Alfalfa

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FfionWinnie

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Has anyone found feeding a high rate of alfalfa causes their horse to be irritable.

Just read an article which suggests it can cause kidney stress, crankiness and therefore a sore back.

Interested to hear any experiences.
 
Hiya my mare can't have alfalfa because she has liver damage so the vet said it's best we avoid it and it's really narrows down what you can feed as so much has alfalfa in it. I know a lot of people that have had problems with their horses took them off alfalfa and their behaviour changed completely
 
Thanks. She already can't have most things due to PSSM and is performing well on it but she's not happy and doesn't like the saddle or rugs going on and she didn't used to be like this, I've only owned her a year so between that and the PSSM it's really hard to work out what's normal for her, I've been blaming hormones for the crabbiness. She's not girthy and looking and feeling amazing but I know there is something, when I read this article it sounded plausible but there's not much info out there.

Going to cut it out and see what happens...
 
my horse seemed to be itchy when she was on it last year, so I stopped it but she's on it again this year and she is fine!

I think her issue was with having cushings and trying to get her levels of medicine right!! but it just coincided with being fed alfalfa.
 
Neither of our Appy's can tolerate even small amounts of alfalfa, they both become very difficult to handle and are obviously unhappy. If anything needs any extra we tend to feed grass nuts, although the draft mare can't cope with those, so she just has mountains of forage!
 
It made my horse behave like he was on speed! Speedi beet has proved to be a much safer alternative and it is avoided at all costs!
 
I used to swear by the stuff (alpha a oil) for keeping condition on my Anglo but we discovered my old fella is intollerant, thought he had the worst sweet itch known to man and was almost pts till i saw a post on here warning of the effects, cut it out of his diet and he's like a new horse! no longer itchy and has a completely new lease of life full of energy! (unfortunatly for his poor loaner who wanted the lazy plod that he was on alpha lol) I also found when I stopped feeding it to my good doers that 2 of the 3 actually gained even more weight!? and i really struggled to keep the weight off in summer despite them receiving no hard feed atall
 
I credit alfa a with keeping my mare going on for so long, but it brought my gelding out in itchy hives and sent my youngest into a low obit, he was so hyper he was unridable for about a week. When it suits its great, when it doesn't its best avoided.
 
Thanks this is all really interesting. She IS itchy but I think she always has been. I know I didn't feed alfalfa from the start but I can't remember when I introduced it exactly. However I increased it a lot recently because I cut out something else that didn't suit.

I am pretty sure she had not eaten hard feed in her life when I bought her as she didn't know what to do with it.

She is on adlib hay. Copra and alfalfa pellets were the only things I was giving on top of that. She's in hard work so hay isn't enough.

I'm not sure if grass pellets would be any better.
 
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Im sure I also read it doesnt suit some mares as it is oestrogenic & causes heightened seasons issues/hormonal spikes. This was a couple of years ago when i was researching it as it wasnt suiting my mare at the time so info could have changed etc.
 
No, unfortunately micronised linseed is the thing I cut out and she was so much better under saddle within 24 hours. It's too high in NSCs for her.

I gave her extra copra today and most of it was on the ground when I left for work so apparently she prefers the alfalfa - but the copra is what keeps her well. It's a blooming nightmare knowing what to do next. Cutting the linseed and increasing the copra made her like a normal horse to ride, previously she didn't feel right until she was well worked in. Now I get on and she's able to work normally straight away (although I still do my careful warm up anyway!).

She can't have any cereal, everything has to be ultra low sugar and starch. Nearly everything contains too much sugar, even feeds supposedly designed for "azotoria prone" horses generally have wheat and molasses in them.
 
I would say that if you do phase it out, Make sure you give it a good couple of weeks to clear the system before deciding if it has worked or not. It took my youngster Moses nearly three weeks to calm down after I stopped feeding it. On another note I feed calm and conditioner If I want to add weight, Allen and Page do a range of soakable feeds, I am currently using their fast fibre , which I find very useful.
 
NeverEver said:
Im sure I also read it doesnt suit some mares as it is oestrogenic & causes heightened seasons issues/hormonal spikes. This was a couple of years ago when i was researching it as it wasnt suiting my mare at the time so info could have changed etc.
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Well that would make sense too as it appeared to me to be hormonal when it kicked off.

On one hand I would be so happy if it was the cause (never mind the fact she's getting a new saddle just in case it's a saddle issue - I really don't think it is because I cannot believe she had better fitting saddles in Ireland than she does now and she wasn't bothered about it then) on the other I don't know what to try feeding her next.

Just when I thought I was on top of the PSSM, something else will become apparent. Keeps me on my toes eh!
 
Some horses seem to be truly intolerant to alfalfa (hives). Mine fortunately isn't. But you should be aware of the nutritional makeup of alfalfa. It contains a fairly high amount of quality protein (which is a good thing, in most cases), but is also high in calcium. Calcium should be fed in proportion to phosphorus and magnesium (about a 3:1 ratio for Ca:P and about 2:1 Ca:Mg). A kilo of alfalfa pellets would supply 15g of calcium, but only 3g of P and Mg. It so happens that copra is high in phosphorus (relative to calcium), so depending on how much you feed of each, you may strike and acceptable balance between Ca and P. But it doesn't sound like you are supplementing any magnesium (which is often low in hay anyway), so it may well be possible that your ration is short on magnesium.

Grass pellets would have less protein, lower calcium but potentially higher sugar levels than the alfalfa pellets. You could try either leaving out the alfalfa (or replacing with grass pellets), or supplementing some magnesium (magnesium oxide is cheap and easy) to see if it makes a difference.

My horse is one who has no adverse reactions to alfalfa. But I only feed it in small amounts (he doesn't need the extra calories from large bucket feeds), so mineral (im)balance isn't really a consideration.
 
Sukistokes2 said:
I would say that if you do phase it out, Make sure you give it a good couple of weeks to clear the system before deciding if it has worked or not. It took my youngster Moses nearly three weeks to calm down after I stopped feeding it. On another note I feed calm and conditioner If I want to add weight, Allen and Page do a range of soakable feeds, I am currently using their fast fibre , which I find very useful.
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Thanks. I have cut it out today. I've not found a preprepared feed which is suitable for her. There are so many things she can't have.
 
No rice bran is also not suitable. I don't fancy oil since the micronised didn't suit her despite it apparently suiting plenty of other PSSM horses. Appreciate the suggestions!
 
I can see where your query has come from. I moved mine from unmollased beet to alfalfa pellets and saw considerable improvement gut wise. All mine are on it and just cannot see any side effects. I wonder if some of the research and comments come from US people who use alfalfa hay and therefore a much higher quantity than a few dengie pellets?

Have you considered magox? It can act as an irritant. If you are feeding it you could try a slight reduction?
Also alcar. I have put 2 on alcar recenty. The probably PSSM. He is happy on it, no side effect and wanders along quite calmly half asleep.

I also put my PPID haflinger on it (suggested on ECIR group) I thought it may improve his hind quarter muscles. I am reducing the dose daily and may have to give up. It has certainly improved his movement, however he has spring grass madness as a result. He is walking around the yard looking totally mad or happy whichever way you look at it. So alcar seems to affect horses quite differently as people have been commenting on the PSSM forum. Maybe it could be a problem for Daisy?

I wouldn't have a clue what else to feed. I struggled to find anything other than alfalfa and copra. You could try the Saracan website as they have the KER products and one of their feeds may be suitable.
 
Do be careful with soya, it is another phyto-oestrogen, which may not be suitable for a hormonal mare. Grass nuts have been fine for all of ours, except the draught mare who became hot and uncomfortable and lost weight on them!
 
http://www.dodsonandhorrellpetfood.co.uk/ers-pellets

this is palatable, can be soaked to go with copra etc. There is a spec on this page, not sure if it is within your limits but it may work due to her constant exercising?

as for the itchiness, are you sure it is caused by feed? Like me I guess you are probably overugging and it could be caused from that. If it is I cannot see a solution.
 
I think she's spookier off the alcar. I don't think there's a difference in performance but I have a lesson on Wed so that might help me decide.

I've had to reduce the mag ox a bit as pro earth is out of stock til the end of the week and I'm getting low. I will keep that in mind if she does get cheerier Paddy.

I've spent all summer thinking it was hormonal and having to face the fact that it probably isn't (although hormones could be exacerbated by or exacerbating it!).

I'm sure it's not the PSSM tho, she is going amazingly well and isn't stiff at all.
 
paddy555 said:
http://www.dodsonandhorrellpetfood.co.uk/ers-pellets

this is palatable, can be soaked to go with copra etc. There is a spec on this page, not sure if it is within your limits but it may work due to her constant exercising?

as for the itchiness, are you sure it is caused by feed? Like me I guess you are probably overugging and it could be caused from that. If it is I cannot see a solution.
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Really I think ERS pellets are for RER horses not PSSM horses. I wasn't impressed when I read the extended list of ingredients. From memory I think wheat feed and oat feed is the first or second ingredient. I could add grass nuts and or speedibeet and have a similar result without the junk.

She does the itching in the trailer when she's only got light travelling rugs on so I don't think it's to do with over rugging. I'm not actually concerned about the itching it was just something else to possibly point to the alfalfa BUT high dose mag ox can also dry the skin so...

Like I say I am confident the PSSM is well managed. I'm going to cut the alfalfa and hope she starts eating the copra (she didn't eat it today, funny that cutting something out has made her go off it, maybe I should have done it gradually but I like answers lol).

I'm going to give her a very small feed with her sups in tomorrow to make sure she eats them all then possibly try a bit of speedibeet if she won't eat the copra on its own. She was on SB before but someone put me off feeding that for some other reason I can't remember and that's when I increased the alfalfa.
 
If you would like a sample of some soya flakes I will happily send some in the post I have a big bag my nag currently isn't eating!
 
You have all my sympathy! I used to have a WelshxTB mare who we had to be very careful with. Alfalfa was one of the very few things that she could tolerate but finding that out was a nightmare! Over the years we have found that just about anything with more than one ingredient can upset at least one horse and is to be avoided.

Nowadays we only feed single ingredients and monitor any behaviour changes carefully, so that single ingredients can be identifed and removed if they cause any problems. Alfalfa has certainly caused problems for some horses. Did you notice any improvement when you stopped feeding SB? If not I would re-introduce it with the copra.

The single most important thing that I have learned about horses is that they are all different.
 
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