Agressive Horse-help!

[paintsplat05]

there's a relatively new horse at my yard in the riding school who is for sale or loan. I'm rather interested as i've ridden him in my lessons and he's perfect height wise and gives me a lot of confidence jumping. He's very well mannered on hacks and when he's outside his stable but the problems are when he's in his stable! He puts his ears back and snaps at anyone who is just walking past and I will have to tie him up just to put his hay net in or rug on, as he will swing round and try to bite. I don't smack him when he tries to bite as it makes him more agressive, but i do shout (as in 'NO!' loudly)-is this making it worse?
He's come from a local equestrian college so we don't know a lot about his history, but any tips on how i can solve the problem?

 

[dieseldog]

Don't shout. And don't go in his stable too much. He is trying to tell you he doesn't like you in there so let him have his space. Can you tie him up outside do everything you need to do and then put him back in the stable and let him get on with it. You can't cure him, so don't annoy him by giving him too much attention.

Good luck! And don't get bitten...

 

[paintsplat05]

okey dokey-only problem is his stable is on the main yard ad there are lots of kids and ponies from 9-5 for the riding school so it's not possible to tie him up outside.

 

[Honeypots]

I'd say he's unhappy about all the hussle and bussle. Is there a quieter box he can go in?

 

[paintsplat05]

not really-he was on the top livery yard but there's no space now. My parents aren't really happy with me loaning him if i won't be able to enjoy spending time safely with him, but even if i don't loan him i'd still like to make him happier.

 

[debradley]

I'd be inclined to agree, sounds like if he's on the main part of the yard he's having a lot of intrusion and not a lot of rest. I'd ask if there was a quieter more private stable he could move to and perhaps turn him out to a small paddock whilst you needed to do all the stuff in his stable. You will probably never cure it but he may become less grouchy if he's given the opportunity to rest.

 

[Maesfen]

Is he like it all the time or only if he has food about?
Reason I ask is one of my horses went with his owner to so called equine college. He had only been there 3 weeks and he changed out of all recognition, became very aggressive and grumpy towards everyone, something he has never been. All vet checks ok, just a very unhappy horse with an owner (she had had him over two years by then) in tears because 'her' horse had vanished to replaced by a monster. He was that bad, the college evicted him on reasons of safety of the other pupils! Turns out this big IDxTB cob had been restricted to just 3 Kgs of haylage which had to last him from breakfast to tea and work in between with no turnout, then only given the same to last him all night too! Poor horse was starving hungry, no wonder he got bolshy! I had him back here (not far from the college so she could still come and ride him), he had been gone for ten years and he relaxed as soon as he walked on the yard again and we never had a problem with him again other than pulling faces as you left him from giving a feed as if to say 'this is mine, now out please'. So, perhaps he has been severely restricted too with his feed, fed up with students crawling all over him all day too and he just needs to be able to chill out a bit with no pressure and a suitable feed and turnout regime to become a normal horse again.
I do hope it's something as simple as that. Can you give him lots of 'me time', take him grazing in hand, letting him relax and begin to trust you, things like that, not just every time you are there to work him hard? It might make a difference. Until he's changed for the better - and I'm sure he will given time and patient handling - perhaps as someone else said, do everything to the box with him outside so that when you put him back in, his box is his castle and haven of peace. If he's started taking a swipe at anyone that goes past and bearing in mind there are children on the yard, it might be an idea to get him a grill for his door during the day; it could come down for the night when everyone has gone home.

 

[Tia]

I'm the total opposite to DD - I never ever ignore behaviour, whether it be good or bad behaviour. No way would I tolerate a horse lunging at me or trying to bite me and do nothing as a reprimand. Yes I would shout "NO!" at it, each and every time it tried to bite. I would back this up with doing loads and loads of handling within the stable - using kindness as well as firmness.

Biting and kicking are certainly things which I never turn a blind eye to them on my yard.

 

[mickey]

I've had my horse for 7 yrs (sice he was 4) and he behaves (and always has behaved) in the way you have decribed. He is a very brave, confident type of horse, you have to earn his respect. He has always been great to ride, learns quckly, can be sharp but does not buck/rear/nap or misbehave.

However, in the stable he has always been prone to pull horrendous faces, snap his teeth together with his ears pinned back. He especially hates people standing near his box looking in at him. I personally believe his box is what he sees as his territory and he feels threatened when people are looking in at him. Also I try to remember that standing square on to a horse's front and looking directly in the eyes can be seen as a threatening pose by the horse. Similarly, if you stand right in front of a horse presumably it has limited vision of you and that could cause anxiety.

Over the years I have spent a lot of one to one time with him and done some basic groundwork exercises to establish my territory over his. He has been trained not to pull or tow me in hand, to move over away from pressure (sideways) when I ask and to go backwards from the door etc when I enter the stable. In essence he has become respectful of me and I can do everything I need to do with him on the ground. If he ever actually bites me he will get a slap or a notable reprimand, just one instant reaction though (It's no use disciplining a horse 1 minute after the unwanted behaviour took place). I also have my elbow in front of me when fastening rugs at the front etc, so he will get a nudge on that if he tries to bite me.
I am never aggressive with him, I don't believe in shouting or waving my arms in the air. But you can't be entirely passive and pushed around by a horse with a strong character, you have to be confident and calm and do what you need to do. If you go to do something with a horse like this, it pulls a face and you run away then it is learning that pulling faces gets it what it wants - no you in the stable! Be careful not to a reinforce a problem in this way.

I agree that a horse without forage in constant (or almost constant supply) could become agitated and aggressive.

Another thing to watch is to see how this horse behaves with different individuals. My horse is happiest with calm, confident, non aggressive people. He is worse with people that are more highly strung and more likely to shout etc, and similarly, if someone is scared of him he is worse.

TIme is the key here, and trust, and building a relationship that is based upon you respecting this horse and the horse respecting you. If this were my horse, I'd get someone out to give me an intro into how to safely use groundwork exercises. I'd also consider handling issues (maybe staff/handlers are making him worse), nutrition issues, and any physical problems.

Sorry for the length of this reply. But good luck and I would be interested to hear how things progress.

 

[colleenmurtagh1]

Im with tia on this one baa baa !!

I wouldnt tolerate biting or lunging at me either , Would do exactly what tia has said ( im a sheep and proud of it

)

You have said yourslf you have no other alternative than to work with this horse , thats if you are wanting to loan it .

 

[MagicMelon]

Try and turn him out more IMO. Some horses do get narky if stabled as its not exactly fun for them! One of mine used to nip, I used to make a really high pitched sound and clapped my hands loudly if he tried it - like that woman does with those barking dogs on that TV programme! It surprises them enough that they think twice to doing it again. Think it works better than being agressive with them because some can get seriously cranky!

 

[lilpinkso]

does he have plenty of turnout? does he socialise with other horses? can he see other horses from his stable? is he overworked? does he have hay available to him at all times whilst in the stable?

make sure he has plenty of turnout, chances are he has been overworked and kept in for too long at some point. when he is in, give him more hay than he can eat - put the net in before he comes in. initially you want to avoid the confrontation, ignoring it won't do any good but neither will shouting at him. (rock and hard place comes to mind).

don't accept his behaviour as being his personality, don't 'live with it', he needs help so he can be content, it sounds like he is generally a very mild mannered chap, if he is only a problem in the stable it makes this a much easier problem to solve because the problem is isolated to one area.

without knowing full details it's hard to advise but you could try ground working him with some simple exercises/games, for instance 'move over' for a start, then give him more to think about and establish a trust and you as the leader. if possible move to doing these exercises in a more confined space - maybe a larger stable if poss, the important part being that it is not HIS stable and there is no food available. when he is trusting, walk him into his own stable and back out again, if he remains of a cheery disposition at all times reward him, (if with a treat, do it outside the stable) walk him into his stable again, gradually staying longer and doing the exercises. loose schooling is extremely effective with aggressive horses, but you must ensure you 'send ' the horse away and only allow him to stop when you are ready and send away if he shows any negative behaviour towards you.

i think you would need to be able to commit an amount of time to this horse if you were to buy/loan him, too many horses are unhappy because people don't have the time or money to help them... if you are willing, then i say go for it and good luck!