Alternative to headcollar?

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Broodle

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I have two largeish (25kg) adult dogs who have never really had to go on the lead much, and consequently have (until recently) had little lead training/practice :o

I am now 4.5 months pregnant and planning a move to a new location which will involve a short section of road walking every day, so I have been working hard on sorting out some lead manners. Will be walking either with the baby in a sling/backpack or in a buggy, so it is obviously vital that the dogs can't pull me/the buggy over...

Both dogs now walk nicely on a loose lead 95% of the time. The problem is the other 5%, which is when they see something/someone they want to go see/chase, and they forget their manners and lunge :o

The older of the two wears a halti, and is very easy to manage when she 'lunges' because she doesn't/isn't able to put her weight behind it. The younger one (21 months) won't tolerate a halti or any other headcollar - tried several; introduced all very very slowly and carefully in the house first, then tried to have her wearing it on walks with lead attached to collar only, etc..., but she just 'shuts down' and refuses to move, take treats (and she's half lab :eek:), won't even make eye contact. So, I currently walk her on a rope slip lead, which is fine most of the time, but awful if she lunges... She nearly pulled me over when she caught me off guard the other day, which is when I realised that I need to do something :(

I know that ultimately the answer is more/better training, and I know that I created this problem by not persevering with lead training earlier. However, I am now in the position of needing a shorter term solution, because I do not want to risk being pulled over while pregnant/carrying the baby...

Can anyone offer any advice re control collars other than headcollars? Alternatively, should I persevere with the headcollars - do you have any advice re method for re-introducing one?

I am rather ashamed to be posting this because I take pride in how well behaved my dogs are in general, and I have always known that I should work on their lead training... But hey, we are where we are :o

Any helpful advice most gratefully received!! :)

PS I don't post much at all (as you can see by my post count :o ), but I do read posts in this forum regularly, and hope you won't hold my lack of posting against me...
 
There are other headcollars, Gencon, Dogmatic, Gentle Leader etc, I used a Gentle Leader with my big dog for when my mother had to walk him after a shoulder op, yes he did do some spectacular bucks, rears and airs above the ground but I kept on walking...it didn't kill him. It only needs a very light touch also.
Again you do right to introduce them in the house, maybe just try a different brand or - maybe the dog is being a brat and you need to persevere, maybe the dog cannot cope with pressure around the face like some cannot take pressure on the neck.

There are harnesses like the Metuki (sp?) Walkeezee, but again like any training aid you have to teach the dog what it all means, not just slap it on and off you go.
I used a Lupi harness with my big dog, he still pulled until it constricted around his chest, carving a big X shape into it, kept on pulling and hurt my back - retrained with a slip lead...no pulling.
Personally speaking I think harnesses for big dogs who pull are akin to a chocolate teapot, a clever dog will use the weight and torque against you - you attach yourself to the strongest part of the dog - but each to their own, give it a try.

Then you have full or half check collars but again, you need to be shown/to understand how to use one, where to place it etc.

What about a training lead attached one end to a slip or normal collar, the other end to something with more power steering.

I use a mix of mostly positive training with a bit of compulsion, yes it is nice to be nice - always incentivise the dog walking beside you - ball, food, praise etc - but equally big dogs need to understand that it is not OK to pull, it is not OK to hurt you so I would not be afraid to be firm if the dog can take a correction.
 
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Thanks so much for that cc - will Google the harness, but am v dubious, like you!

Have tried gentle leader, Haltis, and a sw agility branded harness. Was v nicety nicety for months, then tried using each of them more like a control halter on a horse, I.e. keeping pressure on when dog not obliging, and releasing pressure as soon as we had fwd movement. Perhaps I should persevere with this.

So sorry if this reply makes no sense - oh has stolen puter and I'm on my phone. Will re-read your reply when I manage to wrestle the laptop back!
 
Ps i have a training lead - v good idea.

Will do some research on all your ideas.

She is normally a v easy going dog, but the pressure of a headcollar just seems too much - she seems more terrified than pissed off, iyswim?

Never seen/used a check collar, so prob best to steer clear from the sounds of it.
 
It's just another word for a choke chain or half choke :p but you are already using a slip lead which is not radically different - and in some cases more severe as the rope travels through the ring quicker than a chain can, IMO.
Some dogs can cope with them, some can't....there are lots of other little tricks you can do like double back on yourself, sudden changes in direction, windmilling the lead in front of the dog's face...so the dog pulls and either a) goes nowhere b) gets a tap on the nose....if the dogs are ball or toy orientated you can keep something in a breast pocket and if you see something likely to be of interest you can ask them to focus on it and then reward them with it when the thing of interest has past - but that might be a bit faffy...you could get to work now on training a 'watch' command, you can hide a multitude of sins with this!
 
Thanks so much CC!

She already knows 'watch me', but is only reliable in the house - it's a bit hit and miss out and about, so I need to work on this. She is not interested in toys/balls etc at all really, but will usually do anything for cheese, so will try walking with a tube of primula at all times for the time being :D

Interesting about the choke chain thing. My mum actually suggested one of these, but as you say I am not convinced that it will do any more than the slip lead does. Think my granny has an ancient one knocking about somewhere so may give it a go though.

It's no excuse really, but as I am always walking two at once I struggle with the changing direction thing. We have made huge progress with just a sharp tug when they pull, and the reward of a loose lead with they don't. It's just the sudden, unexpected lunging that I'm struggling with really.
 
Is there anything particular that they lunge at? It could be a matter of just sharpening up on triggers and preparing yourself (not sending signals down the lead, just being ready) spotting things like ears or tail going forward..or spending these months proofing against things that they are lunging at, which will take training in isolation...a leave command is also a good thing to get in there with...say, my dog, he is a secret sheep poo snaffler...so I spent a few weeks in an area with tonnes of sheep poo, I told him to leave, if he came back, reward, if he did not, lead correction, he came back, reward. Lots of this and leave associated with reward/correction THEN reward if needed.
 
It's mainly other dogs or people, but they lunge as in 'helloooooo, I want to come say hi!' rather than anything remotely aggressive - they're both suuuuper friendly to the extreme!

Both know 'leave it' and are pretty spot on off lead (we're in splatty cow pat country :D), so not sure why I haven't really used it on lead...?! Will reinforce leave it on lead near doggie distractions, with cheese at first.

Thank you - this forum is ace. :D
 
I like harnesses and have used one on my old girl since getting her, ten years ago as she could wriggle out of a collar easily.

When I first got her from the RSPCA, she wasn't well trained on the lead. I used a training harness and it worked very well. As soon as she started pulling, it tightened around her and it gave me the torque and leverage.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Sporn...upplies_Dogs&hash=item3a688aac42#ht_720wt_952

I only needed it for a short time, while the "I refuse to move while you are pulling me" training kicked in.

I was disappointed that harnesses don't work as well on the Wolf - he is best suited to a semi-choke chain and a headcollar when needed.
 
Thanks very much all for the info on headcollars and harnesses everyone!

The SW Agility headcollar I have is very similar to the martingale one that lexiedhb linked to. It worked better than the halti and is a nice thing all round, but I still found it a pain to take on and off, and I did find that I managed to pull it right off her head somehow on the odd occasion!!

I like the look of the gencon headcollars that CaveCanem mentioned yesterday - does anyone have any experience of these? I have mocked up something similar with my rope slip lead and it was rather good, but didn't 'release' easily/quickly enough once pressure was released, so I'm thinking that the gencon could be a good option.

I have never tried a harness because, but am tempted to give one a go as headcollars have been such a trial. Thanks for the link Oberon.
 
Broodle said:
Thanks very much all for the info on headcollars and harnesses everyone!

The SW Agility headcollar I have is very similar to the martingale one that lexiedhb linked to. It worked better than the halti and is a nice thing all round, but I still found it a pain to take on and off, and I did find that I managed to pull it right off her head somehow on the odd occasion!!

I like the look of the gencon headcollars that CaveCanem mentioned yesterday - does anyone have any experience of these? I have mocked up something similar with my rope slip lead and it was rather good, but didn't 'release' easily/quickly enough once pressure was released, so I'm thinking that the gencon could be a good option.

I have never tried a harness because, but am tempted to give one a go as headcollars have been such a trial. Thanks for the link Oberon.
Click to expand...

I like the gencon, it works like a slip lead but around the head instead and is easier to put on. You are still controlling the dog slightly on the side but towards the back of the head rather than under the nose which I think is better.
 
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