Am I Doing The Right Thing?

L

loverly

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 July 2010
Messages
559
Location
In the middle of nowhere (Devon!!)
Visit site
To cut a long story short (see previous posts) I've had an absolute horse of a lifetime for the past 3 year since he was broken in. We've had out ups and downs but for the last 6-12 months, things just haven't been going our way.

It started with some serious napping when hacked out alone and then in November he refused to move when I got on him. Had the physio out at she was very concerned about his back. After a visit to the vets he was diagnosed with KS with one impinging vertebrae and PSD in his near hind. Hes had almost three months off work.

His hind leg has been improving and now about 1 or 2 10ths lame but his back is in serious pain. You just have to go near his back and he'll move away from you, if you touch him his ears go flat back and he dips his back considerably.

Now, the vet came over this morning and said the only option would be to go for two operations on his back and leg. But there is less that a 50% chance he'll be able to be ridden again, and if he is this will most probably be only a light hack and he is not a hacking horse - he lives for his work. And even if I had decided to go for the operation he doesn't have the best conformation and it is likely his hocks will cause problems down the line as he moves very closely. The vet did mention putting him down, and shes not the type to just say it.

He is only rising 7 and hasn't been over ridden and only been lightly competed (three times last year) so it isn't really wear and tear.

So I've made the decision to have him PTS, but I'm feeling dreadful about it as I totally adore this horse (he's my only horse.)

Have I made the right decision?

Should I be there when they do the deed so to speak?

Cookies and cream if you get this far!
 
Personally I think you should be there for him when the deed gets done, it's kinder and to be honest - wouldn't you want your best friend there for your last breath? I most certainly wouldn't want to pass on surrounded by strangers (just my opinion of course)

In a perfect world we'd all be able to afford to keep all of our sickly paddock ornaments but unfortunately it isn't fair to them or to us, especially not if your boy was so young and he still WANTED to do things

It's kinder to put him to sleep

-hugs- Someday in the next life (if you believe in that kind of thing) I'm sure he'll thank you for being such a kind mommy
 
Last edited:
You may have made the right decision, yes. Without knowing the full facts about your horse, I could not comment. I can only urge you to fully investigate the prognosis first. I say that because my dedicated horse vet was dead set against the operation for KS. My boy is nine years old and had TEN impinging vertebra! I did lots of research, including talking to people on here and found that the success rate for the op is actually very good! It is around 75%. I opted for the operation despite my own vet's advice and had him operated on to remove five of his spinal processes. He was standing awake for the surgery and it was done with sedation and local anaesthetic. I can honestly say that when I fetched him a week after his op, he walked to the horsebox with a much longer more comfortable stride. He was an absolute angel on box rest and never seemed uncomfortable. After 2 weeks I was able to walk him in hand and two weeks after that he could be turned out. He is a changed horse, moves much more freely, walk is swinging and long, trot - he is now able to track up, and canter is much more supple. I can't start proper work with him for another week, but I am in no rush as he is so full of beans in this weather, that I think I will take it really slowly until the spring. Of course I am not sure if I will be able to ride him again, but at least I know he is pain free at liberty judging by the acrobatic displays he exhibits! So fingers crossed...

As your boy is young and only has one impinging vertebra, then personally, I would go for the op. However, I do not know about his other condition. My boy also has significant hock artritis, but it was the KS that was causing him all the pain.

Of course, all horses are different, and as I said, I do not know all the facts about your boy. It may be that in his case he is best PTS, but on the face of what you have said (and not having all of the facts), I would say give him a chance. But if he is the type that cannot handle box rest (four weeks) then it is best to let him go. I really feel for you, and you know your horse and his situation better than I.
 
You are doing the right thing, try and be there if you can, i have been with mine twice, just make sure other people are there so you can walk away after.

I am so sorry this has happened, horses break your heart thats for sure, be brave, all he will know is he is going to sleep :(
 
Wagtail said:
You may have made the right decision, yes. Without knowing the full facts about your horse, I could not comment. I can only urge you to fully investigate the prognosis first. I say that because my dedicated horse vet was dead set against the operation for KS. My boy is nine years old and had TEN impinging vertebra! I did lots of research, including talking to people on here and found that the success rate for the op is actually very good! It is around 75%. I opted for the operation despite my own vet's advice and had him operated on to remove five of his spinal processes. He was standing awake for the surgery and it was done with sedation and local anaesthetic. I can honestly say that when I fetched him a week after his op, he walked to the horsebox with a much longer more comfortable stride. He was an absolute angel on box rest and never seemed uncomfortable. After 2 weeks I was able to walk him in hand and two weeks after that he could be turned out. He is a changed horse, moves much more freely, walk is swinging and long, trot - he is now able to track up, and canter is much more supple. I can't start proper work with him for another week, but I am in no rush as he is so full of beans in this weather, that I think I will take it really slowly until the spring. Of course I am not sure if I will be able to ride him again, but at least I know he is pain free at liberty judging by the acrobatic displays he exhibits! So fingers crossed...

As your boy is young and only has one impinging vertebra, then personally, I would go for the op. However, I do not know about his other condition. My boy also has significant hock artritis, but it was the KS that was causing him all the pain.

Of course, all horses are different, and as I said, I do not know all the facts about your boy. It may be that in his case he is best PTS, but on the face of what you have said (and not having all of the facts), I would say give him a chance. But if he is the type that cannot handle box rest (four weeks) then it is best to let him go. I really feel for you, and you know your horse and his situation better than I.
Click to expand...

I actually do somewhat agree with this^^^. Make dead sure of the prognosis, my palomino boy had to have a penile amputation not too long ago (don't know if you heard) and it was actually suggested to us to have him put down as well as he is an "older horse" (17 years old) and his recovery might be long and painful... It's 2 weeks down the line and despite what the vet originally said, we went through with the op (though it's left a nice little hole in our wallets) and he's allowed to start working again on Wednesday. Vet says it was one of the quickest recoveries she's ever seen

But you know what's right for your boy and only you can judge whether or not the op will be worth it (for you and him) in the end
 
Firstly, massive hugs on their way to you.
Secondly, I think you're being incredibly responsible, you know him best and you know he wont suit just hacking and that's just him, and him being happy is the priority, and if after the op he's not going to be happy and enjoying life, I think you're doing the best thing for him by giving him a peaceful end now.
 
He's your horse, you know him best and nobody makes a decision to PTS on a whim so, IMHO you are doing the right thing. He also sounds like he's in considerable pain already and neither of those procedures are minor...Not an easy choice but sometimes the only one.

FWIW, at such a young age with only light work and less then perfect confirmation I really don't think that ops are the answer for him just for other potential problems to arise.

Just a little word of advice, if you are on a yard be careful who you discuss your decision with, it is a very emotive subject and you really don't need every Tom, Dick and Harry putting their tuppence worth in - it makes an already difficult time absolutely horrendous. Ask me how I know.
 
I'd be guided by your vets and if as you say they don't suggest pts lightly, then they obviously feel it is the right thing to do. As for being there, then it is entirely up to you, if you think you will be upset and upset the horse then it might be best to say your goodbyes and leave him with the staff for the deed. Your horse won't know what is happening, it is sometimes the kindest gift we can give them to prevent further pain and suffering.
 
a hard decision and not one you've made lightly i'm sure, you know him better than anyone and if you think that PTS is the right option for him then that is the right decision.x
 
Also I wanted to add that my boy has also had an operation to remove bone fragments from one hock. We had a horse at my yard with PSD that was operated on and she came back to full soundness, jumping and dressage. These operations are improving all the time. I don't know where you are based, but there is also a very minor op for KS that is done at Cotts Equine in South Wales. This is especially successful with horses that have fewer impinging vetebrae such as your horse. It involves just snipping the ligaments between the processes which allows them to separate. Horses can go home the same day and can be ridden after 6 weeks. The success rate is extremely high, over 85% I believe.
 
Big hugs! What a horrific decision to have to make :(
Whichever choice you take, you can never know whether or not you've made the 'right' decision and there will be a part of you that always wonders...
I agree that it would be worth seeking a second opinion from another vet, googling around and ringing round horsey friends, as KS isn't uncommon and there are bound to be people in your area who have experienced a similar dilemma. That way, whatever decision you make, you will know for sure that you really did do everything you could. As long as you feel you are making an informed decision, then it can't be a wrong one.
 
Last edited:
loverly said:
But there is less that a 50% chance he'll be able to be ridden again, and if he is this will most probably be only a light hack and he is not a hacking horse - he lives for his work...


...So I've made the decision to have him PTS, but I'm feeling dreadful about it as I totally adore this horse (he's my only horse.)

Have I made the right decision?

Should I be there when they do the deed so to speak?

Cookies and cream if you get this far!
Click to expand...
Oh golly what a hard decision to have to make but it's one that only you can make.

I personally couldn't have one of my horses PTS knowing there was a decent enough chance of recovery with medical intervention.

I was under the impression that KS surgery success rates were higher?

As to horses being dead-set competition horses. It really isn't so for the majority of horses. I have many ex multi-level competition horses (all mares) who have settled down well to being broodmares. Obviously your gelding wouldn't quite fit this bill but the point is that many competition horses can settle down and enjoy a more carefree lifestyle.

So ^^^ those would be my reasons for not ending this horse's life were he mine, but you must make decisions based on your own rationalisation including what works for your chequebook, your peace of mind and in the best interests of THIS horse. Good luck. I don't envy you :(
 
I agree with the above - get a second opinion or more until you are sure however far better you have him PTS than he spends a life at best 'uncomfortable'. A friend of mine has put their horse through all the ops/treatment for this and the horse is still not right. If you don't want to be there when he is PTS is there someone that he knows that would hold him ? Remember he has no idea what is happening so he doesn't go through the trauma you will. So sorry if that's the decision you have to make.
 
^^^^ this, I completly agree with all of that post.

However, you know your situation best , so only you really know the best way forward.

Think it might be worth getting a 2nd opinion for your own peace of mind.

Big hugs whatever you decided
 
I would get a second opinion for your own peace of mind..and if you do decide to have him pts you must make your own decision about whether or not you are there im the end. You bawling your heart out is not going to help your horse so you need to take a view on you will react.
 
Looking at it from a financial perspective, if you are insured, then there may be problems if he is PTS before all avenues are exhausted.
 
I agree with Wagtail and others - if you can afford to, get a further opinion - I personally would be finding out about the place in South Wales that someone mentioned.
As for the PSD - you might find that comes right when the back comes right - it can be linked to other things. The operation on the PSD is most likely to be a neurectomy and fasciotomy - successful normally, although it can lead to the horse being more likely to break down in the future.
Mine has PSD and myself and a number of vets have had the neurectomy conversation. I have decided against it as it doens't sit comfortably with me but I've heard a lot of good things about it.
The thing is - only you know your horse and only you know the level of pain he is in. If you decide to PTS then don't feel guilty about it, you've obviously thought long and hard about it. Sometimes we just can't bear to put ourselves or our animals through any more trauma and you yourself know when enough is enough.
If you do decide to have him PTS I would stay while he is sedated as he will then be out of it anyway. I didn't stay with mine while he was given the somulose (PTS drug) as I didn't want to see him go down, but I went back when he was gone and stayed a while with him.
Good luck with whatever you decide - whatever decision you make will be the right one. x
 
How strange the OP has not come back at all on this thread. :confused:

ETA: Now I don't usually do this, but looked back on some of the OPs other posts as she refers to her other posts at the start of the thread.

To cut a long story short (see previous posts)
Click to expand...

He's is my only horse
Click to expand...

And find a post from last month which says:

I've got a youngster by Bandmaster.

He has the mos lovely temperament but is quirky at the same time. A 11 year old happily leads him around, takes rugs off etc.. and the horse is not even 3 yet and only had 2 months handling.

I am looking forward to breaking him in as I think it'll be... err.... interesting but fun!
Click to expand...

So the seven year old talked about at the start of this thread is not the OP's 'only horse' as she also has this 3 year old?

Now I don't mind giving advice but why lie to people when you ask for it? Or is there an innocent explanation? Sorry if I have this all wrong but I always get suspicious when posters don't come back to a thread they start.
 
Last edited:
To comment above the TB is my mums horse not my own.

This is the second opinion and the first was very similar opinion about him and outcome.

I do know that individually that the problems can be fixed and as you say wagtail I did not put all details of his problems on here neither am I constantly on HHO to reply to people. He would not havr a successful long term outcome as he does have small niggly problems with his hocks already and therefore I would be subjecting a horse to constant operations/prodding and poking.
 
Sounds like a horrible position to be in, but you know your horse and if you're already on the second opinion and it agrees with the first then it seems to me that it's the right choice.

Heartbreaking situation, I really feel for you and having been there too know exactly how hard it is. Big hugs. xx
 
loverly said:
This is the second opinion and the first was very similar opinion about him and outcome.

He would not havr a successful long term outcome as he does have small niggly problems with his hocks already and therefore I would be subjecting a horse to constant operations/prodding and poking.
Click to expand...

This would be the clincher for me I'm afraid. I'm sorry but it sounds that pts is the right action for this lad.
 
loverly said:
To comment above the TB is my mums horse not my own.

This is the second opinion and the first was very similar opinion about him and outcome.

I do know that individually that the problems can be fixed and as you say wagtail I did not put all details of his problems on here neither am I constantly on HHO to reply to people. He would not havr a successful long term outcome as he does have small niggly problems with his hocks already and therefore I would be subjecting a horse to constant operations/prodding and poking.
Click to expand...
You've obviously made up your mind. I thought so on reading your first post tbh so there was little point asking anyones opinion as all it does is serve to confuse. So long as you are comfortable with the decision you've made and, much as it's not something that I personally could live with, it is a healthy place for you to be. Good luck, I hope it goes smoothly and yes I would and always have been with my horses at the end.
 
Only you know if you are making the right decision.

From what you have said said would agree with you.

It must be so tough, I really real.for you.

As for being there, again your choice but I would, last bit comfort and reasurance for him.
 
loverly said:
To comment above the TB is my mums horse not my own.

This is the second opinion and the first was very similar opinion about him and outcome.

I do know that individually that the problems can be fixed and as you say wagtail I did not put all details of his problems on here neither am I constantly on HHO to reply to people. He would not havr a successful long term outcome as he does have small niggly problems with his hocks already and therefore I would be subjecting a horse to constant operations/prodding and poking.
Click to expand...

My horse has been poked and prodded about, so presumably you think I was wrong to put him through it. All I can say is that I have a very healthy and happy horse who is full of the joys of life. I don't regret a minute of it. I have to say though that I did consider retirement or PTS when I realised the extent of his KS and in view of his hock problems. I thought it was selfish of me, but I am so pleased I went through with it. Everyone who sees him cannot believe the extent of his surgery. I can honestly say he is the perkiest happiest horse I have ever seen. I think he must feel SO good that his pain has been removed.

The KS op that your horse would need is miniscule in comparison to my boy, and so I would not be at all worried about that. What options would he have regarding his hocks? Is he insured? Obviously, if he isn't then that's a different kettle of fish altogether.
 
if you adore him you are doing the right thing, he is in pain, you can keep him alive but it will be for you as he wont know anything about it. People who really love their horses do the kindest thing and do not prolong the pain. Its hard but beleive me you feel ok afterwards as you know you have done the right thing and you have been responsible and done the best thing for your horse who you love.
 
OP I really feel for you, its a horrible position to be in.

There will always be others that have had successful results of operations as much as those who have had unsuccessful results. It does sound as though you have already made your mind up, and no one on here can say you're doing the wrong thing, only you and your vet know the horse/problem well enough to make an informed decision.

Wagtail - I think sometimes with this kind of decision people ask this sort of question as a way of just getting the chance to say everything, and not really want a Yes or No you're/not doing the right thing - which would be my guess to the reason behind the post.

Some people would have kept my old girl alive when i chose to PTS a few years ago - (admitedly she was in her 20's) - but I knew she wouldnt cope with all the further poking/prodding that would have been needed to diagnose her (we tried a lot, over 1 year to get her right) - and actually after she was pts, I felt unbelievable relief that she wasnt in pain and wouldnt ever be in pain again (I also had a post mortem done on her leg that caused the problems, which helped to confirm I'd done the right thing - although again, many would say she could have been put on bute and lived out in a field somewhere) - Only I knew her well enough to make the decision - maybe she would have coped with further treatment, and thats something that will stay in the back of my head forever - I'll never know, but from the day it happened until now I dont regret making the decision at all.

As for being there for the 'deed' thats completely up for you if you decide to go down the pts option.

I was, I had family and friends supporting me (who had chosen to be there not asked) - I wanted to be there for me, to know i was with her to the end - not her, which may sound selfish, but I honestly dont believe a horse will think 'hang on, my owner isnt here, how selfish of them' - at that point, you just need to do whatever is right for you. As long as you have a good Vet to do what needs to be done, it will make no difference to the horse if you are there or not - they will have no idea what is going on at all.
 
Hedwards said:
OP I really feel for you, its a horrible position to be in.

There will always be others that have had successful results of operations as much as those who have had unsuccessful results. It does sound as though you have already made your mind up, and no one on here can say you're doing the wrong thing, only you and your vet know the horse/problem well enough to make an informed decision.

Wagtail - I think sometimes with this kind of decision people ask this sort of question as a way of just getting the chance to say everything, and not really want a Yes or No you're/not doing the right thing - which would be my guess to the reason behind the post.

Some people would have kept my old girl alive when i chose to PTS a few years ago - (admitedly she was in her 20's) - but I knew she wouldnt cope with all the further poking/prodding that would have been needed to diagnose her (we tried a lot, over 1 year to get her right) - and actually after she was pts, I felt unbelievable relief that she wasnt in pain and wouldnt ever be in pain again (I also had a post mortem done on her leg that caused the problems, which helped to confirm I'd done the right thing - although again, many would say she could have been put on bute and lived out in a field somewhere) - Only I knew her well enough to make the decision - maybe she would have coped with further treatment, and thats something that will stay in the back of my head forever - I'll never know, but from the day it happened until now I dont regret making the decision at all.

As for being there for the 'deed' thats completely up for you if you decide to go down the pts option.

I was, I had family and friends supporting me (who had chosen to be there not asked) - I wanted to be there for me, to know i was with her to the end - not her, which may sound selfish, but I honestly dont believe a horse will think 'hang on, my owner isnt here, how selfish of them' - at that point, you just need to do whatever is right for you. As long as you have a good Vet to do what needs to be done, it will make no difference to the horse if you are there or not - they will have no idea what is going on at all.
Click to expand...



These are exactly my thoughts; and while I think it is hard if you have a horse that has recovered well from a similar thing I also think that it's worth bearing in mind that horses live in the 'now'. If they are in pain they have no idea that they might feel better days, weeks or even months later and are only aware of how they feel in the moment. We can't let them know that we are trying to make them better, which is why personally I'd think long and hard before putting horses through proceedures that have no guaranteed outcome.
 
Yes, you're doing the right thing. When I had my horse PTS last year, I could not be there - I was in a terrible state and that yard manager stayed with him (she dealt with him daily, turning him out, so knew him well). It was the hardest thing I ever had to do and I still cry thinking about it.
 
Only you know this horse, what he will tolerate & the extent of his problems. Make your own decisions, if they are made in his interest they will be right (whatever you decide). BEst wishes to you, a very tough time. I do have a paddock ornament with ks, who lives out to keep her pain free. It was the right decision at the time, if she shows signs of being uncomfortable, another decision may need to be taken. Only you know what is right for your lad.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top