All you barefooters and knowledgable people come this way please

BigGinger

BigGinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2011
Messages
181
Location
North West
Visit site
Just been reading a thread about remedial shoeing. If your horse happened to come down with lami, navicular or any sort of hoof problems and the recommended treatment is remedial shoes what do you do?

Are there any alternatives? Just got me thinking really as if i'd spent a long time transitioning my horse to barefoot for advice to put shoes back on!

Maybe being barefoot prevent all these problems arising?

please enlighten me :D
 
I'm sorry, not at all knowledgeable about barefoot (or anything else, really!) but just wanted to reply and say I like your username!! :p:p
 
I take it you're speaking hypothetically here? My lad's barefoot because he was diagnosed with navicular and collateral ligament damage. I'm afraid I wouldn't listen to advice to take him back into shoes unless there was a very strong case for doing so. It would certainly have to be more than the vet not liking the idea of barefoot which is what I get at the moment!

In my case part of my feeling so strongly against shoes is because bad shoeing was the cause of the collateral ligament damage in my lad so I'm extra cautious now! ;)
 
BigGinger said:
Just been reading a thread about remedial shoeing. If your horse happened to come down with lami, navicular or any sort of hoof problems and the recommended treatment is remedial shoes what do you do?

Are there any alternatives? Just got me thinking really as if i'd spent a long time transitioning my horse to barefoot for advice to put shoes back on!

Maybe being barefoot prevent all these problems arising?

please enlighten me :D
Click to expand...

Navicular - appears to be caused by an unhealthy caudal hoof creating a toe-first landing and unhealthy levering forces on the DDFT. Healthy BF hooves have a strong and robust caudal hoof.

Lami - BF horses will often give you fair warning so the degree of rotation and severity of the damage is often less than shod horses who cannot feel the damage until it is severe.

However, just being barefoot isn't enough.
There are plenty of unhealthy hooves out there, shod or not - but a healthy hoofed horse is much more resistant to pathology.
The hoof is designed to carry the horse and when we look after it well and let it do its 'thing' - it does a bloody good job.

Unfortunately many owners of barefoot horses will see a vet for any issue and the vet will immediately insist on shoes. Some vets will even refuse to come out to see a barefoot horse. :(

You have to toss up between following your vet's advice or going against them and invalidating your insurance :mad:
 
The trouble is that there is no scientific evidence for shoeing and there is no scientific evidence for going without shoes.

We do have increasing anecdotal evidence that taking the shoes off is a far better solution to foot lameness issues than any medication or remedial shoeing, but it's still just that, anecdotal.

Meanwhile, people like me who have resolved horses which were about to be put down or retired form part of the barefoot taliban.

And the rest of the barefoot brigade will sit there and say "why are you paying an awful lot of money for a set of shoes that your horse does not need?".

Next question :D ?
 
I wouldn't claim to be knowledgeable about it but we made the decision to put our DWB mare barefoot after a bout of navicular syndrome - all the treatments including 4 months box rest and remedial shoeing made little or no difference. After a long discussion between me, the vet AND the farrier we decided to try barefoot - she has been sound ever since - three years down the line. (apart from other injuries not related). She competes at X Country, showjumping and dressage.

As I have said in previous posts about going barefoot my vet and farrier worked together to achieve this - and my farrier still trims her feet and keeps them in really good condition.
 
My mare was shod and developed mild intermittent lameness, x-rays revealed a dropped pedal bone and the recommendation was for heartbars. I went with them for a while, but didn't like the way her feet were going, so took the plunge, pulled the shoes and we haven't looked back since.

The vet even commented on how good her (bare) feet were at his next visit, and I believe he works alongside barefoot trimmers now too.
 
Shoes ruined my horse's feet. I would not put shoes back on now unless there was no other choice. Fortunately my vet has no desire to force me into something I feel is not the best thing for my horse :D.
 
these replies are good.. my boy doesn't have no feet problems but i have often wondered what other options there are other than shoes back on if anything did arise.. but it seems if i look after his feet we shouldnt have any problems. i dont think i could nail shoes on his feet again now
 
Im sat here trying to think of a scenario that would cause me to shoe - rather than boot/poultice/pad/wrap etc

There are other options than shoes/barefoot there are some grey areas in between.

I cannot believe that putting nails into a compromised foot can ever be a good thing. I also think vets are HAVING to become more educated because owners are doing so. Owners need to be aware of the training vets do on hooves unless they specialise in them, is very minimalistic and all centred around remedial shoeing. Its like asking your GP to give you a boob job......:eek:
 
It took my horse having laminitis and being told that remedial shoeing was needed before I ever considered alternatives/barefoot etc.

The first vet that was involved pulled a shoe to x-ray and then insisted that it was nailed straight back on - horse was, at the time, barely able to move, properly rocking-horsed out and in a great deal of pain. Shoe being nailed back on was enough to send her off her feet for 48 hours. :(

Same vet insisted on leaving all the shoes on for a week and then demanded heart bears be fitted, though we'd have had to dope her to the gills to get her to lift her feet for long enough to do anything to them, never mind nail more metal to them. Horse still in great deal of pain, no management advice given beyond 'box rest and bute'.

First vet told where to shove it. Second vet comes along, whips off shoes, pads up feet. Horse immediately more comfortable. Pads replaced twice a week for a few weeks until horse is stable and in less pain, at which point he recommends plastic Imprints. Immediate relief is obvious. Horse improves drastically.

If I can possibly help it that horse will never wear metal shoes again. She's still in Imprints for the moment but turned out and sound, the plan is to grow some good foot and then try having her barefoot in the field and booted in front to be ridden. It is my belief that pulling the shoes and padding her up right away would have prevented a great deal of the dropping and rotation she has suffered (and if she'd not worn shoes we would have noticed the lameness earlier anyway).
 
Navicular is how I joined the barefoot brigade... transition was easy and results dramatic. The hoof just sorted itself out. Once you feed the feet, the rest of the body follows. If eyes are the mirror of the horses soul, then his feet are the mirror of his health.
 
I can't remember if I posted a photo at the time but this is what leaving regular shoes on (and nailing them on/off during an acute laminitic episode, courtesy of knobhead vet) did to her feet:

579467_3863420741890_1555918542_n.jpg


You can see the bulging outline of the pedal bone. Unsurprisingly she was unable to bear weight on these without pads or, eventually, the Imprints. She's due another set next week, will take a progress photo to compare. She's now out 24/7 and appears almost 100% sound with them on.
 
Thanks blackcob thats definately an eye opener. I'm glad i have had Kero's shoes taken off. the difference in himself is alot better and he seems to have stopped over reaching. great that there are other options out there and hopefully we wont ever have to cross that bridge with feet problems.
 
Thanks Tally :)

Blackcob that's awful. I'd have wanted to kill that vet! So glad you've got her comfortable now.

I may only be a fairly new member of the Barefoot Taliban but I really don't think I'll ever go back to shoes now. I'm going to whip them off my youngster too in a couple of months time. :)
 
All mine have shoes on but if anything happened *touchs wood* i would consider bf. My lami has heart bars, tho when he went down with lami the vet wipped.shoes off pads and tape for a few weeks then imprints then heart bars.

I know i will get told i am wrong for this but he would not do bf trans very well. When we got the all clear to start riding i didnt put back shoes on as we werent sure how he would go, after 3 shoings i put them back on as he just did want to walk over rough ground, and there was rough ground all the way to his feild, the menage and the farm tracks. (He had no rotation in hind hooves)

My welsh mare only had fronts on until her lameness work up and we found djd in her hinds, the way she was walking (she had a few spurs on her hocks) was wareing down her hooves unevenly so backs went on. Had steriod injections, adiqan and has been fine for six years.

But our old pony was bf and never had a reason to put shoes on.

At the end of the day as lone as your horse is happy and healthy then weather bf or shod it doesnt matter.

*runs and hides*
 
BigGinger said:
Just been reading a thread about remedial shoeing. If your horse happened to come down with lami, navicular or any sort of hoof problems and the recommended treatment is remedial shoes what do you do?

Are there any alternatives? Just got me thinking really as if i'd spent a long time transitioning my horse to barefoot for advice to put shoes back on!

Maybe being barefoot prevent all these problems arising?

please enlighten me :D
Click to expand...

i'm not particularly knowledgable and i admit to being darn lucky in that 2 of my horses are barefoot without me putting in much effort:o it would take a lot for me to even consider putting shoes on them now, i would do my best to solve any issues without resorting to shoes.
my new TB on the other hand is not coping so well, he's not as comfortable as i would like on the farm track, i am trying to decide whether to shoe him just for the summer so that i can ride (slightly selfish but if i don't ride him OH is going to say get rid:( ) and then really put my all into transitioning him over winter.
 
There's nothing wrong with shoeing if you make the choice to shoe out of knowledge and allow non shod periods in the year.

I get testy when people automatically slap shoes on and then, when the hooves have been ruined by back to back shoeing for years, declare "my horse NEEDS shoes"......as though it is the horse's deficient hooves that are the problem :/
 
I lost 2 to navicular and it was via posting on here asking the BT about barefoot "curing" navicular that lead to me buying the books and educating myself.

The more I read the more sense it made not to nail metal rims onto 3/4 of a flexible structure. I did find this steep learning curve distressing as if I'd known then what I know now I'm pretty sure I'd still have at least one of the two mares that I lost.

I took the shoes off my ex-racer TB as I wasn't happy with the farrier and I'd had all these lightbulb moments reading Pete Ramey's book and then Feet First/Rockley Blog.

However I've just been in/am in a situation similar to the one you hypothesized. I had the vet out this week for something unrelated to feet and was asked why I'd taken his shoes off. I explained about losing mares, reading books, blah blah. She advised to put shoes on to bring his toes back, support his heels, keep his thin soles off the ground/stones and make sure that his frogs aren't in contact with the ground. Pretty much all the reasons why I took shoes off!

The reasons to shoe that the vet put forward didn't make sense to me and I'd prefer to work with my trimmer (the fourth one (!!) and hopefully the last - that in itself has been a saga) and boot until his feet are stronger.

Perhaps it's the BT brainwashing but I've yet to hear a plausible arguement or reasoning for shoeing; not saying that there isn't one just I've not heard it yet. It seems completely irrational that I've so willingly shod in the past. Even the thought of nailing shoes on now gives me the heebies.
 
Done my usual and lost my train of thought because I was rambling :blush:

I think the reason that a lot of us have gone barefoot is because of our horse's compromised feet. My vet likened my horse to the weakest chain if it were to be in the wild and the one that would be eaten by the lion. It's a fair point BUT if he'd been a wild horse he'd never have been shod so wouldn't have weak feet.

Basically, I think many of us go barefoot as a "cure" but if we didn't shoe (and provided the right care and management to support the horse) there possibly wouldn't be anything needing fixed.
 
The only reasons I would put shoes on again would be to deal with sheared heels or fractures pedal bone. And I would have done everything else possible first (like prob.equicast). Good trim and diet, mag, boots and pads can just about deal with whatever else might b thrown at us.

My vet's have open said they r not trainined in horse feet and would refer to a farrier for advice. They have never even dissected a horses foot!! So they just leave me to.my own devices don't think they would dare suggest shoes. Although my friends vet did recently after a frog puncture. Diagnosis was door vet humoured her and gave antibiotics but wasn't.hopeful kept saying likely navicular damage or pos fractured pedal bone. Was always barefoot for many years .si we clean trax and outlined and kept on dry yard. Cut pad with Frogre shape cut out.intake needed to stop any pressure on frog if sore. Vet was amazed with weekly progress inc running off down tack and jumping gate. Not bad for a horse that would b luck to come pasture sound!!! Anyways his response was.. u will need to put front shoesnon now!! My friend said most definitely NOT! !!
 
My horse was diagnosed with severe side bones in both fronts at 6 years old.

vardirightfront.jpg


vardileftfoot.jpg


After my Dutch Vets initial recommendation to have him pts claim on the insurance and buy myself a dressage horse that would work! he then said the only way forward was remedial shoeing, with a severe trim to the toe to aid roll over and gel pads for concussion, work only on soft ground and no hacking out.

I asked for advice on here and got pointed in the direction of Rockley Farm who gave me some wonderful advice, I then thanked my Dutch Vet and Farrier and moved my horse to the UK to a friend of mine to go on an excercise livery to see how sound he could stay with regular work for 6 months, put him in the care of a wonderful farrier that pulled his shoes, trimmed him and generally let him be.

With a proper barefoot diet (no sugar, high forage based and correct vits and mins) a trimming regime that basically means my farrier checking him, announcing him self trimming and filing off the odd rough edge (not been trimmed for over 6 months now) and most importantly leaving his frogs alone! He hacks out in Hoof Boots to stop any concussion from the roads.

1 year on he is fit, healthy, happy working 6 days a week and has not had a days lameness in over 10 months. He even managed to pass the official riding school inspection as totally sound and able to work if we needed him to.

My UK Vets are very supportive and not at all suprised at the outcome;-)

Not bad for a write off!

vaardthepaard.jpg
 
How all this (barefoot rehab cases/successes) are dismissed by "specialists" as humkum I will never know... mind doth boggle.
 
Chavhorse - that's incredible ringbone! It's great to hear that a horse with ringbone that bad can be sound without his shoes on. Lovely colour too!
 
cptrayes said:
Chavhorse - that's incredible ringbone! It's great to hear that a horse with ringbone that bad can be sound without his shoes on. Lovely colour too!
Click to expand...

Stunning Side Bones indeed never been known to do anything by halves by horse!

My UK Vet is of the opinion this is something he has had for years before it was discovered at 6 (side bones like that do not appear overnight!) and is of the opinion that his Breeding Dutch Warmblood X Appaloosa (Hence the lovely colour) was maybe a Frankencross too far the small body of the appaloosa not being able to take the weight and bone of the thumping great warmblood. It has been a supreme lesson in even if you are buying an unbacked 3 year old get X-rays! as nothing was picked up on the vetting when he was bought.

His dressage Diva days are over (shame as he is very talented) but the prognosis from the Vet is that all being well and if managed well he should stay sound now and be useful in light work. Which is good enough. I am lucky that my insurance company on viewing the x-rays only excluded any problems directly attritable to the Side bones and not the entirety of both front feet which is what my vet had fully expected.

Long may it continue ;-)
 
Waltzing Matilda said:
. They have never even dissected a horses foot!!
Click to expand...

i dont know what vet school your vet went to but that is certainly not true for all of them!! We most definitely have dissected hooves and the lower limb! In fact there has been much more focus on that area of the horse than most others... The digestive system was probably the only thing covered in more detail.
 
Oberon said:
Unfortunately many owners of barefoot horses will see a vet for any issue and the vet will immediately insist on shoes.
Some vets will even refuse to come out to see a barefoot horse. :(
:mad:
Click to expand...
That constitutes professional negligence, do you mean they may refuse to come out if the owner has refused to comply with previous advice , presumably to shoe!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top