicely - then i approached the double...



Commentry by my mum there

But seriously he is beginning to get to me - he is just a pain the ass and im beginning to think i should just get shot off him.
He has had sooo many chances but he is inconsistent - one day he will win a disco the next not go in the ring.

Back, teeth, saddle etc all checked.

I just want to kill him!

ETS im beginning to lose faith in my own ability to ride him and its really getting me down.

 

[sachak]

Oh my.... Sounds just like what I am going through with Chester at the moment. Well, the confidence crisis bit is anywy - he cant be consistent when he is still being educated - right- well i keep telling myself that!!!

What is your trainer's take on it???

Is he going out regularly...? I ask this because the mare I used to compete used to be a complete arse when not out regularly its almost like she would forget what she is supposed to do after any length of time out of the job.

How long have you hadhim???

gosh i think im really useless haha but yeh ill get my thinking cap on???

 

[thorwaldharry]

how old is he? just that I have had the same with my boy at times, but he just needed to gain confidence?

 

[measles]

Watching that there is nothing at all wrong with your riding ability - he'd have had most folks off. Seriously well sat.

 

[Weezy]

Naughty little f*cker, that was REALLY rude

Absolutely not you BTW.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

Right will try to answer everything in one!

He hasnt been to many shows recently as my Uncle is ill with cancer and horses (well competing them) have taken a back seat.

He has been in full work though with mixture of lunging and schooling.
I have schooled him over poles and small fences as i also think it is confidence that is the problem.
When i jump him at home he is fine for a few then gets really strong and tries to take off to fences - when i politely ask him to wait for me he then throws his teddies and starts to nap.

I dont know whether it is just over exhuberance (?) on his part or whether he is stressed.

He is 8 but i got him 18 months ago and he hadnt been in the ring since a 4yr old as he scared his then owner and she kept him as a pet, so he is vastly behind where he should be.

He has also stopped like that with my trainer on at just a single fence.

Ive tried smacking him - it makes him worse.
Ive tried ignoring it - he just carries on doing it.
Ive tried jumping a few - then off to do some flatwork but as soon as i re start jumping he is an ass.

A few people on here have seen him compete - on good days and bad and he is so scopey that i am reluctant to give up on him but how much longer i can put up with him i dont know.

Thanks measles - i thought i was coming off too!

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

[ QUOTE ]
Naughty little f*cker, that was REALLY rude

Absolutely not you BTW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks - im beginning to think its me - i keep re watching it and my leg is on, he is going forwards and then BANG!

I agree with your description off him!

 

[Weezy]

He is just acting like a total brat! You presented well, spot on into the cross, he didn't even wobble going into it, he gave you NO warning and there is nothing you could have done, he is super quick at dropping and swerving.

Did he jump it afterwards?

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

Of course he did! about 5 times.

Then i presented to a filler he hadnt seen yet and he stopped 3 strides out - he got made to jump it form there though in trot.

I just dont know where to go with him - flipping horse

 

[measles]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Naughty little f*cker, that was REALLY rude

Absolutely not you BTW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks - im beginning to think its me - i keep re watching it and my leg is on, he is going forwards and then BANG!

I agree with your description off him!

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no way in gods earth that you were in any way to blame. He was a little sod there, I'm afraid. IMHO when a young horse has been too much for their rider and they have backed off as you suggest happened with the previous owner then no matter of your quite obvious talent you'll have a fairly long term battle on your hands. I know someone who is in exactly the same position at the moment.

Forgive me as I haven't read anything else about him but have you tried some xc schooling or jump cross or hunting him? It would perhaps kill or cure him but might get him thinking forwards?

If you've given him 18mths and he's still being a prat and you're sure there's nothing sore then perhaps time to ask yourself whether being his mum is fun? If not then time to move him on?

Whatever else you do based on that video don't blame yourself! You can instead for being on the wrong diagonal in the flatwork video

 

[measles]

[ QUOTE ]
Then i presented to a filler he hadnt seen yet and he stopped 3 strides out - he got made to jump it form there though in trot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an 8yo horse that a rider with your ability has had for 18mths? Doesn't sound like much fun..

 

[3BayGeldings]

Your Mum took the words right out of my mouth!!

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

to the correct trot diagonal! my bad!

Yep 18 months - have won classes on him, loads of placings but it is never easy.
If he goes well in the ring you can bet he has been an ass wipe in the warm up.

I had thought about hunting him but thought he may kill me but i havn't completely dismissed it.
I also do have a local x country course - but i showjump! solid fences scare me!
I need to get a grip and just take him to as much as i can - as you say, kill or cure!

 

[Baydale]

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but it does look like he's just being naughty. As you know his history and that he scared his owner when he was 4, he obviously thinks it's acceptable behaviour as he's got away with it.

If he were mine - and in light of my recent injury

- I'd be tempted to send him away to a nagsman to have a sort out with him, probably by putting someone young (and bouncy

) on him and having someone experienced behind him with a lunge whip. He's got to learn where the line in the sand is drawn, and what's right and wrong.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

[ QUOTE ]
Your Mum took the words right out of my mouth!!

[/ QUOTE ]

i did laugh when i played it back!
Im quite liking the fact that nearly sending me down the shoulder wasnt enough - he tried to launch into a bronco afterwards.
Delightful pony!

 

[measles]

Baydale makes a good point - you could come a cropper easily. Have a serious think - like I said it should be fun and call me what you want but no 8yo horse should be stopping at fillers when he is being correctly ridden.

Good luck with the hunting!

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

Baydale / Measles - i know exactly what you are saying. I could get very hurt on him and this is in the back of mind - unfortunately its in the FRONT of my parents minds.

I have thought about sending him away but i really dont think a beating will improve him - several stronger friends have all thought they could give him a hiding and he has ditched all bar one of them.

I also do think it could be a confidence issue displayed by bad behaviour - so if i am right a pasting is just going to add to his fear.

Ive thought about turning him away and re starting him but my parents are reluctant to do this.

I am just completely at a loss as to what to do.

 

[Araminta]

Well sat you!

I think a career change may be the order of the day.

Him that is - you go girl.

Don't let him drag you down - lifes too short.

Honestly though, I have seen this time and time again ( bit long in the tooth now)

If you keep jumping him I think all that will happen is he will destroy your nerve!

Let him go do a job he enjoys while you find a horse that shares your love of S/J.

 

[Baydale]

It's such extreme behaviour that you'd think he'd been pushed, over-faced or just generally stressed by his "job". It's not as if those fences are overly-big or overly-spooky, they're well within his considerable capabilities. Knowing that he's had other stronger riders off, maybe a complete change of scenery would do him the world of good, so I'm with measles re hunting him. Failing that, pairs hunter trials, little team chases, anything to remind him that going forward is fun and easy and stress-free.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

Yeah this is what im thinking - do a bit more of something else on him.

I just had a look through some old tapes of him and while he is looking at fences he doesnt seem reluctant to jump..



Last show was beginning of Feb and we went 0 - 4 BN and DC disco.
He was a TIT in the warmup though.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

[ QUOTE ]
It's such extreme behaviour that you'd think he'd been pushed, over-faced or just generally stressed by his "job". It's not as if those fences are overly-big or overly-spooky, they're well within his considerable capabilities. Knowing that he's had other stronger riders off, maybe a complete change of scenery would do him the world of good, so I'm with measles re hunting him. Failing that, pairs hunter trials, little team chases, anything to remind him that going forward is fun and easy and stress-free.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have found out that he was tipped up before i brought him - he was being loose jumped 1.55 oxer at the time.
Have just found that out in the last 5 minutes.
So explains a bit - but is he fixable is the question now

 

[Baydale]

He could be fixable if he can forget about whatever it is that has stressed him out. It depends how much time and money you want to spend on him but if you really rate him - and he has got a great jump - then there will be someone who could get him going xc and hunting for you.

 

[SpottedCat]

Have you had a vet have a look at him - in light of what you have just found out I'd be inclined to think just a back check probably isn't enough. Before I sent him away/hunted him/did pairs hunter trials etc, I'd want to know there was nothing odd affecting him from the tipping up, and that he had nothing like ulcers affecting him - as that stop was exactly what my horse was doing last summer, and it progressed until he would not even go over a x-pole.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

SC - how did your vet diagnose ulcers?

They are something i dont know a lot about tbh.

 

[SpottedCat]

I took him to Willesley Equine Clinic - spoke to the receptionist who booked me in for a loss of performance work up as there was nothing obviously wrong with my horse - he was still looking fit and healthy and jumping clear round BE Novice XC, it was just the SJ was getting worse and worse. I think my words were 'there is something wrong with this horse, but I don't know what it is as he looks sound and fine to me'!! Basically all summer he'd been throwing random stops in SJ (v unlike him) and it all came to a head when after doing a 1.15 tricky course at a Yogi Breisner clinic, a week later when he'd just hit novice fitness again he would not even do a x-pole.

So he was booked in for endoscopy in the morning - mild sedation and a video endoscope into the stomach, and a lameness work up in the afternoon if the endoscopy came back clear. The endoscopy showed up really bad ulcers, basically as bad as they get. Two months of heinously expensive treatment later and he is fixed and raring to go. I was worried about bilateral lameness as two vets previously had basically implied I couldn't ride him as 'he is sound'. My point was that yes, he may be sound but this is not like him! I began to believe it was my riding, but then to have such a good session at the Yogi clinic and not be able to jump a stick a week later, I decided it probably wasn't me!!

Not saying this is the problem with Robbie by any means - he may just be being a git - but before I tackled that I'd want someone who knew about competition horses to check there was no underlying cause like ulcers/lameness/nerve issues etc as the tipping up may have caused something which was never fully investigated?

The endoscopy is relatively cheap and simple - about £200 - but the treatment is cripplingly expensive so make sure you have £5K of vets fees insurance before you get it checked out - I am going to hit that limit without a doubt before the year is up and it is excluded. LittlePinkPiggies horse managed to have ulcers and a lameness issue - so more than one thing could be going on hence I would want someone seriously good to check it out.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

Ok i will speak to my vet - my dad will love the sound of that - not!

He is insured though so worth getting him checked.

 

[PaddyMonty]

Hmm. Talented but tricksy horses causing lack of confidence in rider. Now where have I come across that before?

He so reminds me of Juno, even down to the bronc reaction. Juno used to do that on landing of every fence.
Just a thought. Watched the vids inc last comp and the one thing that strikes me is the huge difference in pace and forwardness in the comp compared to the training vid.
I only mention it as Juno needs to be ridden in the pace you are competing at. If I do then all is well (most of the time). If I back the pace down to the one you approached the double in all hell brakes loose. Over jumps, backs off, ducks out, broncs. You get the idea.
I now make sure even when schooling at home I jump from a good forward comp pace. Seems to work for her.
Agree with getting him out XC. If you need a volunteer I could find you one

 

[moneypit1]

For what its worth, Fly Boy is the same. A seriously talented horse with attitide. Basically, he is now 13 and I guess will always be this way. You have to decide if this will be acceptable to you or not. It doesn't matter how good he is if this inconsistency continues. I can go out with Fly and win a 3ft 6 class easily one day and the next have a stop at jump one. Good luck with what you decide but ultimately you might have to let him go and move on. x

 

[foxy1]

I would definately go down the vet route as suggested by spottedcat; there is such a huge difference between the early competition clips (albeit green and rushing but having a go) and the bronc clip, it screams to me that it is a pain issue and he is trying to tell you something.
I would also look closely at his feet as foot pain is a frequently undiagnosed problem and that would certainly add up to pain when jumping
Although we frequently humanise horses they really do prefer to take the path of least resistance and if he is saying no to such a simple thing as jump a small filler with an obviously competant rider it has to set off alarm bells......

 

[MagicMelon]

[ QUOTE ]
But seriously he is beginning to get to me - he is just a pain the ass and im beginning to think i should just get shot off him.
He has had sooo many chances but he is inconsistent - one day he will win a disco the next not go in the ring.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im afraid I had a horse just like this - one day he'd win a BSJA class then the next he wouldnt jump the first fence! In lessons and at home he would jump anything and had so much scope. I spent 4 years on him and eventually had to admit defeat and sell him to a home who didnt compete - I think some horses just arent cut out for competing. In the end he was happier hacking and I got a horse who is perfect.