Altior

blodwyn1

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Altior won impressively but the opposition wasn't strong. Imagine the race of masterminded, sprinter sacre, Moscow flyer etc I wonder how he would get on?
 

Clodagh

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He was amazing. I think he would hold his own, but tbh racing would be pretty odd if no horse ever aged and I think to knock a horse as stunning to watch as Altior is a bit sad. I just enjoyed it. I adored SS and I am not sure how Altior would do against him if both were at their peak but newer model cars tend to be an improvement on older ones.
He is awesome, long may he carry on.
 

EKW

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Altior is just awesome! You can't compare them to past era's - too many things have changed, breeding, training, feeding etc. Who knows - those horses of old might have been better with more modern methods etc.

More to the point - Who else Saw Nico's ride and Interview from the Christmas Hurdle where he beat Buveur D'air! He tried so hard not to win, wasn't best pleased during his interview after! The owners of Verdana Blue are over the moon however! Their quote after is funny - I know the trainer and jockey aren't very happy as they think they've lost their jobs - but we're very happy!
 

bonny

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Altior is just awesome! You can't compare them to past era's - too many things have changed, breeding, training, feeding etc. Who knows - those horses of old might have been better with more modern methods etc.

More to the point - Who else Saw Nico's ride and Interview from the Christmas Hurdle where he beat Buveur D'air! He tried so hard not to win, wasn't best pleased during his interview after! The owners of Verdana Blue are over the moon however! Their quote after is funny - I know the trainer and jockey aren't very happy as they think they've lost their jobs - but we're very happy!
I think he tried to win the race and then afterwards the reality dawned on him. It would have been easy for him to lose and I’m sure with hindsight he wished he had......all very bizarre
 

EKW

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I think he tried to win the race and then afterwards the reality dawned on him. It would have been easy for him to lose and I’m sure with hindsight he wished he had......all very bizarre
I think if he had ridden the horse as hard as Gerraghty rode Buveur D'air the mare would have won by 2 lengths
 

blodwyn1

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Oh I wasnt knocking Altior at all! He was magnificent and Special Tiara was a very good horse in his day. I was just speculating what would happen if all the greats were able to run at the same time. My all time great would still be Arkle followed by Desert Orchid and although I moan about ageing I am grateful I got to see them in their prime!
 

bonny

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Visually sprinter sacre in his prime was the most impressive of any horse I’ve seen but you can’t knock altior’s record, he just keeps winning !
 
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I like Altior. A lot. Impossible to compare to past generations but how would he fare upsides with Viking Flagship, Moscow Flyer? Anyway lets just enjoy him. As for Desert Orchid v Kauto now there's a conundrum. I just wonder Desert Orchid could take lengths off his opponents by those fabulous outside the wings leaps conceivable he could have pushed Kauto into a mistake? Watching replays of Dessie over 2 miles he was no slouch! It would have been a hell of a race!
 

bonny

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I like Altior. A lot. Impossible to compare to past generations but how would he fare upsides with Viking Flagship, Moscow Flyer? Anyway lets just enjoy him. As for Desert Orchid v Kauto now there's a conundrum. I just wonder Desert Orchid could take lengths off his opponents by those fabulous outside the wings leaps conceivable he could have pushed Kauto into a mistake? Watching replays of Dessie over 2 miles he was no slouch! It would have been a hell of a race!
Of course you can compare horses, they all have a handicap mark and the races are timed which gives a lot of clues. There is a reason that most people think we will never see one as good as Arkle and nothing since has had anything like his mark !
 
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Hmmm not sure its so straightforward just to look at the stats..............Desert Orchid for example nowhere near his top mark going left handed........... hence proximity Yahoo in Gold Cup. Too many variables for stats alone. Also the modern Chaser is a different stamp to the old-fashioned Chaser - and therefore that impacts on timings. This sets out what I'm getting at.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/h...t-he-is-still-one-of-the-all-time-greats.html
 

Clodagh

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Horses like Arkle and Desert Orchid would be classed as middle weight hunters nowadays. They look huge compared to the modern tb.
 

Orangehorse

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It was nice to see Altior out and doing what he does best. People like to see a champion running and winning.
I think it was a case of the trainer spotting that he could enter the race, although he was carrying more weight, and probably guessed that there might not be too much opposition. Nice for the owner to have another trophy to polish.
 

popsdosh

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Arkle was a freak never to be repeated. I count myself very lucky to just about remember him running . Having said that many trainers today would not have looked at him twice he wasnt exactly handsome. My ex boss used to hunt with Golden miller another freak of a horse . He used to limber up for the Gold cup hunting with the Fitzwilliam the day before.
Modern horses are trained differently and I cant help think that if some of todays horses had more variety they may be different.
 

EKW

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It seems to be a day for jumping left as Arthur was doing it occasionally too! Apart from that and his unseat he was jumping well for the most part. Ahh well! He lives to fight another day!

Altior is an impressive horse. It's a shame no other took up the race. 3 horses, 3rd place went home with £16k. It's was worth it for the very well paid for schooling round! I hate it when people run scared of 1 horse! 1 horse can be beaten! I could understand if you were heading out to face Kauto Star, Denman, Neptune Collanges, Long Run and Imperial Commander all in one race but not 1 horse.
 

blodwyn1

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I think modern day chasing is spoiled by the emphasis on the Cheltenham's festival. In the past the whitbread, mackeson and the Hennessy gold cups were seen as prestigious races in their own right and not all races were seen as stepping stones to Cheltenham ! This is leading to tiny fields and horses being run only a few times a year.
 

EKW

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I agree, Cheltenham is not the be all and end all but National Hunt Racing focuses on it. You don't get the same on the flat. Yeah everyone kind of wants to go to Royal Ascot but you have plenty of other races that horses focus on long before and long after then. They are bringing in a 3 day Northern Festival next year - Kelso, Carlisle & Musselburgh to replace the Northern Lights series. It is going to be held the week after Chetlenham. People with horses that would be suitable for these races will run them at Cheltenham or Aintree instead. The Northern Lights series is a mockery anyway. This year only the mares chase (3 runner!) ran true to form. The rest of the races were won by big priced, low weighted horses that had barely scraped a win in their lives.
 

Clodagh

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TBH it must have been worth having a go today, how far down does place money go?
Altior doesn't 'stir' me like Sprinter Sacre used to but what do they go on about on the tv, he isn't very impressive/handsome etc. He looks pretty spot on conformation wise for a racehorse, he has a pretty face and has won 17 races, what bit of him needs to be better?
I quite like Cheltenham being like the world championships, I take the week off work and lap it up, but it does seem to be no one can think beyond it. Is prize money being better spread the answer?
 

Chiffy

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I agree with blodwyn about the endless references to Cheltenham from the moment the National Hunt season starts, it’s really annoying. I remember the other big Gold Cups being much more prestigious than they are now.
At least Altior appears quite a few times a season. I can’t bear it when horses just appear for Cheltenham.
I am old and forgetful but what was the name of that hurdler that Nicki Henderson wrapped in cotton wool but produced each year to win the Champion Hurdle? The attraction of NH is getting fond of horses that race frequently.
Altior doesn’t have the physique of Sprinter Sacre to fill the eye, Clodagh, but he has the jump and the speed. Yesterday wasn’t typical because he had no one to race with.
 

Clodagh

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Altior doesn’t have the physique of Sprinter Sacre to fill the eye, Clodagh, but he has the jump and the speed. Yesterday wasn’t typical because he had no one to race with.
He doesn't have that arrogant swagger, does he? Truly great horses seem to know when they are. :)
 

Mariposa

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Sprinter Sacre just had that amazing swagger, he made it looks so easy. And then the amazing comeback - it was just so emotional watching it. I get choked up watching it back even now - I clearly remember screaming at the TV for Noel F to move and give Sprinter room as they came up to that last turn. As for Altior, I think he's magical, it's like he has wings. He's such a beautiful horse, looks so intelligent, it's like watching poetry in motion.
 

Mariposa

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