Am I being selfish??

[DabDab]

No you are not being selfish. TBH, I wouldn't want to sell to this woman, regardless of all the points that have been made by others.

Without wanting to sway with my own views, I have to agree. She seems like a bit of a shark and I'm afraid I don't have much respect for someone who seems to expect a 3yo to be perfect to load (though of course this is probably just a line, but it says something about how she views the OP)

 

[Rowreach]

Knowing what you paid for him, 500 less is far too little for him. I'd probably consider the higher offer though, especially if you're getting attached to him, which won't help down the line.

 

[Rowreach]

Without wanting to sway with my own views, I have to agree. She seems like a bit of a shark and I'm afraid I don't have much respect for someone who seems to expect a 3yo to be perfect to load (though of course this is probably just a line, but it says something about how she views the OP)

Especially a three year old that hasn't been anywhere except to the OP ...

 

[silv]

I would say I paid X that’s what I want back , why you would expect to turn a profit on the debacle I have no idea .
And if your friend is competent I would take her arm off and get out of it .

I would tend to agree with this.

 

[Theocat]

How much is it going to cost you per month to keep him in the short term?

 

[Apercrumbie]

Well how much will his value increase through working him? Is it more than what it would cost to keep him for x number of months? I would bet that keeping him costs far more than waiting for a better price - you're unlikely to add £2-5k in the next year. That said, I wouldn't accept the £500 lower offer either. It might be worth advertising him at a price you would accept and keep working him in the meantime.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

He is costing me £65 pcm in field rent which I pay to keep my place regardless as per my agreement with my landlord and my friend that I share the field with. So he's not exactly breaking the bank.
The woman who offered to buy him is seriously taking the piss, she's been extremely rude this afternoon and I won't be selling to her.
It does, however, raise the issue of maybe looking to advertise him....but I would need help to market him properly.

 

[Apercrumbie]

Hmmm her being rude at least takes the immediate conundrum away!

Well if he genuinely costs you that little (although that obviously doesn't include dentist, farrier, vets, jabs etc) then I would keep working him but think about advertising relatively soon to see who comes up.

 

[Gloi]

If you can keep him turned out with company through the summer and keep handling him he'll come on loads and you may change your mind one him.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Hmmm her being rude at least takes the immediate conundrum away!

Well if he genuinely costs you that little (although that obviously doesn't include dentist, farrier, vets, jabs etc) then I would keep working him but think about advertising relatively soon to see who comes up.

Yep, field rent is cheap. He's insured as well, just in case, but is relatively cheap to keep at the moment.

 

[McFluff]

Are you enjoying working with him? Are you learning and getting something out of this? How would you feel if you saw your perfect horse now, but couldn’t progress if you still had him? Only you know the answers. Providing you meet his food and shelter needs and seek help when needed, you aren’t necessarily a bad fit for him. And as you are (I assume) doing this as a hobby, the ongoing costs matter not, if you are enjoying this time.

 

[VRIN]

I suspect that she will ultimately turn into a timewaster if she's already changing her offer. However if it is genuine then I would sell. Selling horses is a soul destroying business at the best of times ... if you factor in the amount of time you will spend with timewasters and if someone does want to buy they will still try to haggle.... bird in the hand and all that...

 

[JJS]

I actually don't think you're being selfish. You've made a rather epic mistake in buying him, but you're now committed to turning him into a nice, polite youngster. If you really mean what you say, then staying with you for the next however many months can only be to his benefit. Let him settle for his own sake, keep working with him, and you'll be doing him a huge favour in the long run. If you feel like you're out of your depth, that's a different story, but for now, I think being with you is actually beneficial.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I actually don't think you're being selfish. You've made a rather epic mistake in buying him, but you're now committed to turning him into a nice, polite youngster. If you really mean what you say, then staying with you for the next however many months can only be to his benefit. Let him settle for his own sake, keep working with him, and you'll be doing him a huge favour in the long run. If you feel like you're out of your depth, that's a different story, but for now, I think being with you is actually beneficial.

Thank you. I'm definitely enjoying having him and working with him. He's a lovely boy deep down, he just has no idea how to behave. I've relaxed alot since the initial shock of him turning up a bit wild lol, I don't need to rush him and I'm in no rush for him to go. He is not as overwhelming as he first seemed but I admit I'm struggling with the biting which is why I'm trying to get some professional help with it but the rest of the issues I'm dealing with.
He's really smart, he learns quickly and is already starting to twig that I'm no pushover. I won't pretend that he's in any way respectful just yet but we are definitely seeing the cogs whirring in his mind about how to behave. There have already been improvements, albeit small ones, but he's trying and that's enough for now.
In my heart I know he can't be "the one" for me but I really do want to do right by him. My friend is adamant that selling him on so quickly would not be to his advantage, as long as things are done right while he's here.

ETA: this is in no way a money making exercise. I realise there will be on going costs involved in keeping him on for a while BUT I think he deserves some stability just now. This isn't about profit for me, if I have to spend out money but break even at the end of it I will be happy, I will feel a sense of achievement at a job well done, Bailey will hopefully have a better chance of finding the home he deserves and I will then be able to move on to a nice chilled out horse to have fun with

 

[paddi22]

It's a balance of how much he costs though I suppose? he isn't just costing livery costs alone, you are also shelling out for farrier/worming/time/paying a pro to break/saddle fitting/equipment/even fuel costs to get to yard etc.

Every day spent watching a youngster in a field is a day that could be have been spent with your dream horse.

Its nice watching a youngster in a field, but instead of doing that you could buy a different horse and be watching your perfect match of a horse - one who opens up possibilities for you achieveing a long-term riding goal or having memorable experiences like a beach ride or a holiday away hacking with friends, or finally being confident enough to jump a height you never thought you'd do.

Can anyone ever really make a profit on a youngster paying livery on it and having to pay a pro to break and train it? By the time you factor in ALL the costs it eats into your end profit. Even if the horse is a superstar you still need to pay for entries/training/schooling to get it to that level and prove its worth.

It just depends what you want from your horse riding life as well? I have youngsters every year, and they are all sweet and lovely and nice to get to know. But some got seriously injured and had to be pts, some turned out nothing as expected, and some just aren't what i want in a horse.

There is nothing to beat having a good partner of a horse you can jump on, trust and have fun with. If you have limited time, and are paying for livery, then what IS the best use of your time?

 

[Michen]

I just wanted to add, I know I've f**ked up. I really do. I bought him impulsively and unfairly (to him). But that doesn't mean I don't want to make things right.
I've made a promise that my next horse will be purchased with only careful planning and consideration. I have a good friend holding me to it too!!!
I realise I've made mistakes, several times. I know I'm not a saint but PLEASE cut me a little slack, I'm genuinely not trying to be a tit

I’m not suggesting Bailey will end up being “the one” for you but I don’t think you’ve f***** up.

When I bought Boggle I was not in my right state of mind. I honestly don’t know what I was thinking to buy a horse from Ireland, with sharp breeding, off Facebook filled with grief.

Yes it turned out great in the end with lots of money and tears.

But, one of my greatest achievements with Boggle is not the riding, it’s the travelling. That was the biggest amount of blood sweat tears of it all, and I fixed that, I taught him to travel when a pro failed, it took months and months and months and I still grin every time I load him up and drive away and he’s perfect.

My point is, you may well get satisfaction and pride from your time with him in all sorts of ways, however long that may be.

 

[Cortez]

Having kept horses as part of a business for more than 35 years I can tell you that they will cost on average £1,000 per head per year, and that's with owning the land and stables, and without any catastrophic vet bills. The faster you can turn a horse around the more likely you are to get out ahead.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Are you convinced he's not for you? I ask because I do wonder whether the reactions on here to sell him were as quick as your decision to buy him and I ask on the basis that a just arrived youngster isn't really a true reflection of the horse you will have.

This.

Just to add my two pennies worth.
When we brought the spotty he was 6, lightly started then left, just lent over no sitting. They had too many to back and she had to sell a few from the field.

He spent six months learning about livery yard life. He had never been off his breeders yard, never worn rugs(that is another story) but we just went slow but firm.
He had a bath
He played loading and in loading on the lorry with odd times having his hay net on in and trips round the yard.
He went in hand walks over poles, on the main yard and round the field.

I took my time in finding the right person for backing him.
I wanted a horse that would hack on his own and could understand walk/trot/and some semblance of canter.
And for me a horse that my disabled brother could ride so we told her what his legs and hands do and she worked that into her backing of him with the caution that if she thought he would not be suitable for him then she would tell us.

He went for six weeks and a lovely, level headed young man under saddle came back. Four years, I think, later and I have the same horse and he is still just as good.


Quite a few people said he wouldn't be suitable as he was a bit sharp and spooking when he first came.

So my advice, you have had him all of ten minutes you have no idea what he will be like I'm six months.
If you have a horse to ride, if you want to work with Bailey then work with him.
You might actually find out he is what you wanted after all.


P. S have a look at the try method. It's worked wonders on my friend and her Welsh. They are also teaching my sisters youngster, who is off to be backed by the same people as spotty in April, a few bits

 

[tankgirl1]

You say you enjoy working with him, you like him, so why would you sell him? Give it a bit of time and don't let the naysayers worry you into a decision that you may not have to make. FWIW I think it would be more selfish to sell him on so quickly before giving you both a bit of time

 

[blitznbobs]

Nowt wrong with being selfish if you’re not hurting anyone else... sell don’t sell it’s entirely your choice there are pros and cons to both and it seems you’re not as keen to see shut of him as once you were...

 

[Bob notacob]

Nowt wrong with being selfish if you’re not hurting anyone else... sell don’t sell it’s entirely your choice there are pros and cons to both and it seems you’re not as keen to see shut of him as once you were...

So many good posts , my like button is feeling overworked . go with your gut instinct. Right or wrong you will be able to live with it.

 

[Megan V1]

I bought a cob over 10 years ago and knew within a matter of weeks he wasn't the horse for me but because he had been through a few homes in the months leading up to me buying him I felt I couldn't put him up for sale again so quickly so decided to keep him a while, big mistake, I still have him and now he will stay for the rest of his days as I became very fond of him even though I don't ride him. I wish in hind sight I had sold him on before getting so attached I couldn't see him go. He is healthy and happy being a field ornament but a waste really of a very beautiful, well bred Welsh D who could have done so much with the right owner. Not sure he minds though but it does mean I can't have a horse to ride as well.

 

[Goldenstar]

Almost all horses are lovable and OP wanted a horse to ride .
With interesting but funky breeding and bottle reared this is unlikely to a straight forward journey .
OP’s guts called it right when she got the horse home she had bought a dream and the reality was a shock .
The world is full of people labouring on with the wrong horse .

 

[TPO]

I don't think that you are selfish and it's natural to get attached but I do think you should sell asap.

I have only read your posts since purchasing Bailey and I don't know your history beyond what other people have alluded to. You yourself have said that B isn't what you want or need in a horse and that perhaps you don't have the experience or confidence to bring on a *"difficult" horse. *as in hand reared/orphan type horses are always going to be tricky and need very experienced handling.

While it's tempting to run him on and "add value" there's also the risk of decreasing value as his "misbehaviour" is able to continue i.e. his biting. Having bought a biter previous, and consider myself confident and competent, it was pretty scary at times dealing with him and ultimately rectifying the behaviour. It would have been so easy for that to escalate and for him to have taken a "win" if even an inch was given.

You've also previously mentioned a lack of facilities in that you don't have stabling, an arena or transport. While that's not the be all and end all it certainly doesn't make things easy for you. Not having a safe enclosed space to work him or the ability to practice loading doesn't help at all.

Then there's also sods law that when you decide to run him on that he'll do something resulting in a vets bill (been there!)

Honestly you have nothing to prove and wouldn't you much rather be going into spring with your ideal match and have lots of fun to look forward to? It is supposed to be fun after all and a hobby/release.

Can you ask your friend about their friend who is interested in buying Bailey? She might be looking to produce and sell him but if she is a good horsewoman this doesn't have to be a bad thing. Correct training is life insurance for horses and a well mannered and schooled Bailey is a lot safer then a biting one. He's a lot of horse to deal with for anyone not experienced.

The problem with the internet is that when you advertise him it probably won't take long for someone to find all these posts about him. Understa fly some were written in the heat of the moment and seemed bigger at the time but in black and white, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't paint a very good picture of the horse and it's certainly come across that he is quite quirky/has issues. With the value of hindsight I'd say sell him asap, ideally through word of mouth, and aim to get your money back.

He could be worth more and he is very handsome but you paid that not knowing what he is like/his history and now people do know he's not the blank canvas that's ready for work.

So in summary of reconsider the friend of a friend, I'd find a good home where you get your money back (actually surprised you've not been swamped by PMs on here!), buy YOUR horse and have fun!

 

[Michen]

Almost all horses are lovable and OP wanted a horse to ride .
With interesting but funky breeding and bottle reared this is unlikely to a straight forward journey .
OP’s guts called it right when she got the horse home she had bought a dream and the reality was a shock .
The world is full of people labouring on with the wrong horse .

That is true, and I agree, but sometimes it CAN work. If I had made a thread on here 12 months ago about the kind of horse Boggle is and how he was/could behave, and the kind of rider I was (aka terrified), I have no doubt everyone would have said get rid he's never going to be the one for you as plenty of instructors did. It would have been such a mistake.

I'm not saying this horse is ever going to be suitable for the OP, I think more than anything because the only way he may be vaguely suitable is with a huge amount of investment with professional help and probably facilities when the time comes (which I believe OP doesn't want to spend- understandably)… but its not unfeasible for a horse which is wrong on paper to turn good. And realistically this horse has been there for a matter of weeks, it's no time at all to really know...

 

[splashgirl45]

well i will chip in, he is not the horse for you, that has been established. he needs to learn some manners.agreed... if you can work with him (get help if needed) for a while and get than ae manners part sorted ,he will have a better chance of a nice home

....i am looking at it from his point of view, he has left his mum and the only home he knew ,was forced into a box for 2nd travel experience (the first being when he went to the vet to be gelded) and he is unsettled and defensive, how much better for him if you can show a well mannered attractive horse with potential....i am not thinking of the money and if you can get back what you paid then you can start looking again or maybe save for the summer and look again at the beginning of next winter as prices can be lower then. good luck with whatever you decide...

 

[gunnergundog]

I am going to be blunt.....everyone is posting with the best of intentions I know, based on their own experiences. However, I really don't think that any of us are doing the OP any favours.

I would counsel her that she listens to the individual I have dubbed 'the sane friend'; this is the individual who came to assess her and her horse when she had just taken delivery of him and was having a bit of a 'meltdown', for want of a better word. I don't believe that any of us know the OP in real life and have a genuine understanding of her experience and skills. Nor have any of us seen the horse in the flesh. The 'sane friend' has and based on what the OP posted after the assessment, she seemed accepting of the verdict, which to me seemed reasonable. By posting different views we are now all clouding the issue and probably contributing to another 'crisis' for the OP.

From what I have read, I would support the 'sane friend'. This is not the horse for the OP and she should sell. I don't believe this horse was 2 stage vetted prior to purchase (at least it was never mentioned on here!) and such vettings can throw all sorts of spanners in the works. So, if there is an offer on the table to take the horse as seen NOW, I would bite the hand off. Ignore the rudeness and just consider that you are saving the cost of the professional you have lined up to advise on the biting, the cost of advertising, the hassle of viewing, the cost of insurance, the potential for the horse to devalue itself by accident in the field or for something to come up via vetting that would put the majority of purchasers off, or at least lead to a substantial discount......more than the 500 less that is the case at the moment.

Also, the OP mentioned earlier that this was a 'not for profit' exercise.....fine, but there is no guarantee that you can get back your interim investment in full by any means! You pay X for the horse, you pay Y for the professional biting consultant, you pay Z for the pro backer. New price of horse is not necessarily X+Y+Z. It just doesn't work that way. Ask anyone who has bred their own.

I would also suggest, based on previous posts and horses you have posted about, that you may be best off selling NOW and having a while horse free when you can save some more pennies to buy the sort of horse that would be better suited to you. Yes, you can get the occasional bargain, but I would, with your history, bite the bullet, save your money and get something that is reasonably priced given your requirements as opposed to bargain basement. Sorry if that is harsh, but trying to save you further heartache/hassle/aggro.

 

[SO1]

The market for horses fluctuates according to supply and demand, with Brexit the economy is uncertain, keeping him longer won't guarantee you will get your money back if you sell even if his behaviour improves.

I think you need to consider was the price you originally paid a fair price in today's market for a horse of his type. If you wait another 6 months could his value deteriorate either due to him not progressing quickly enough compared to other horses of his age or changes in the equine market. What is your attitude towards risk? Are you the sort of person who gets very emotionally attached to horses is there a risk that the longer you keep him the more attached you get and harder it is to sell him even though you know he is not suitable?

The best thing you can do to secure a good future for your horse is ensure he is easy to handle and ride, do you have the skills and facilities to do this or the money to pay someone to help you do this, if not passing him on to someone who can do this is possibly the best thing you can do if you do not want to keep him yourself long term.

Do you think the lady has the skills to turn him into a nice useful youngster and help him find a suitable home? Is the price she is offering a fair one based on where he is now? When you bought him did you know he had a loading problem? A horse that is tricky to load is not just a nuisance if you want to compete but also if you want to move yard, or need to take it to the vet so it does not just affect competition riders.

 

[Winters100]

In my opinion it depends upon how 'low' the current offer is. If it is a bit below market, but not way out of the ballpark, I would take it and move on. If it is a 'silly' offer then keep looking for a proper buyer.

I had similar situation last year when I was offered 1.5k for a horse from someone at the same yard. They knew that he was not a good fit for me and that I was afraid of him, but he was a super horse, nothing wrong other than he was far too good for me. I kept him in training with a pro, and sold him for 16k to a buyer from Germany about 6 weeks later. Extreme example I know, but I am very happy that I did not take the advice of the YO who told me that if I didn't enjoy him to just let him go. Whatever you decide good luck!

 

[ester]

It's all very well saying the OP wanted/wants a ridden horse but the reality of that (having also followed for a long time) was that something appropriate within her low budget was not very forthcoming, hence looking for a younger horse?