All you bitting experts out there - help, suggestions needed!

0ldmare

0ldmare

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I am hoping someone out there might be able to help with a bitting problem.... One of my horses can be very strong. We have been schooling her, but although this has helped to a degree she is very very strong if you canter out on a hack - sets her neck, drops on her forehand and sets her jaw against the bit. She is also strong in the school, but of course its more manageable there.

I started off riding her in a eggbut snaffle and then changed to a french link. Neither gave me any real control hacking and she constantly got her tongue over the bit (even with it high in her mouth and with a flash noseband). I tried a kimblewick and no improvement. Switched to a Pelham and I do have control, but she constantly gets her tongue over it. (Like within 5 seconds of putting it on). Added flash, still gets her tongue over it. Added a tongue guard and she can flip it over and then gets her tongue over it. So the latest option I have tried is a new Pee Wee bit. I have now ridden in it twice and miraculously she doesnt even try to get her tongue over it....but I dont have any brakes. (Could weep!!) I dont know know whether she likes it because its so thin or because of the mullen mouth type shape, but sadly she takes no notice of it so once again I am back to the drawing board.

Just for the record, her teeth have been done by an excellent very experienced horse dentist. I have ridden and owned for 40 odd years so think I have sat on most types of horses, but this is really baffling me where to go from here.

Any suggestions?
 
Does she have a small mouth/low palette/big tongue or a combination of any of those? That could explain her wanting to get her tongue over the bit i.e. she feels constricted by the bit. It's exactly how I was with one of my arabs. He'd easily get his tongue over most bits and when he gets strong he goes on forehand and leans. We do endurance so are often out on open moorland with lots of other horses and good brakes are essential. I found the perfect solution in this:

http://www.neueschulebits.com/acatalog/NS_Jumpers.html

I have the Waterford NS Jumper and it's absolutely brilliant. He doesn't lean on it at all and has never tried to get his tongue over. In fact he doesn't mess with his mouth at all now, whereas he used to fuss all the time. All the brakes that I need - in fact he respects the contact now and I can canter in company with a very light contact and no fighting.

It works for me is all I can say but it might be worth giving one a go.
 
I'm not bitting expert but I have found with a horse who was fussy in his mouth and around his nose that a grakle helped me with controlling him. He used to be very strong, open his mouth and drop his head whilst jumping and HATED flash nosebands, I tried a grakle and there was a really big improvement with control, turning and breaks. So maybe trying a different noseband may help. I also found that using stronger bits had no real effect apart from making the horse more uncomfy and even more resistant to me.
 
Thanks very much for the suggestions. I think you could be absolutely correct, because thinking about it she has quite a small mouth, but a large tongue (the horse dentist commented that her tongue was very big for such a neat little horse - bless her). This could easily be the reason why she feels the need to get her tongue over the bit and probably why she doesnt do it with the Pee Wee which is very thin.

Definitely food for thought!
 
Thanks, interesting about your horse preferring a grakle rather than a flash. I must admit I kind of assumed that both would be similar in terms of action. I do learn a lot on this forum!
 
Get as thinner bit as you can manage to give her more room in her mouth. The mylers all have a thin mouthpiece, so something like a waterford which has nothing to lean on. My boy is very similar, and goes very well in a Tom Thumb bit (similar to the NS jumper) with a curb strap. Seems to give me a bit more control without upsetting him too much!!
 
There is a bit I've heard of, which works on horse other bits don't, called the rockin s bit. the bit can actually rotate in mouth to the positions here horse finds it most comfortable.

See what you think. Ive ordered one, as sometimes I come across horses who dont like their current bit, and have only heard good things about it. Maybe if you know someone who has one, I'd borrow it and then try it with a very basic noseband, and see how you go.

It comes in french link or snaffle.

http://www.markrashid.com/Bits.htm
 
The thing I found with the grakle was that my horse hated pressure on the end of his nose whereas the grackle puts the pressure higher up and closes his mouth from higher. rather than just over his nose. Might not help but it's a thought! also my horse has a large fleshy tongue. I started him as a 4yo in a rubber straight bar snaffle and after might deliberation, lots of money and bits I ended up with him back in that snaffle at 11!!! and the grackle for hacking, hunting, sj and xc!
 
Sorry to hijack the post but KatB is that a cotswoldsport tom thumb as I have a NS waterford bit on hire for my mare but I think it should be 1/4" wider but due to NS production problems they do not have a wider one in stock so I was looking at the CS tom thumb as an alternative. My mare tends to put her head down & lean - she was great in a kimblewick until she started putting her head down (teeth have been checked)
 
She is probably trying to get her tongue over the bit as there's not a lot of room in her mouth and the bit is pressing down on her tongue (as ordinary snaffles are designed to do). I second KatB I would try a Myler. They have thin mouthpieces which are good for horses with small mouths, and they do several ported mouthpieces which would relieve tongue pressure and help stop her getting it over the bit.

One of these mouthpieces might do the trick:

Ported Barrel:
ported_barrel.gif


Medium wide port comfort snaffle:
medium_wide-port_comfort.gif


You can get them in snaffle cheeks or Pelham or Kimblewick; or alternatively you could try a Myler combination on her, which are meant to be very good for strong horses. Looks like this:

shortshankcombo.gif


Have a look on http://www.themylerbitbank.co.uk/#mouthpiece - you can borrow them from here to try.
 
Thank you so much for all your really great suggestions, I will definitely be trying some different bits. The more I think about it I am sure the key to her tongue over the bit thing is the size of her tongue (the Pee Wee definitely helped to figure that out so it wasnt a waste renting it). I feel a bit more positive now - all thanks to you guys!
 
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