Agility

[Moobli]

I’ve recently started agility training with my collie for fun and as a bonding exercise. Is it likely to have an impact on her sheep training? I’m not using any of the same commands.

 

[sarah.oxford]

I don't think it will be a problem. I used to do a variety of activities with a previous dog including showing, obedience and agility, and there was never any confusion

 

[Moobli]

I don't think it will be a problem. I used to do a variety of activities with a previous dog including showing, obedience and agility, and there was never any confusion

Thank you

 

[Errin Paddywack]

All mine have done sheep work and agility and I don't find any problem.

 

[Moobli]

All mine have done sheep work and agility and I don't find any problem.

That’s good to hear. She’s learning both concurrently so wouldn’t want her to become confused.

 

[skinnydipper]

I read your original post before you changed it to one about agility.

You were asking for help with your collie who is stressed and snappy with your other 2 house dogs, dogs she is familiar with. I believe you said you have put her out into kennels because of the "disharmony".

I believe you also said she bit someone’s lab on the nose.

With this in mind do you think agility classes are the best choice of activity for you to share with her?

Asking her to focus on you and ignore other dogs is unlikely to change her emotions/how she feels about other dogs, which is what you should be aiming for. She needs to know that she can depend on you to keep her safe, not lead her into 'the lion's den'.

Though it is tempting to do something because it appeals to you, I think you should listen to your dog.

Something like man trailing could be a better choice to help build her confidence and bond with you.

 

[Moobli]

I read your original post before you changed it to one about agility.

You were asking for help with your collie who is stressed and snappy with your other 2 house dogs, dogs she is familiar with. I believe you said you have put her out into kennels because of the "disharmony".

I believe you also said she bit someone’s lab on the nose.

With this in mind do you think agility classes are the best way forward for her?

Asking her to focus on you and ignore other dogs is unlikely to change her emotions/how she feels about other dogs, which is what you should be aiming for. She needs to know that she can depend on you to keep her safe, not lead her into 'the lion's den'.

Though it is tempting to do something because it appeals to you, I think you should listen to your dog.

Something like man trailing could be a better choice to help build her confidence and bond with you?

Thanks for your reply. I changed it as it had no response
She was so much better at agility this week, more relaxed and didn’t snap at anyone other than curling her lip at a male who tried to sniff her behind (which she’s definitely not keen on).
She’s been back in the house for varying periods with my house dogs and I’m not allowing her to elevate her own status by sitting on the sofa and following me everywhere, instead asking her to settle on her mat. She’s very sensitive to sound, movement and light etc so I actually think kennel living for at least part of the time helps her switch off and relax so I won’t be changing that for the time being at least.
I actually think getting her to focus on me while “working” is helping her at agility training? I don’t need her to be friends with the other attending dogs, so as long as everyone has their dogs under control it’s not a problem. I’d be interested to hear your ideas for changing her emotions around strange dogs though.
To be honest, agility doesn’t appeal to me but it’s a six week fun course with no pressure and a chance to meet up with other rural people and have a little fun with our dogs. It’s not something I’m considering competing in or taking any further as I’d like to concentrate on her sheep work.

 

[Moobli]

Oh I should probably also add that our agility training is outdoors and only six dogs in the group.

 

[skinnydipper]

I’d be interested to hear your ideas for changing her emotions around strange dogs though.

As you may know my second GSD was a dog I took on who was a behavioural mess and off the scale with his reactive behaviour. Our first walk together I found I couldn't walk him down the street as he went mental lunging and barking at any people or dogs in sight. He had never been on a lead or walked and bounced up in my face like Zebedee. He had been kept in a backyard for his first 18 months, he was fearful and completely unsocialised.

Learning everything I could about dog behaviour, reactivity and aggression, with time and patience, initially taking him to areas where we could avoid other dogs outside the home (he lived in the house with my other dogs without issues) he learnt to trust and depend on me and eventually I was able to walk him off lead around and with other dogs and have him look to me for guidance if he was unsure.

He wasn't my first dog, he was my 10th, even so it was a steep learning curve.

Although I worked with him without the aid of a behaviourist, I would advise seeking the advice of a reputable behaviourist who could meet you both and give you the most appropriate advice for your dog and situation.

I’m not allowing her to elevate her own status by sitting on the sofa and following me everywhere,

I don't think it is about status more like worried and lacking confidence.

 

[KEK]

The Fenzi school has some great courses for reactivity, would recommend

 

[Morwenna]

Asking her to focus on you and ignore other dogs is unlikely to change her emotions/how she feels about other dogs, which is what you should be aiming for. She needs to know that she can depend on you to keep her safe, not lead her into 'the lion's den'.

Though it is tempting to do something because it appeals to you, I think you should listen to your dog.

Something like man trailing could be a better choice to help build her confidence and bond with you.

I love mantrailing and do it with my dog and it has been so good for her confidence. However, agility can be really good for reactive dogs. I know a few who do it and the ring becomes their ‘safe space’. They can cope with other dogs around them as they have a job to do so can focus on that rather than the other dogs and this can help them outside the ring too.

 

[Moobli]

As you may know my second GSD was a dog I took on who was a behavioural mess and off the scale with his reactive behaviour. Our first walk together I found I couldn't walk him down the street as he went mental lunging and barking at any people or dogs in sight. He had never been on a lead or walked and bounced up in my face like Zebedee. He had been kept in a backyard for his first 18 months, he was fearful and completely unsocialised.

Learning everything I could about dog behaviour, reactivity and aggression, with time and patience, initially taking him to areas where we could avoid other dogs outside the home (he lived in the house with my other dogs without issues) he learnt to trust and depend on me and eventually I was able to walk him off lead around and with other dogs and have him look to me for guidance if he was unsure.

He wasn't my first dog, he was my 10th, even so it was a steep learning curve.

Although I worked with him without the aid of a behaviourist, I would advise seeking the advice of a reputable behaviourist who could meet you both and give you the most appropriate advice for your dog and situation.



I don't think it is about status more like worried and lacking confidence.

Thanks. How exactly did he learn to trust and depend on you? My collie is absolutely fine off lead and is neutral to people and other dogs. She does her best to avoid them but will sniff politely and then move on if a dog approaches her off lead. It’s only when she’s on lead or in a situation like sitting on the sofa and another dog approaches that she snaps at them. We can now have her and another collie in the front of the Landrover together and she might curl her lip if the other dog tries to sniff her, otherwise she’s fine.

 

[skinnydipper]

I love mantrailing and do it with my dog and it has been so good for her confidence. However, agility can be really good for reactive dogs. I know a few who do it and the ring becomes their ‘safe space’. They can cope with other dogs around them as they have a job to do so can focus on that rather than the other dogs and this can help them outside the ring too.

That's interesting to know.

I started by keeping the dog under threshold and used a combination of desensitisation and counter conditioning.

I taught him to watch me if we had an unavoidable close encounter.

ETA. He also knew I had his back.

 

[KEK]

I highly recommend the Look At That game. Meant I could successfully trial my dog reactivate BC.
I think training clubs are harder than trials for a lot of dog reactivate dogs as they are often less controlled and tend to have more dogs running off.

 

[skinnydipper]

I've posted this before. I'm posting again as it may help someone struggling with a reactive dog.

I would give him his space and not force attention on him. Let him come to you if he wishes. He may just wish to be close, lie beside your chair or at your feet and not necessarily wish to be stroked. If he wants to lie in another room don't stress about it.

Somebody asked me for advice concerning a reactive dog. I will copy my reply to them here, I've changed the breed. Something in it may be useful to you.

For behaviour modification to be successful it is important that the dog is kept under threshold*. She cannot learn when she is frightened and already reacting. She sounds very stressed and I would suggest giving her a little break from her trigger (other dogs) and let her relax.

When she does go out she should not be pressured to meet and interact with other dogs.

*Below threshold is when the lab is still coping and happy to take treats. If you observe her body language and she is showing signs of stress she is over threshold. If she is barking she is way over threshold.

Her owner needs to know at what distance she becomes stressed and maintain a distance from other dogs which is greater than that. Distance is important.

# Desensitisation and counter conditioning. Use extra special treats, cooked chicken for example, and use it only to reward the desired behaviour. For example when she sees another dog at a distance she is comfortable with and doesn't react, "good girl" in a happy voice, reward with chicken and move away - not towards the other dog. Moving away is also a reward.

If another dog is approaching and it would be difficult to maintain distance, don't panic and show stress instead say (jolly voice again) "lets go" and walk/run the other way, cross the road or whatever. Make a game of it. Reward a successful escape game but not with the "very special treat", keep that for the counter conditioning.

The dog needs to know that she can trust her owner to keep her safe.

Basically what you are aiming for is for the lab to see another dog and look to her owner for her special reward. Pairing the scary thing with something positive (counter conditioning).

Gradually you will be able to decrease the distance between her and other dogs but it is important not to rush things.

In the early days I would avoid busy areas where it is more difficult to control her environment. You don't want her to be overwhelmed.

The owner might find it helpful to buy a Yellow Dog vest or leash sleeve stating that the dog needs space.

Also useful to teach is "watch me", for the times when a close encounter is unavoidable it gives the dog an alternative behaviour to perform instead of focusing on the scary thing.

# Lab's owner could enlist the help of doggy friends and set up training sessions as above.

I know from experience that behavioural modification does work. It doesn't happen overnight and your friend will need a lot of patience but she can celebrate each small success and know that by helping her dog to change her emotional state and decrease her stress, she is improving her dog's quality of life.