Am I alone in this view?

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Dizzie

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There are many horse trainers out there, and we all have our favourites incorporating methods that better fit our own individual ethos. However, even accepting this, I am puzzled over the amount of adulation one trainer in particular seems to attract, namely Steve Young (Steve Young Horsemanship). I do know he has his critics, who comment on certain of his videos, and it is those comments that got me thinking and looking more closely at this chap. I have to agree , he does waffle, he is not a good rider, and he does comment on horse matters he clearly knows little or nothing about. He classifies the majority of horses he deals with as being "dangerous", when clearly most are not, just mishandled or owned by an idiot! One commentator in particular has mentioned that he does not seem to have any biography ascertaining his training credentials, so I thought I would do my own research and genuinely could not find anything. I must assume, therefore, that he has none and is a self-appointed guru with no professional background, but who talks a good horse and has all the larrup. Interested to see what others think.
 
I've not really watched much- got part way through a video and decided it was a bit too waffly, but IMO the majority of 'famous' horsemanship trainers are much better salesmen than they are horsemen. (Which is perhaps natural, being an excellent horseman doesn't mean you're good at all the advertising business)
 
Sometimes learning through experience with other experienced trainers is a better foundation than any official course. As long as you find a trainer that you can work with and can overcome a problem, so the horse and owners life is enhanced and safer, it's a win.

They might be 'owned by an idiot!' but at least that idiot is trying to get help and not just sell on.
 
I don't like the video's. The horses seem to be talked up to make out they're lot worse than they are. I wouldn't be inclined to use him as I prefer a more understated approach. Maybe irl without having to look good for a video he might be better. I've had a behavioural specialist out for one of mine. He didn't bring a videographer and focused on talking things through with me and helping my horse who was orphaned as a young foal and is quite insecure / anxious.

I think my all time least favourite(s) is padded man and girlfriend of padded man. They also like doing videos, and the situations they put horses in for so called training look unsafe and often the horses look uncomfortable. They seem to like themselves a lot but don't have a lot of empathy for the horses.
 
I dont like him at all. He floods the horses they aren’t taught anything just bullied. Not saying I could do any better just don’t like his methods. He’s very fond of his own voice and thinks he’s funny too. The videos are very long and I suppose to some he makes sense. Also agree most of his customers don’t appear to have much horse sense.
 
I personally separately the personality of the trainer from their methods. If their methods are horse compassionate and promote understanding and listening to the horse, as individuals, and try to help correct issues that the horse actually gets without excess stress methods, that’s a good training session.

What was the issue? What was understood about the issue forming? Was correction of issue solved without excess trauma stress to the horse, and actually helped the horse overcome issue? All trainers come from these perspectives, despite their own personality of explaining and expressing which may or may not be liked by others.
 
Me and my friends call it Jeremy Kyle horsemanship, a lot of clickbait and a lot of extremely high-stress training, I don’t see anything kind or magical. There’s a few of them around.

I find it bizarre that people are happy to have their entire, vulnerable training session filmed and plastered all over the Internet, but I assume that’s part of the deal. I have watched quite a few over the years and I find that a lot of the owners are patronised and spoken-down to. A vibe of “aren’t you so soft and silly to get into this mess thank god I’m here to fix your dangerous horse who will definitely kill you if you ever dare hand feed him a treat” 😅
 
A friend of mine had him out to an aggressive mare with good results. I think it's tricky as owners expect magic wands and their problems to be resolved in one session with any of these trainers. Also people wouldn't hire them to the same extent if they didn't watch social media clips solving issues.

Not sure I love an online forum slagging off someone's personality. Remember they are still human and may well find their way to this thread.
 
Dizzie said:
There are many horse trainers out there, and we all have our favourites incorporating methods that better fit our own individual ethos. However, even accepting this, I am puzzled over the amount of adulation one trainer in particular seems to attract, namely Steve Young (Steve Young Horsemanship). I do know he has his critics, who comment on certain of his videos, and it is those comments that got me thinking and looking more closely at this chap. I have to agree , he does waffle, he is not a good rider, and he does comment on horse matters he clearly knows little or nothing about. He classifies the majority of horses he deals with as being "dangerous", when clearly most are not, just mishandled or owned by an idiot! One commentator in particular has mentioned that he does not seem to have any biography ascertaining his training credentials, so I thought I would do my own research and genuinely could not find anything. I must assume, therefore, that he has none and is a self-appointed guru with no professional background, but who talks a good horse and has all the larrup. Interested to see what others think.
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Credentials:
What credentials could a person have? That they have worked with x person? That just tells you which approach they follow. That they have BHS qualifications? In terms of behavioural work those do nothing. Not designed for it and don’t even teach anything about young horses until the stage long beyond when most people stop taking them. I had a lady out once to one of my most troubled ponies - intelligent horsemanship credentials. She said she couldn’t do more with the setup I had than I was doing and said I wasn’t doing anything wrong, to send to x place if we got stuck. I persevered, pony made it through. She’s my son’s very best friend now, here for life. We had been her last chance. I have taken on several like her - branded dangerous and on their last chance before pts. My credentials for people trusting me with them? That I have done so successfully before. Here’s the videos and the pictures. Gets me cheap ponies for my kids and gives the ponies a new start. They usually leave novice safe and sweet once both of my children have grown out of them!

Dangerous vs misunderstood:
Dangerous simply means they can and are likely to hurt you. Everything I have taken on with that label was what it said on the tin. Bit, kicked, squashed you, panicked and flattened everything in sight. One wanted to hurt you, most didn’t. Yes they did come right and one is a child’s first pony now - but they were definitely dangerous at the time. It is extremely important to remember that horses are large animals and a stressed horse can do considerable damage or even kill a human. Hats, safety gear, not handling in confined spaces - you can’t help a horse if you get injured. Misunderstood and dangerous are different things. One can be the cause, the other is the outcome of the behaviour it leads to.

Steve Young:
I haven’t watched much and I don’t work like he does (in part because I’m a hypermobile woman who cannot rely on strength). He has x amount of time to make a difference - by the time you spend a lot of money on him you’re pretty close to giving up. What would you do differently? How is he different from a trainer you prefer? Have you successfully worked with horses like this yourself, in that same limited timeframe? I for sure wouldn’t do it!
 
The style doesn't do much for me so I don't watch the videos but I don't object to them as I would Mr padded man or similar. Michael Peace's videos speak more to me but then some people don't like him either. 🤷‍♀️
 
I don’t rate him, particularly, but definitely feel i’m in the minority. I think he’s pretty average in his approach and handling.

I have had Richard Maxwell out twice and his feel and timing blew my mind. I felt he was a little OTT with my quiet Arab (second visit but different horse) and i didn’t like that but he certainly got the result and i could approach it quieter once he had established the good habits (unloading without exploding off the box)
 
pistolpete said:
I dont like him at all. He floods the horses they aren’t taught anything just bullied.
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I have nothing to say about his personality but this is my problem.

People defend the incredible pressure he uses, often violent pressure, by saying the horses are "dangerous" and I simply don't agree that's a justification. Or that he is solving anything long term. Hate it.
 
smolmaus said:
I have nothing to say about his personality but this is my problem.

People defend the incredible pressure he uses, often violent pressure, by saying the horses are "dangerous" and I simply don't agree that's a justification. Or that he is solving anything long term. Hate it.
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The one that got me was a little pony, I can’t remember what trauma it had been through but it was utterly terrified to the point they couldn’t get it out the stable.

Instead of making the world a little bit less scary for him, he made his only ‘safe place’ in the world so highly pressured that the pony had no option but to leave.

No learning in that. Only fear.
 
rhino said:
The one that got me was a little pony, I can’t remember what trauma it had been through but it was utterly terrified to the point they couldn’t get it out the stable.

Instead of making the world a little bit less scary for him, he made his only ‘safe place’ in the world so highly pressured that the pony had no option but to leave.

No learning in that. Only fear.
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Well, except that they had tried tonnes of other professionals and everything anyone could think of - and nothing. So you could pts. Or let the pony live in a stable and never leave for the rest of its life. Or apply some pressure and get it out, so it can realise that outside is actually fine. So the pony can have a normal life and a future - which going by the update I saw was actually the case. Pony was living a normal, happy life with friends and freedom and stimulation. A short period of pressure to achieve a future is most definitely worth it.

I applied pressure to get my most feral special mare to catch. I walked her down - for hours - without giving up. I let her go the second I caught her, with treats, but she had to agree to be caught. Her ‘safe space’ was the field without human touch. But it wasn’t safe at all:
- ouchy teeth (no dentist);
- wonky hooves (no farrier);
- danger of tetanus (no vaccination - and yes that danger is terrifyingly real without one);
- danger of infection from any injury because you could not get near her;
- danger of weight loss (from cold - she grows a pathetic coat and really needs rugs).

She’s a happy, healthy, tame mare now who wears rugs with the greatest enthusiasm, orders us around when we don’t bow down to her highness’ latest whims and loves a cuddle. She gets all the medical treatment she needs and enjoys hacks with her friends. Those days of walking her down for hours are but a distant memory. But they built trust - trust that when I ask her to do something, I mean it but that it is only ever for her own good. Her face when she first got the dentist - she’s now a very keen volunteer! So is her 20yo friend who first experienced the dentist at 18. A comfortable mouth is a wonder when it is something you could never have before. Did I apply pressure to get them to accept me? Yes. Were the rewards lifelong for them? Also yes.
 
maya2008 said:
He has x amount of time to make a difference - by the time you spend a lot of money on him you’re pretty close to giving up.
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These things also aren't justifications for flooding or further traumatising a horse. What's the idiom, fast, cheap or good, pick two? I think you're getting short changed. Some things simply shouldn't be rushed.

I am speaking from a place of privilege in that I have regular access to a highly qualified and experienced equine behaviourist. The difference between her and Steve Young is like a chess grandmaster and the proverbial pigeon shitting all over the board and declaring itself the victor.
 
Oh wait... I mistook this for someone else. I'm reserving judgement.

Just watching the one of the young pony in the stable - am I understanding that it had been kept in that stable for 5 weeks since it arrived at the yard?!
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
Oh wait... I mistook this for someone else. I'm reserving judgement.

Just watching the one of the young pony in the stable - am I understanding that it had been kept in that stable for 5 weeks since it arrived at the yard?!
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8 months in the video I saw - and I’ve only seen three but this was one of them.
 
Why are we giving only 2 possibly outcomes? Either the horse is interred in its stable for eternity or lives happily ever after with its friends? Either it is never caught and dies a painful death or it becomes a ‘useful’ ridden pony.

Both the better outcomes can be achieved without causing significant extra stress to a systemically stressed animal. Maybe not in half an hour, and maybe not ‘exciting’ enough for YouTube.

The minute you approach any element of horse training with the mindset of it being a battle you must win, you have already lost. And so has the horse.
 
rhino said:
Why are we giving only 2 possibly outcomes? Either the horse is interred in its stable for eternity or lives happily ever after with its friends? Either it is never caught and dies a painful death or it becomes a ‘useful’ ridden pony.

Both the better outcomes can be achieved without causing significant extra stress to a systemically stressed animal. Maybe not in half an hour, and maybe not ‘exciting’ enough for YouTube.

The minute you approach any element of horse training with the mindset of it being a battle you must win, you have already lost. And so has the horse.
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Indeed. I'm watching a MP video on a similar situation (feral/unhandled horse in stable) and tbh it is a bit boring but the horse looks considerably less stressed. I would hope most horse training is minimal in its dramatic moments. A bit like good riding where it doesn't look like much is happening.
 
Are we all talking about different videos? I just went back and watched the one of the palomino pony stuck in the stable for 8 months - the one that lost an eye. I’m slightly confused - what exactly does he do that you are all objecting to so vehemently? Or is everyone talking about a different video?
 
maya2008 said:
Are we all talking about different videos? I just went back and watched the one of the palomino pony stuck in the stable for 8 months - the one that lost an eye. I’m slightly confused - what exactly does he do that you are all objecting to so vehemently? Or is everyone talking about a different video?
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I can't find that. The one I was watching was quite a recent one with a coloured gypsy cob.
 
smolmaus said:
Yeah the timing is poor, the signals are muddy, the "corrections" are WILDLY excessive. Not that I've watched any of it in a few years tbh, but that's what stuck in my memory.
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A Likit also kept coming out at seemingly random points 😂

Not, before anyone says it, saying I could do any better. But if I were paying someone to help me, I would definitely need them to do it better!
 
I've watched some of his older videos a few years ago and thought his approach to helping horses with feet picking up and farrier issues was good.

I'm surprised he hasn't been seriously injured, particularly with the trailer loading.

Other videos showing backing up very quickly, flag waving and flooding are not my cup of tea at all.
 
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