Am I being unreasonable

Rockchick

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I am currently trying to put 1 of my horses on Part / Full loan

the only things I am asking are

1) That he stays on current yard
2) Part loan - 3 days per week to inc 1 weekend day -50% of livery and 50% shoeing costs plus 100% of any "non routine" vet bills occuring on loaner days (such as if he got injured while they were riding him etc)
3) full loan (7 days) 100% of livery and shoes plus 100% of any "non routine" vet bills

Ive had enquiries from people asking if he can move yards or if i'd consider less "financial" input...

im not asking a lot really am i?
 

YasandCrystal

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The only bit I would quibble would be the 100% non routine vet bill. What if the horse is injured in the paddock on a 'sharer day'? I think 50% would be fairer. Is the horse not insured?
 

charlene88

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I think that the vets bills should be your responsibility while is on part loan. Why not have him insured then if anything happens this is a small excess. I understand totally about wanting to keep him on the same yard definitely a good idea. For full loan you are right about them paying 100% of things maybe you could offer to pay for wormers and small things like that.
 

CBFan

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For the part loan, have you worked out his weekly cost? Could you then charge it at £x per day / week rather than % which could be an un-known quantity and might be off-putting.

I would insist that any loaner is insured, which should cover ny eventuality (even rider only plans have vet fees cover).

I would only insist on part loaner paying vet fees if the incident occurred while she was riding or if it was due to his / her negligence... I'm not sure that you can hold them accountable for field injuries or illness etc and if you are to make them accountable you run the risk of them leaving your horse untreated until 'your day' to avoid paying out...
 

Rockchick

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for full loan i only want them to pay livery and shoes and "non-routine" vet bills (100% costs) i will be paying everything else.

He is insured but we only use this as a last resort

the "non routine vet bills" for part loan would only be for them riding him & negligence issues so i dont see a problem.

He's on full livery in the week and DIY at weekends and im down most nights anyway to work my other horse so nothing would go un-noticed :)
 

Jo_x

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For full loan that is more than fair enough, you will just have to be patient in finding the right person who is willing to keep him at the same yard, as many people already have a yard in mind when looking for a loan, or may be a bit too far away, etc.

I would be quite put off by that when looking at part loan adverts though in all honesty, for me one of the main reasons Im not in a position to have my own horse is due to the risk of unexpected vets bills which Im not able to afford. Obviously if it was due to my negligence I would offer to pay it. Also I see one of the main benefits of owning my own horse being able to decide how its kept, what tack it wears, all the little day to day decisions that everyone does differently. As a part loaner I would not expect to have a say in this (in my experience most owners do listen to input) as ultimately the horse belongs to the owner, and I would feel a little cheated if I was paying exactly half the costs but did not have half the say in the management of the horse.

In the past I have paid slightly less than half the running costs of the horses I have shared, and have not been expected to pay towards vet bills (although if they were my fault I of course would have) and thats worked very well for both parties.

ETA - just seen your reply above. I think for full loan especially thats a good deal if you are paying for bedding, feed etc. Maybe try stating a fixed figure for the part loan advert as that may be more attractive to people knowing an upfront number. If vets fees are only as a result of negligence then I wouldnt put that in the advert (if you have) Id just mention it when they come to view the horse - most people are careful so it wouldnt be a dealbreaker, and if they arent willing to pay a vets bill that is their fault you probably are better of without them anyway!!
 
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Honey08

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The vets bills bit would totally scare me away. I would rather the horse be insured and pay a contribution towards that for peace of mind. Allsorts of expensive accidents can happen, just because they happened on the loaner's day doesn't make it their fault, and if they aren't allowed to be insured... not good for them. Doesn't mean they won't still be careful..

While I can understand why people would want their horse to stay at their own yard, if its full loan it really limits potential loaners to a small catchment area and means you miss out on some good potential loaners. I've had ponies on loan for my stepson - I'm an AI with my own private yard and 20 acres but I wouldn't fit into your spec...
 

SpottedCat

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I don't understand the rationale with insurance being 'last resort' - if your horse has any non-routine vets visits then you have to declare this to the insurance company, and they can (and probably will) slap an exclusion on after 1 year. If you don't declare non-routine visits, then your insurance is invalid if they request a full veterinary history when you do make a claim (which they can and will do). So anything which costs more than the excess you may as well claim for, and anything under the excess still needs to be declared.
 

YasandCrystal

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I don't understand the rationale with insurance being 'last resort' - if your horse has any non-routine vets visits then you have to declare this to the insurance company, and they can (and probably will) slap an exclusion on after 1 year. If you don't declare non-routine visits, then your insurance is invalid if they request a full veterinary history when you do make a claim (which they can and will do). So anything which costs more than the excess you may as well claim for, and anything under the excess still needs to be declared.
Exactly this. You can get away with that with cars, but not horses,
 

Princess Jess

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Sounds very reasonable for full loan.

I've been looking for a horse on part loan and have never been expected to pay for unexpected vets bills. Personally that would put me off completely...but other than that what you're asking seems fair :)
 

lornaA

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i currently have a horse on loan. I am responsible for all her expenses while i have her so i pay her livery, feed, bedding, farrier, vet bills of all kinds, worming, insurance everything just as you would if she was my own horse. Also i have her at my yard of choice. Had she been on part loan i guess its down to the owner what they are offering for what financial contribution. Especially for a part loan i would recommend a loan agreement so everyone knows exactly where they stand.
 

Booboos

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I think that if you can't find anyone that you are asking for too much.

If I had a horse on full loan and had to pay for all that I would expect to be able to move the horse to a yard of my choice. If I had a horse on a share I would not want to be stuck with that many costs. The "non-routine" vet calls on the sharer's days is an ambiguous requirement to my mind...what if the horse starts colicking on the sharer's day but doesn't need the vet until the next day? What if the horse gets injured on the sharer's day but while under the care of the YM? What if the horse needs repeat visits on sharer's days but got injured on owner's days? Much better to have a good vet insurance.
 

ofcourseyoucan

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no you are not being unreasonable! but loaners often expect the owner to subsidise their hobby!! dont forget it costs £25 upwards for a 1 hr group lesson, and £30 for a 2 hour accompanied group hack at a decent riding establishment! and as you own the horse yes you do know how much they cost you! horses are not cheap .. loaners that do not want to contribute should just trot on by.....
 
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xspiralx

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no you are not being unreasonable! but loaners often expect the owner to subsidise their hobby!! dont forget it costs £25 upwards for a 1 hr group lesson, and £30 for a 2 hour accompanied group hack at a decent riding establishment! and as you own the horse yes you do know how much they cost you! horses are not cheap .. loaners that do not want to contribute should just trot on by.....
You have a point but then again the loaner is also subsidising the owner's hobby if they are contributing to costs!

OP - I think your costs are too high - 3 days a week is not half the week, so why 50% of the costs? You're also not giving them 50% of the decision making ability regarding his keep and care so I don't think it is fair to ask for half of his running costs.

I also don't think a 100% contribution to vets bills is right - there are too many variables. How do you define negligence for example? Who decides who is responsible and who is liable - presumably you, and you're not likely to be objective.

You have to think about how attractive your proposition is to the prospective loaner - for half the costs for keeping your horse on full livery they could probably get their own on DIY!
 

Paris1

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No way I would touch with the vets fee clause.
Also three days a week isn't half and you may struggle to find someone Willing to pay half livery and half shoeing. Going rate in my area is around 25 pw.
 

ester

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2) 100% of any "non routine" vet bills occuring on loaner days (such as if he got injured while they were riding him etc)
I don't think that this is workable, and if not careful might lead to loaner not reporting something on 'their' day so that they are not responsible for it. Also what about if the loaner rides one day, horse is fine, horse comes out the next day lame as the result of a tweak? Who is responsible? you would be better off asking for a proportion of his insurance cost imo.

Our loan horse, kept at ours we paid full keep for apart from vets bills which were paid by the owner (and his insurance).

I think if you are doing 'full loan' then the loaner can be expected to take on all of the finances BUT you are going to be restricted on people who will want to do that at your current yard.
 

rowan666

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i dont think expecting a part loan to pay any vets fees is very reasonable although on a full loan you would expect the loaner to pay ALL costs etc although i know a few owners who pay the insurance but in the event of an accident loaner is expected to pay excess

could you not consider letting letting him move yards on full loan within half hours drive?

i couldnt imagine anyone would want to pay for a horse on part loan that was on full livery sems totally pointless plus they could keep a horse full time on DIY for the same money
 

HuntingPink

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3 days isn't half a week so 50% isn't really reasonable. I don't agree with 100% vet bill either unless you can prove negligence.

I'd do a daily rate plus a contribution to insurance and 3/7ths of the shoeing cost.
 

chestnut cob

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Yes I think you're being unreasonable. Three days out of seven is not half of the week so paying half of the costs is expecting too much. I will probably look at getting a sharer for my horse in the spring; I would offer 3 days a week and probably just ask for his shoeing costs and a contribution to livery (my basic DIY livery is £130 pcm so I might ask for £50 a month plus shoes), as well as poo picking/ mucking out on their days. I wouldn't ask for a contribution to insurance and/or vets fees because I would want to retain full control of any veterinary stuff. I wouldn't want the loaner to have any say in vet treatment, those decisions are mine, so I wouldn't ask for any contribution. I also have to say that if you're thinking there is a chance your loaner might injure the horse through "negligence" then you're looking at the wrong sort of people.

I have my horse on full, permanent loan and I pay 100% of all costs, his owners have next to nothing to do with him (they live 150 miles away, have never been to see him and only respond to emails/texts if I've sent them exciting looking hunting photos!). I put my Welsh cob out on loan and he was about 1.5hrs drive away, it worked out really well in the end. If you find the right people, try to be flexible.
 

emma.is

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The vet bills on part loan are yes. The reason a lot of people part loan is for the stability. They pay £x amount a week no more no less.

It would 100% put me off.

IMO
Full loan should be 100% normal yard bills, 100% farrier/dentist bills and you should pay at least 50% if not 100% of vets bills and insurance

Part loan should be 50% yard bills, 50% farrier dentist bills and you pay insurance and vets bills.
 
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