Am I beating my head against a brick wall with my youngster?

[AGray825]

I'm sure you're probably all sick of hearing about my youngster problems, but we're back at it again

For those who might not know the history, brief summary:
Big black beauty of a horse, bought at 15 mo, should have been 16hh is now 17.1hh (ish) at 6 yo. Broke pedal bone just as he turned 4 and just after initial backing had started. Had a year to recover (with rehab involved so groundwork and long lining during that time after soundness returned). Attempted backing, went slowly but well for three weeks, then horse flipped out, bronked, lost confidence. Gave him winter off and in April he was sent away to be professionally backed.

And here we are. And perhaps this is partially my fault, but the woman I sent him to did an amazing job with him. But she also taught him how to jump. Now all he's interested in is jumping and I'm not a good enough jumper to do that with him (as he's a talented but not 'safe' jumper if you know what I mean). Also the vet already told me that he won't find longevity in jumping because the pedal bone fracture was quite severe and arthritis could set in quickly.

So as he's come back home my plan has been to progress his flatwork and pop a few crosspoles every now and then for variety.
And he was happy with that for about two weeks (the honeymoon period I guess) and now for the last three weeks he's been a complete tw*t in virtually all aspects of life.

He won't stay in a field, has learnt how to pull up the top gate handles and then jumps the lower electric fence. I stopped scratching him in the field and went to walk away and he turned his hind end to kick because that wasn't what he wanted. He's back to his old bronking ways whenever I'm doing something he doesn't want to do (flatwork for example... I hadn't even started trotting properly the last time and he got arsey with me.... so it's not like I'm even given chance to make it more 'exciting' for him)

I had the woman who backed him back over last night and he was just as arsey with her, gave some almighty bucks and was generally reluctant to listen at all.

I'm currently sitting these temper tantrums okay, but this just isn't fun in any way and he just doesn't seem to be improving. Is this behaviour to have been expected or is there something else going on? He's not showing pain anywhere but I suppose you never know....

I have a dressage instructor coming to have a look at him and see if she can give me some tip and lessons to make flatwork more interesting for him, as really dressage/flatwork should be his main form of exercise given his previous injury!

All in all I'm just feeling like a bit of a failure with him but I don't know what to do about it! Any advice would be very warmly received!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Honestly there is always a reason a horse does things like that, very rarely are they just naughty.

What type or work have you been doing?
How much?

What feed is he on?

Has he has physio/saddle/vet check?


Have you looked at things like the TRT Method?

Is it in certain situations or as soon as you get on?

Write it down and then see if you can see a pattern.

Can he go back for schooling? Was his routine different at the place he was backed?

I don't think it's because he just wants to jump all the time, they don't think like that.

 

[D66]

Id get in a behaviourist like Michael Peace or do the chiro vet Tom Beech thing - or both.

 

[Hallo2012]

could he have muscled up and outgrown current saddle? or just be sore from increased work?

i would get the standard back/tack/teeth done and see.

he could also just being a cheeky youngster looking for boundaries.

or bored-he should be doing mainly hacking atm IMO

 

[LaurenBobby]

Agree with SC, I don't think horses think in the way we do in terms of wanting to jump all the time. Sure some love it and poles etc can add interest to a routine.

Id deffo get all regular checks done to start with.

 

[AGray825]

I think I will get a general check up for him to make sure he's not sore anywhere, I have been thinking his teeth are due a check up around about now. I have got a vet chiro coming out to work on mine and my mum's mare, I may see if she can give him a check over at the same time (as she's a trained equine vet she might be able to tell me if I should get the vet out to give him a full check-up)

Unfortunately our hacking is limited and requires crossing a very busy main road to reach it, we're very landlocked where we are which is a pain because he did enjoy the hack work she did with him at the backer's yard

I do worry that the routine he has with me isn't a routine he likes as at the backer's yard there was always something to look at, some other horse being worked or taken out or yard work going on or something
Whereas I keep my horses at home with me and it's quite a quiet environment, he only really see's my mare going to do her work and go out, and with my mum's horses she has one older field companion Shetland and her mare who's undergoing KS rehab, so she's not doing loads.

Unfortunately I work long-ish hours (I leave around 7:30am and don't get back until nearly 6pm) and in that time there's not much happening on the yard.

So do we think I should run the risk of crossing the road to hack him out then rather than continue the schooling work that he doesn't seem to enjoy?
I should be able to start taking him out soon, but the box is off the road right now after making some odd noises!

 

[LaurenBobby]

Could you mum hack your other horse with you? Or even walk with you to make the hacking safer?

 

[vhf]

I did have one baby who "got the jumping bug" so badly that she'd think about nothing else - but that was because the jumps were there, in the schooling area. She just loved it (the adrenalin buzz??) so much, she'd try and tank over them at any opportunity and refuse to listen. But she still behaved perfectly in every other way. I put all the poles on the floor (not mine to move) and for 6 weeks every schooling session was flatwork around the poles, past the poles, between the poles, then eventually over the poles, until they stopped being so exciting. She never lost her love of jumping and would always take longer to settle around jumps, but could do a useful dressage test too.
I'd guess something else is going on here, any combination of pain/evasion/boredom/boundaries. Horses - they are sent to try us!

 

[Hallo2012]

Could you mum hack your other horse with you? Or even walk with you to make the hacking safer?

this get some foot soldiers or nanny horses involved and get him thinking forward and happy out hacking (provided all checks are clear)

 

[Auslander]

I'd get him looked at by the chiro vet, and all being well, get him straight across that road, and out hacking. I might think twice about hacking down a busy main road on an unruly youngster, but not simply crossing it.

 

[Brownmare]

I'd get him looked at by the chiro vet, and all being well, get him straight across that road, and out hacking. I might think twice about hacking down a busy main road on an unruly youngster, but not simply crossing it.

This ^^^ He sounds like an active horse with an active mind who is bored to tears. Of course, physical issues need ruling out first but that is my gut feeling from your description.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I feel OP your huge disappointment that this youngster hasn't turned out the way you wanted, or expected.

I feel your frustration that you wish you had more time to give him, and that he is rapidly becoming a "problem" you frankly don't know what to do with.

Perhaps he is beginning to frighten you a little??

My counsel to you (for what its worth) would be to have a serious discussion with yourself about how you perceive the future with this horse. Do you want to keep battling with him? You are already in the position where you can't enjoy riding out on him.......

There is no shame in admitting that this horse hasn't turned out the way you wanted him to - this is the risk with youngsters - and might not suit you, long term. He sounds very talented, but unfortunately due to his issues futuristically he is unlikely to be able to do stuff like jumping.

However, he might well make a very good all-rounder/riding club horse for someone who's prepared (and competent) enough to put in the work that he will need and bring him on......

Horses and riding are meant to be fun, and I get the feeling this horse is rapidly becoming nothing but a worry to you?? Also you have to consider the issue of your own safety.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear. Perhaps the person who backed him would be able to take him on for a bit of remedial and then sell him on for you?? Or know someone who can??

 

[AGray825]

I feel OP your huge disappointment that this youngster hasn't turned out the way you wanted, or expected.

I feel your frustration that you wish you had more time to give him, and that he is rapidly becoming a "problem" you frankly don't know what to do with.

Perhaps he is beginning to frighten you a little??

My counsel to you (for what its worth) would be to have a serious discussion with yourself about how you perceive the future with this horse. Do you want to keep battling with him? You are already in the position where you can't enjoy riding out on him.......

There is no shame in admitting that this horse hasn't turned out the way you wanted him to - this is the risk with youngsters - and might not suit you, long term. He sounds very talented, but unfortunately due to his issues futuristically he is unlikely to be able to do stuff like jumping.

However, he might well make a very good all-rounder/riding club horse for someone who's prepared (and competent) enough to put in the work that he will need and bring him on......

Horses and riding are meant to be fun, and I get the feeling this horse is rapidly becoming nothing but a worry to you?? Also you have to consider the issue of your own safety.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear. Perhaps the person who backed him would be able to take him on for a bit of remedial and then sell him on for you?? Or know someone who can??

Don't worry about whether it's what I want to hear or not! That is a discussion I've already had with myself and multiple people around me.
My concern with selling him on is his prior soundness issues. He's a big scopey boy and someone competent enough to get that out of him will want to pursue that, but I fear that will result in early lameness issues and I don't know what his quality of life would be after that

It might be a silly concern but that's still there in the back of my mind.

I would offer him to the person who backed him because I know how she looks after even her 'problem' horses and that would be good for him, but she's already said that she has too many horses to ride herself so the likelihood of her wanting another one who needs extra work is pretty slim.

What I might do is give him the rest of the Summer to see if we start gelling together, then if not I will think about asking the backer again whether she might be willing to take him on.

I've always been told he'd probably make a decent police horse!

Honestly, for myself, I do wonder if my future riding lies more with pony-types as even with all of her issues and challenges, I have so much fun with my Welsh D mare and we work together nicely!

 

[9tails]

I think something else is going on. You talk about him wanting to only jump now and being bored with schooling, the schooling part could be true but you'll usually find they slow down and go a bit sluggish rather than throwing shapes. Horses are generally amenable creatures who will do things as long they understand what's being asked or it doesn't hurt.

Saddle check, a jolly good massage and get the beast out hacking. Preferably in company for the first few times.

 

[Upthecreek]

It sounds to me like you two just aren’t really compatible, which is really sad but nobody’s fault. The old injury complicates things as far as finding the right home for him goes, but I think you should consider doing that. From the sounds of it he is a horse that would really benefit from lots of hacking to get out and see more of the world and you can’t really offer him that. 6 year olds tend to be quite challenging because they start questioning what they have learnt so far. Like people, some horses are happy living in a quiet environment with not much going on whilst others thrive on the stimulation of a busy yard. You can’t fit a square peg into a round hole no matter how much you may want to. As people say on here all the time, we should be enjoying our horses rather than constantly stressing over trying to make a partnership work if it just isn’t right. It’s never an easy decision to let a horse go, but often the best one for both horse and rider. Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[Hallo2012]

the trouble is, that assuming there is nothing wrong and horse is just bored and/or fresh.....99% of horses will go the same way if confined to schooling only and dont get the opportunity to hack or jump, so OP either needs to carefully select one of the rare few that detests hacking or accept she needs to broaden her horizons whatever the equine she owns? i know mine would be an absolute nob if he saw the school more than twice a week (he's 4yo) but as he mainly hacks he is THE most amenable and easy going dude (and his schooling continues to improve in those 2 short sessions too)

thats obviously something to consider once current horse is checked or sold.

 

[AGray825]

the trouble is, that assuming there is nothing wrong and horse is just bored and/or fresh.....99% of horses will go the same way if confined to schooling only and dont get the opportunity to hack or jump, so OP either needs to carefully select one of the rare few that detests hacking or accept she needs to broaden her horizons whatever the equine she owns? i know mine would be an absolute nob if he saw the school more than twice a week (he's 4yo) but as he mainly hacks he is THE most amenable and easy going dude (and his schooling continues to improve in those 2 short sessions too)

thats obviously something to consider once current horse is checked or sold.

I think what I might do, as the plan was to get on him again this evening after his session with the backer yesterday, but instead it might be an idea to at least lead him across the road to let him see the hacking route. I would rather lead first than be on top as a just in case type thing, see how he takes it all in you know

Where we used to live I had miles of hacking at my doorstop, and me and him used to walk everywhere together, but we didn't live onsite and my family wanted the house and field together and so we moved here and were initially told that the farmer next door would let us use the edge of his field to get to a hacking route without touching the road. And of course, we make the move and said farmer withdrew that offer so now we're stuck

Honestly I would love nothing more than to hack rather than school! But hacking needs to be safe for all parties involved and people fly up the road outside our house at speeds of nearly 90mph.... bad enough on a safe hacker, but awful on an opinionated youngster

There's a big part of me that's tempted to find a livery yard that offers part livery or something for him and do things that way, but I don't know if I can afford that every month!

 

[jj_87]

Hate to say it but it sounds like a horse in pain! I would get his back looked at and a lameness workup

 

[Hallo2012]

assuming all is ok can you box up and do farm rides etc with friends? i hack twice a week from home and then once a fortnight go off piste as mine is all rat run roads so pretty monotonous week after week (im lucky mine are safe in crap traffic)

 

[paddy555]

I don't know how you can do it time wise, busy road wise and everything else but I suspect if you rode him out hacking every day for a week and give him an interest and some stimulation you may well have a different horse. I think you have a 6 yo who, if you don't find him something interesting to do, is going to find mischief on his own. Why did the farmer withdraw the offer? Of course I don't know what he was offered but could you perhaps go back and ask if you can pay for a right to go along the field? see what his objection is and if there is some way round it?

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Nothing wrong with walking out in hand.

I still do it with mine and he has been backed five years. Sometimes we just go for a walk inhand together, it's still getting out and about.

 

[AGray825]

Well we had a nice in hand walk out, he was forward going, ears pricked forward, taking it all in and generally felt happy

Except we had a little in hand trot across the road and mum noted that he looked uncomfortable as he went but she couldn't pinpoint where
So the next step is to get Mr Vet out for a lameness work up I think!

He'll go out for another walk tomorrow evening though, we have a second track we can go down and I'm hoping that I can sweet talk the farmer and once the field is cut we might be allowed to walk down the side of it to get to the track into the nearby village!

 

[cornbrodolly]

My first thought is that the broken pedal bone is giving him discomfort. We were unlucky in that our lovely 5 yr old broke his [ field accident] and it did not heal/close together and he was PTS 8 weeks later. Although he was one of the 20% who do not initially get better , the percentage that are still ok/sound after 5 years is actually quite low. This was brought home to me when we saw Arkle s skeleton- I could easily see the break in his pedal bone [ and jokingly said so to my OH , not realising it was the case , and the cause of him being PTs after a few years] Sorry to be a doommonger , but thought I d say my experience , sad though it was. Hope you have better luck.

 

[AGray825]

My first thought is that the broken pedal bone is giving him discomfort. We were unlucky in that our lovely 5 yr old broke his [ field accident] and it did not heal/close together and he was PTS 8 weeks later. Although he was one of the 20% who do not initially get better , the percentage that are still ok/sound after 5 years is actually quite low. This was brought home to me when we saw Arkle s skeleton- I could easily see the break in his pedal bone [ and jokingly said so to my OH , not realising it was the case , and the cause of him being PTs after a few years] Sorry to be a doommonger , but thought I d say my experience , sad though it was. Hope you have better luck.

I'm very sorry to hear about your experience.... however he broke his pedal bone around 2 years ago now and has been fully sound on it for over a year (I wouldn't have sent him to be backed otherwise)
He was regularly x-rayed during the healing process and vets were happy with how it was stitching back together
Aside from one abscess last year he has been fine

What should have happened was he should have seen the Chiro after box rest and then again before backing started

Also I'm not sure the pain is emanating from that same foot, it seems more back area and therefore general discomfort to me but obviously I won't know until the vet comes to see him

I would assume that he wouldn't be happily walking along a stony track in a forward going pace if his pedal bone was causing problems.... he's always been a big wimp about his feet (understandably I think!)

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Well we had a nice in hand walk out, he was forward going, ears pricked forward, taking it all in and generally felt happy

Except we had a little in hand trot across the road and mum noted that he looked uncomfortable as he went but she couldn't pinpoint where
So the next step is to get Mr Vet out for a lameness work up I think!

He'll go out for another walk tomorrow evening though, we have a second track we can go down and I'm hoping that I can sweet talk the farmer and once the field is cut we might be allowed to walk down the side of it to get to the track into the nearby village!

Well done, sounds like he was his normal personality for you walking out so that will give an indication of under saddle he isn't happy.


Sounds like you have a good plan now.

Keep us updated.

Maybe get your mum to vidoe him trotting off on different surfaces to show the vet? Just in case it's not consistent.

 

[canteron]

Please don’t kill me for this but it might be worth looking at the Parelli 7 games (look there are other better methods but these are reasonably accessible). They ‘games’ do work their brains as well as their bodies and it really does make a difference.

I too was a Parelli mocker until I met a crazy lady who could ride quite mad horses without saddle and bridle and thought I might have something to learn from her - and I did!! It helps if you have a fun teacher to demystify bits of it - but even if you don’t the on line stuff is often enough to teach the horse to use its brain and not just react!

 

[AGray825]

Please don’t kill me for this but it might be worth looking at the Parelli 7 games (look there are other better methods but these are reasonably accessible). They ‘games’ do work their brains as well as their bodies and it really does make a difference.

I too was a Parelli mocker until I met a crazy lady who could ride quite mad horses without saddle and bridle and thought I might have something to learn from her - and I did!! It helps if you have a fun teacher to demystify bits of it - but even if you don’t the on line stuff is often enough to teach the horse to use its brain and not just react!

To be honest... okay it's not parelli but I was thinking about doing some le trec and straightness training with him
There's a straightness trainer about 30 mins drive from me and he used to do in hand le trec as a youngster (2/3 yo)
So it might be good to do some of that as well

As an update: vet is due out on Monday, gonna get his teeth done at the same time
In all your guys opinion... should I try riding him between now and Monday, or should I stick to doing in hand work for the time being?

 

[Equi]

I would stick to in hand or nothing at all until you know more tbh.

 

[canteron]

No hurry - why risk things when you have a plan? Le Trec sounds good, huge fan of anything that makes life more interesting for them and more controllable for us! To quote a trainer ... ‘don’t be brave, be trained’!!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Stick to inhand, make doing stuff together fun for your both.

See what the vet says and make a plan from there but just keep reminding yourself...... No pressure.