Alec swan..can we have an update on the returnedcocker

[Bellasophia]

I'd love to hear how the dog turned out after it came back to you to have its errant ways sorted out.Has he gone back home now?how did it all work out?

 

[Alec Swan]

I'd love to hear how the dog turned out after it came back to you to have its errant ways sorted out.Has he gone back home now?how did it all work out?

I'm so sorry, I've only just noticed this! Belle came back (she'd been sold about six months previously), and she stepped straight back in to her pack position, she had words with Swift, she put Ward the dog pup in his place, she went all gooey eyed over the sheepdog Joe (she's a tart), accepted that Sally is still top dog, and she still views Dave the lurcher as a lout, and she's right.

She came back because she's been whining when she's sitting in front of her owner when he's shooting driven game. Some find a whining dog intolerable, and I'm amongst them. Her steadiness wasn't what it might be, when she came back, but with a bit of grumbling, and an eventual scruffing, she's promised to be good.

Running-in and general unsteadiness is easily cured. Whining at the peg, isn't. Once a dog has started whining I've never known it effectively cured. They don't actually know that they're doing it. It's better to prevent it happening, like a great many canine faults, rather than attempting to 'cure' it.

I strongly suspect that Belle will again be up for sale, which is a pity, as she's a lovely dog, in every other way. I'm not really sure where we go with her. She can stay here until she's sold, but as he's allowed her to establish a bad habit, one that I can't cure, she's now seriously devalued.

Not the best news, but it's the way it is. The answer, currently, is 'Don't know'! Thanks for your interest, just the same!

Alec.

 

[Bellasophia]

Thanks Alec,it's a fascinating world you live in .You should write a book. You did promise to update us and I'd been looking for such.I was wondering if she was happier to be back in a working pack or whether she missed her old home. Dothese working dogs live for their job and routine ,or for their owner ,like a pet dog?

 

[druid]

Would she be any use for some one looking to dog in or rough shoot over her?

My own springer used to whine on the peg but grew out of it entirely about 3yo. I never tried to correct him for it.

 

[Alec Swan]

Would she be any use for some one looking to dog in or rough shoot over her?

My own springer used to whine on the peg but grew out of it entirely about 3yo. I never tried to correct him for it.

Yes, she only whines when she's seated, which she needs to be during a drive. When she's hunting in front of the gun, she's totally silent. She really is a lovely dog, it's just that the guy who owns her now, can't cope with it, and neither could I! I suspect that she'll stay with me now until we find another buyer, either one who only shoots walked up game, or someone who will put up with it. Whilst the guy says that money isn't the point of it, I sold him a valuable and expensive dog, and now she's worth considerably less. I won't do the wrong thing for the owner, but I'm not too sure of the way forward, yet!

It's interesting that your dog 'grew out of' the habit. I wonder if the whining is, whilst no more than frustration, a phase. I'm not sure. I wonder if Dry Rot will pick up on this thread. I'd like to hear his views.

Alec.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I've had a few whining pups, all but one of them grew out of it by the time they hit three and the one that didn't was mums lap dog who objected to everything!

I always thing its a confidence thing, our current pup whines when walking but she spent her first four weeks with us house down with Kennel Cough and worms. When we started going into the big wide world she started doing it.


Also.Dry Rot is a Guy? I always had him as a Woman! :/

 

[Alec Swan]

……..


Also.Dry Rot is a Guy? I always had him as a Woman! :/

That'll cheer him up, no end!

Alec.

 

[Teaselmeg]

Different context, but my Teasel who does film/TV work would stay when asked on set, but last year if I didn't 'pay' her after about 30/40 seconds she would yap at me. She had always been really good before staying for several minutes, so somewhere along the line I had rewarded her too quickly and she was expecting it.

We went back to basics, asking her to stand for 5 seconds, reward, then 10, reward then 20 etc etc and now we are back to her being solid in her stay, no demanding for payment. Depending on what your dog finds rewarding ( release to go/praise etc ?) might be worth a try ?

 

[druid]

Mine is Badgercourt lines so notorious for being hot and more trialling than working lines. The young pup is Edwardiana/Buccleuch and much less tense and liable to whine

 

[Alec Swan]

Different context, but my Teasel who does film/TV work would stay when asked on set, but last year if I didn't 'pay' her after about 30/40 seconds she would yap at me. She had always been really good before staying for several minutes, so somewhere along the line I had rewarded her too quickly and she was expecting it.

We went back to basics, asking her to stand for 5 seconds, reward, then 10, reward then 20 etc etc and now we are back to her being solid in her stay, no demanding for payment. Depending on what your dog finds rewarding ( release to go/praise etc ?) might be worth a try ?

The problem, in the case of Belle I suspect and probably others too, is that her new owner has, as you say, rewarded her patience by allowing her to retrieve every bird, and immediately following the end of every drive. Belle needs to go back to the stage where she viewed 'work' as a privilege, rather than a 'right'.

Alec.

 

[poiuytrewq]

So how would you prevent a problem like this occurring in the first place?

 

[Alec Swan]

So how would you prevent a problem like this occurring in the first place?

Perhaps 'prevent' wasn't the right word, or at least doesn't encompass the whole answer. 'Prevention' by leaving the dog seated and collecting the dead game, ourselves, certainly whilst they're young, so that they aren't waiting for the gun to go back in its slip, teaches the dog, whilst still young enough to absorb training, that work is a privilege. 'If' a dog starts, then focus and scolding can delay the onset of the habit, though in truth, once established, or if the dog is determined, then stopping it is probably just about impossible.

There are also those dogs, I feel certain, that will have a predisposition to whining at a peg, and for the most determined and it's part of the animals frame of mind, then that's what they're going to do. I have another Cocker here, who whilst silent at a peg, and whilst retrieving, when she's set off to hunt for live and un-shot game, if she's wound up, she will yap through the first few steps. Again, it's irritating, and to be lived with, rather than corrected.

All so often I think that it's brought about by a young dog being allowed to do too much, too soon. It's so tempting with particularly keen and forward young dogs to allow them to express themselves fully at too young an age, and yet again, it can be that freedom which builds up a degree of frustration. That's what I think!

Alec.

 

[madmav]

That'll cheer him up, no end!

Alec.

Apart from yourself who signs with the obviously male name, Alec, I almost always assume posters are middle-aged women or young teenage girls. So that's sexist/ageist of me.

 

[Alec Swan]

Apart from yourself who signs with the obviously male name, Alec, I almost always assume posters are middle-aged women or young teenage girls. So that's sexist/ageist of me.

I wouldn't worry too much, D_R has broad shoulders!! And yes, I'm a bloke too!

I was thinking that it may be an idea to ask of Admin if, as a part of our Profile, there should be the simple question Sex. ….. but then it wouldn't be long before someone put a resounding YES!!

I will admit that I've formed views on posters, as we tend to do, and then seen their pics in the ex-names to faces section, and been staggered at their youth. Many have seemed older than their years.

Alec.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Well in real life I keep getting id and I'm 29 this year.....

 

[horsies4coursies]

glad i'm not the only one who thought Dry Rot was female - sorry Dry Rot my bad -

 

[Clodagh]

When we picked up our lab puppy, the breeder said she wouldn't take ours as first pick as it was vocal and she felt it would whine on the peg. We did have first pick but it was for my son and he was adamant he wanted this one. He beats mainly so it wouldn't be the end of the world anyway.
All this season she has been with me around or behind the guns but hasn't yet done anything. She did whine quite a bit to start with but then had a lightbulb moment that if she was quiet she could hear what was going on. She still, on the first drive. whines while waiting for the first birds to come over, which is annoying, but I just ignore it.
I can still see my brothers dog lying pressed to the ground whining, he used to kick it, which never stopped the whine but just made the dog neurotic. I agree once it is ingrained you have to either live with it or get rid of the dog.

 

[druid]

Yes, she only whines when she's seated, which she needs to be during a drive. When she's hunting in front of the gun, she's totally silent. She really is a lovely dog, it's just that the guy who owns her now, can't cope with it, and neither could I! I suspect that she'll stay with me now until we find another buyer, either one who only shoots walked up game, or someone who will put up with it. Whilst the guy says that money isn't the point of it, I sold him a valuable and expensive dog, and now she's worth considerably less. I won't do the wrong thing for the owner, but I'm not too sure of the way forward, yet!

It's interesting that your dog 'grew out of' the habit. I wonder if the whining is, whilst no more than frustration, a phase. I'm not sure. I wonder if Dry Rot will pick up on this thread. I'd like to hear his views.

Alec.

I did use a vibration collar to shut up one that whined incessantly in the car because it's so bloody annoying. The vibration seemed to snap her out of it. Not sure it would work on a peg. With the spaniel I just ignored him totally, didn't send him for a single bird. I usually have 2/3 on the peg with me so he wouldn't do any picking at all until we let them all rake after runners and obvious birds were accounted for. Maybe never getting sent during drives or for anything he could see/mark meant whining didn't get him anywhere or anything good. Or maybe it took the pressure off. He's an odd dog, hard as nails to correct and train but can be very soft in other ways.

 

[paulineh]

I once had a Spaniel that started to whin on the peg so I took it on the beat line . To start with on the lead only allowing it to work on the last drive ,then as the season went on it was allowed to work on more drives. After one season doing this it stopped whinnying. On its second season and with some work during the summer it was allowed back on the peg never had a whin from it again.

Maybe the Cocker would be better I the beat line and not on a peg.