Piglet
Well-Known Member
As above really, which offers more protection, opinions please before I splurge out shed loads of money!!
Airowear Body Protectors V Point 2 Air Vests
- Thread starter Piglet
- Start date
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Body protector every time there will be times when an air jacket will not trigger and on the whole these are when you need it most.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Says the man who's never ridden in one
From someone who has hunted in one and fallen off several times in one, an air jacket of whichever brand every single time for me.
Do remember that you can't event in an air jacket alone, so if you plan to event you need to buy the body protector if you can only afford one or the other.
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popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Says the man who's never ridden in one
From someone who has hunted in one and fallen off several times in one, an air jacket of whichever brand every single time for me.
Do remember that you can't event in an air jacket alone, so if you plan to event you need to buy the body protector if you can only afford one or the other.
So what do you do when your horse rolls over you still in the saddle! it happens. You sort of pointed to my reasoning yourself there is no horse sport where BPs are mandated(not just BE) that accepts just an airjacket perhaps you need to ask why! Dont make unfounded assumptions about others riding either.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Do tell. Have you ever ridden in one for a couple of hours at a time? Fallen off in one at speed or from height?
You have been against them since they were first on the market. You posted against them on the last thread I remember telling porkies about P2's financial situation
These threads usually result in recommendation after recommendation from people who have actually used one. I can't remember a single person who has used one who has given up and recommends going back to a body protector.
There are only a miniscule percentage of falls where the jacket would not go off. The protection it offers the rest of the time is so great that, for me, it far outweighs any benefit that a body protector would give in any such fall.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Piglet, specifically:
An air jacket protects the neck and the lower back which are not covered by a body protector. This is a huge benefit, to me.
It has much greater cushioning in the event of a fall from height or at speed or slamming into an obstacle. You are unlikely to bounce and laugh when falling onto tarmac in a BP, yet that is what I did in an air jacket.
I find them much more comfortable and less restrictive than a body protector.
An air jacket protects the neck and the lower back which are not covered by a body protector. This is a huge benefit, to me.
It has much greater cushioning in the event of a fall from height or at speed or slamming into an obstacle. You are unlikely to bounce and laugh when falling onto tarmac in a BP, yet that is what I did in an air jacket.
I find them much more comfortable and less restrictive than a body protector.
Meredith
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Agreed
Piglet
Well-Known Member
Thank you guys, opinions very much appreciated. I was definitely airing towards the air vest I just had heard good things about the BP.
asmp
Well-Known Member
And just to throw a spanner into the works, on the last thread here about air jackets, everyone seemed to prefer Hit Air
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Meredith
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Well that's not true, because I don't
Nor me. I have a Helite gilet.
GTRJazz
Well-Known Member
I have a Airowear body protector they are Ok but not much good if you fall on your side, just bought a Racesafe protector to replace it , much better and you do not know you have it on it is so comfy. The Mrs won a Point two Air vest at Badminton and we have never used it not sure why. Expect I will in the spring when I am doing more cross country.
Air jackets are not as good in the case of a fast rotational fall where you may still be in the saddle, I had one but jumped clear, just.
Air jackets are not as good in the case of a fast rotational fall where you may still be in the saddle, I had one but jumped clear, just.
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Piglet
Well-Known Member
Yup that is the one I am going for, it seems to be a bit neater fitting and not as baggy. It will be for general everyday riding and competing.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
See you always avoid the ultimate question YCBM how can you advise people to use an air jacket instead of a BP as they do not give the same degree of protection . They are more comfortable to wear thats a given however with that comes a downside and that is that they are not infallible and more likely to fail in the most injury sustaining situations if you dont agree please show me the evidence that they always work as I know of several occassions when they havent. As I said ask yourself why they are not allowed in competitition on their own and why they have never passed any BETA testing. As I see it and its nothing to do with P2 they are like not using contraception when you dont want a baby many times you wont get pregnant but on a small percentage of times you will.
OP if protection in all situations is important to you wear a BP and to be honest the Racesafe is about the best for comfort in everyday use. If your comfort is more important than total safety go with any of the air jackets but be aware of the risk involved in that choice as it would be negligent not to make a user aware.
OP if protection in all situations is important to you wear a BP and to be honest the Racesafe is about the best for comfort in everyday use. If your comfort is more important than total safety go with any of the air jackets but be aware of the risk involved in that choice as it would be negligent not to make a user aware.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
The question is what gives the most protection.
The answer is a body protector + an air jacket (although some may disputes that)
Followed by a body protector alone
Followed by an air jacket
Governing bodies do not allow riders to go xc in just an air jacket and there is a bloody good safety reason for that.
Personally I hate riding in body protectors and, as I no longer event myself, choose to wear an air jacket on its own in certain situations. I do it because it is far more comfy and less restrictive and for the type of fall Im more likely to encounter should offer me some protection. But its a risk balance and I would never try and convince anyone its the most protective option!
The answer is a body protector + an air jacket (although some may disputes that)
Followed by a body protector alone
Followed by an air jacket
Governing bodies do not allow riders to go xc in just an air jacket and there is a bloody good safety reason for that.
Personally I hate riding in body protectors and, as I no longer event myself, choose to wear an air jacket on its own in certain situations. I do it because it is far more comfy and less restrictive and for the type of fall Im more likely to encounter should offer me some protection. But its a risk balance and I would never try and convince anyone its the most protective option!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
but unless Im wearing an exo a BP isn't going to do much to help me if the horse rolls over me either?
They are allowed in competitions on their own unless you are going XC? Surely everything is a risk/benefit analysis the same as not using contraception
.
I currently have functioning versions of neither, I struggle to wear a BP for longer than an XC round (and racesafes dont really fit me, boob issues ) so if and when I do get another horse from a day to day point of view I will certainly be exploring the air jacket route. I don't think just because they don't do some things doesn't mean they don't have a helpful place.
They are allowed in competitions on their own unless you are going XC? Surely everything is a risk/benefit analysis the same as not using contraception
. I currently have functioning versions of neither, I struggle to wear a BP for longer than an XC round (and racesafes dont really fit me, boob issues
) so if and when I do get another horse from a day to day point of view I will certainly be exploring the air jacket route. I don't think just because they don't do some things doesn't mean they don't have a helpful place.popsdosh
Well-Known Member
but unless Im wearing an exo a BP isn't going to do much to help me if the horse rolls over me either?
They are allowed in competitions on their own unless you are going XC? Surely everything is a risk/benefit analysis the same as not using contraception
I currently have functioning versions of neither, I struggle to wear a BP for longer than an XC round (and racesafes dont really fit me, boob issues
See this is my argument I have never said that they dont have a use even though a certain poster tries to make out to the contrary . BPs actually offer a fair amount of protection if a horse rolls over you thats why they have been tested to that level. IHWs list just about sums up the risk analysis. There is nothing an air jacket protects you from that a BP wont but that cannot be said the other way round as there is always a condition that has to be met before the protection is of any use!
The start of your third Paragragh above made me chuckle wasnt sure what you were talking about
ycbm
Overwhelmed
This list isn't correct. The first is right bit what comes second depends entirely on the fall. In a fall directly onto the end of your spine, a body protector is too short to offer any protection at all. If you fall flat on your back onto tarmac or concrete, you'd be badly winded in a BP and bounce in an air jacket. In a fall where you spin into a fence backwards and connect with your neck, a BP is again useless. In a fall into something pointed, you'd be more protected by a BP. And so on.
Who does?
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popsdosh
Well-Known Member
So are you competing CC at any level, Team chasing ,P to p or Driving . Just pointing out if you are you will need a BP as well
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I would choose to wear an air jacket in a crush fall over a body protector. If fitted correctly, the air creates a semi-rigid cage, which then disperses pressure out over the whole jacket. Yes, only if it is blown up, but it is actually very difficult to fall in any way at all, with or without the horse, without it going off, as this clip shows:
https://youtu.be/e7vy78XgcLU
Except for all the areas, including your neck and the end of your spine, which a BP does not cover. Just take a look at one PD, how can you even think of making that assertion?
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popsdosh
Well-Known Member
...
Oh dear you really do not know how the foam in a BP is designed to disperse the impact do you . The c02 in a jacket does not absorb as much pressure loading .Whatever you wear you are the meat in the sandwich ! Also if you think that air? is the best shock absorber why are helmets not designed with an internal airbag lining as they would certainly be more comfortable for a lot of riders.
If you are so sure of your assumptions please enlighten us as to why the air jackets are not carrying a BETA tested label .
....
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Dupe
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ycbm
Overwhelmed
I think it is you who does not understand how pressurised CO2 in an airbag works. Have you even looked at the video? Does she look like 'meat in a sandwich'? She isn't even badly winded, she moves immediately the horse rolls off her.
Have you ever ridden in one? Have you ever fallen off in one? You have declined to answer those questions.
KEP hats are fully tested and you could not pay me to ride in one. Testing is not the be all and end all. There is no suitable testing standard for air jackets as far as I am aware. That does not mean that they are not effective. Most of the kit I ride in has no safety standard, including mission critical stuff like girths.
Your design skills are certainly novel if you think there is any way pressurised CO2 three or four inches thick could be used inside a rigid helmet
Though I was interested to see not long ago the prototype of an air hat for bike riders that operated when it sensed a lack of balance.
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popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Well there are very good testing standards for BPs and air jackets cannot pass them so there is a tale. I have never said they dont have a place just dont bet your life on it.;
Just for the record what is that rider wearing UNDER THE AIR JACKET!!!! What proof do you have that the air jacket is the reason she was not injured LOL lot of assumptions you make.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I'm aware of a number of riders who have been killed in crush falls wearing a BP alone, and none who have been killed wearing an air jacket. Since most riders now wear them at top level, and still have rotation falls, I think that tells its own story.
I didn't say the air jacket was the proof she was not injured. Though I think there are plenty of safety specialists and A&E consultants who will. I said I personally would trust my life in a crush fall to an air jacket before I would a BP. And pointed you to the video to explain why. You obviously aren't seeing what I am seeing in that video.
And I think we have confirmed that you have never ridden in, never mind fallen off in, an air jacket, haven't we?
But it's not going to stop you telling people they are safer in a BP if they choose to ride in only one of the two, is it
?Pass me the popcorn, someone.
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Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I have just seen that Aerowear is now doing a body protector with air vest all in one...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airowear...hash=item1ed5934749:m:mneVBWjOX0SizCNfKqQQVTQ
Best of both! Up to standard too.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airowear...hash=item1ed5934749:m:mneVBWjOX0SizCNfKqQQVTQ
Best of both! Up to standard too.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
I'm aware of a number of riders who have been killed in crush falls wearing a BP alone, and none who have been killed wearing an air jacket. Since most riders now wear them at top level, and still have rotation falls, I think that tells its own story.
I didn't say the air jacket was the proof she was not injured. Though I think there are plenty of safety specialists and A&E consultants who will. I said I personally would trust my life in a crush fall to an air jacket before I would a BP. And pointed you to the video to explain why. You obviously aren't seeing what I am seeing in that video.
And I think we have confirmed that you have never ridden in, never mind fallen off in, an air jacket, haven't we?
But it's not going to stop you telling people they are safer in a BP if they choose to ride in only one of the two, is it
Pass me the popcorn, someone.
I dont see the point in if I have ever worn one. However I have had a horse roll over me in a high speed fall on a road and the only bits of me that didnt ache were those inside the Racesafe BP. However I do know for certain if I had been wearing an air Jacket instead that would not have been the case as it would not have triggered with me still firmly in the saddle.
Do you know what the figure(BE fall reports) of non deployment of air jackets at BE is as I guess you wont believe it. Lets see what you come up with first .
OH and not to put out false information the last rider Killed in a BE fall was wearing an air jacket . Jourdain Macdonald as was the previous fatality .
also as you will see from the photo taken on the day this young lady also was wearing a Air jacket http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...ing-accident-australia-caitlyn-fischer-534054
Do some research before you make claims to try and belittle others ! I really thought you had got over your childish tendencies but I will let others judge that.
Oh answer to the question !!! only in 94% of falls at BE did the air jacket inflate when it should have done and that does not account for late inflation ie after the impact. That and other information is readily available on the equestrian medical ass web site
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Translationsneeded
Well-Known Member
Have fallen a few times in just a back protector, just a few bruises. Fell off in a very little accident in air jacket and broke my back in 4 places. No other bruises anywhere tho. For me I couldn’t trust just an air jacket again and feel I put myself at risk. I would now use a back protector or both.
Just my experience tho...
Just my experience tho...
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Apart from if you fall off XC you cannot take the air jacket off part and continue (because there is a racesafe version of this too) and body protector foam usually needs replacing before air bags do, which might make a difference if it is an investment purchase.
I was unaware that body protectors were tested for their effectiveness against crush injuries, Beta doesn't say so and I rather thought that was the whole reason the exo was developed. I can't quite envisage how a flexible foam body protector is going to stop me being squashed by 500kg of horse?
Driving regulations are funny, you can wear what you want, even snowboarding back protectors if you like, you just have to have 'something'.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Very good point. £70 to return an air jacket to an 'as new' state.
I have checked the standard and I don't believe they are. It appears to be spot testing only.