Am I just impatient? Do I just like something with "speed"!

Lintel

Lintel

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I'll start off with basics, I have a 6 year old Highland- have had him since he was rising 3.

When I bought him I wasn't a "rider" as such. I had brought him along myself with light hacking etc, at this point I didn't have a clue on schooling as I had only been riding a year.
At the age of 4 we moved yards.

Got a instructor who was of foreign descent, *where there horses WORK for them* the instructor did showjumping and had beautiful warmblood types. We worked with him for a good few months- he introduced me to using spurs, feeding the pony a little more as he was working harder, we worked abit on his collection- then the instructor almost "gave up" on this. We then started jumping, and jumping ... and jumping. My boy enjoys jumping "sometimes" but we were just jumping, not working into the jumps, not pacing etc at all, just getting fired over jumps. I then gave up on this instructor when I felt it was just going too far with the jumping. He was really fit at this point, but still had a dis-united canter at times, needed ALOT of spur encouragement and struggled to collect.

We then moved again and did a tonne of hacking, kept the fitness totally up.

We then moved again to the current yard, but I struggle with him an awful lot sometimes.

We now have a wonderful instructor and getting lessons once a week but not for the past few due to commitments. But he is such a backward horse. - with everything unless it's jumping and he is in the correct frame of mind. I still use spurs but I feel him becoming nearly dead to them, whips and crops work if I crack them with FORCE which I don't wish to do.
When being asked to collect he now will do this "reasonably well" but when he collects he slows right down and we are stuck between going at a reasonable pace without collection or real slow with collection.
When being lunged he goes well in walk and trot, but canter he is slow and sloppy and wont pick himself up and get himself together, when he does go forward *pretending to spook etc* he goes beautifully and will balance but without this sudden power surge he struggles to balance and keeps breaking back to trot.
HELP- suggestions.

If you get this far congratulations! Cake and cookies for grabs.:)
 
Lintel said:
I still use spurs but I feel him becoming nearly dead to them, whips and crops work if I crack them with FORCE which I don't wish to do.
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So sounds like you're missing out on basics. And sounds like your horse has switched off to you. You're going to need a lot of patience to re train him. Take away the spurs, and ask your horse to walk. Aslong as he moves, praise him and do nothing. It might be the slowest crawl in the world but providing he is moving, do nothing but praise. Repeat. This works you just have to be patient and strongly resist the urge to nag, even if it feels like you're about to stop, unless he actually does stop, don't do anything. Your boy will get the idea and start to enjoy moving again. Forget about collection (kind of sounds like you're doing it wrong anyway) just let him enjoy moving.
 
Then the collection isn't true or proper. When collecting the horse remains tracking up, in the SAME tempo as a working or lengthened pace. The only difference is that the horse has a greater moment of suspension when collected...... The greatest moment of suspension is the levade.

However the collection can not come before working forwards....the horse has to be forwards with impulsion and not speed to be collected! A horse can still be forwards when stood still....this is being on the aids and ready at any moment to do a movement.

From what I have read your horse is not forwards..... As you have to use your spurs and whip to keep it going.....therefore I don't believe you should be doing collected work. Your horse does not sound ready to start collecting to the degree that you are talking about. You need to make your horse forwards. I would use a lot of long and low work plus quick reactive transitions....get your horse going with just a touch of the heels. To get forwards I will often use the long side from a halt, putting the legs on to go as 'quick' as possible - if my horse gallops then I have achieved my aim of going forwards! ( if the horse doesn't respond then it gets one quick sharp slap by my leg with the whip.... Exercise repeated till I get the above result)

So now the horse is forward I will think of 1/2 halting, and controlling the transitions to maintain and encourage impulsion - not speed - from the horse.....so here I am beginning to introduce the idea of collection! But my horse is still on my aids as I am containing the impulsion and not having to continually 'create' it. If my horse drops behind my aids then I will go back to the 'go fast exercise'.
 
Come and ride my arab. He hadn't hacked out in his life till I got him, aged 15. One sight of a herd of cows descending on us and off he went, I had no idea he could go THAT fast! I must have looked like this:

images_zps312fa390.jpg


Funnily enough I no longer have a need for speed :p
 
You need to get him reacting to your leg, not spurs and whips. My cob is pretty laid back, and he will take the mickey in the school if I don't make it clear that I expect forward movement all the time. I don't want to keep asking him to go forward, he needs to do that for himself.

My horse also doesn't give a rats ass about whips, so what I am am doing is gentle squeeze with calves, if I get the reaction I want then legs off and praise. If he doesn't bound forward then I take my legs off and give a thump on his sides. Again, it's important not to keep nagging at him, you want him to react to the slightest of leg aid. This is really working well with my horse, and he is getting nice and responsive. You can't get him collecting until he is in front of your leg.

I bet you will notice a difference just doing this for one session.

Also, as someone else has said, maybe he is bored. Perhaps just school on hacks for a couple of months and see if that makes a difference?
 
Wow - I have read the OP a few times as I just couldn't quite get my head around it.

Yes, you do seem to be impatient and sadly you had the wrong instructor to begin with. A young, unbacked Highland has been turned into a work sour pony who is almost dead to spurs at the age of 6. What a crying shame. Poor pony.



TandD - I don't quite understand this part of your post, as a moment of suspension involves all the hooves being off the ground?
The greatest moment of suspension is the levade.
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Faracat said:
Wow - I have read the OP a few times as I just couldn't quite get my head around it.

Yes, you do seem to be impatient and sadly you had the wrong instructor to begin with. A young, unbacked Highland has been turned into a work sour pony who is almost dead to spurs at the age of 6. What a crying shame. Poor pony.
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This. Have already been in a mass online argument tonight, so posted that photo instead. Glad you all like it haha and I'm not exaggerating!!
 
Faracat said:
Wow - I have read the OP a few times as I just couldn't quite get my head around it.

Yes, you do seem to be impatient and sadly you had the wrong instructor to begin with. A young, unbacked Highland has been turned into a work sour pony who is almost dead to spurs at the age of 6. What a crying shame. Poor pony.



TandD - I don't quite understand this part of your post, as a moment of suspension involves all the hooves being off the ground?
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Sorry! I do believe I typed before my brain thought! It should say collection!
 
p87 said:
Come and ride my arab. He hadn't hacked out in his life till I got him, aged 15. One sight of a herd of cows descending on us and off he went, I had no idea he could go THAT fast! I must have looked like this:

images_zps312fa390.jpg


Funnily enough I no longer have a need for speed :p
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Sorry to the OP for going off track (although Faracat has said what I would have said) but this pic is amazing - would make a great greeting card if the quality was good enough. Do PM me if you have a high res version or can get one (I work for a greeting card publisher).
 
Faracat said:
Wow - I have read the OP a few times as I just couldn't quite get my head around it.

Yes, you do seem to be impatient and sadly you had the wrong instructor to begin with. A young, unbacked Highland has been turned into a work sour pony who is almost dead to spurs at the age of 6. What a crying shame. Poor pony.
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Quite. There are so many parts of that post that make me want to bang my head against a brick wall that I just don't know where to start.
 
Faracat said:
It all makes sense now. :)

Moomin - I agree.
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I see so many of them now. It's so sad. I know of numerous people who have taken young horses on who literally have no clue who to even teach them basic stable manners. Young horses not getting schooled to the basics but taken out showjumping (disastrously most of the time), people putting all manner of tack on them despite them only being about 4 years old and barely schooled. So sad.
 
While I am busy trying to steady my highland up there seems to be a lot of them about that distress their owners by being bored and appearing to be lazy. The boredom factor is the biggest issue I have found with highlands.
Both mine Mother and daughter are forward, interested in life and pocket rockets when out hacking the 18 year old mum has recently being going on mad hacks with a novice rider and having a whale of a time but 18 years of schooling, teaching and showing and I guess she has got fed up of teaching the kids to ride so now is having a party. She is still a superstar in the school but really lights up when out and about. Daughter has hit the tantrum stage where she just wants to party whether it be in the school or out hacking so has had to learn to do as she is told. She is growing up fast rising 5 so I expect a few more assertive moments but she is the easiest horse on the yard as you just say what she wants and tries really hard to do it. Well until we hit a tantrum when she throws the toys out the pram and has a you'll do it my way moment. So what I am trying to say is it isnt the breed as such they are just so bright they learn very quickly how to get out of doing what you want and get away with doing things their way.
Takes ingenuity but they make the very best alrounders out if you can adapt them to your way of thinking, but god help you if you push them they have a wicked sense of humour even the well behaved ones
 
OP you have had some good advice about how to proceed with your horse. As you're an inexperienced rider I would like to congratulate you on recognising that something is wrong, that things need to change and on ditching the worst instructor. Yes, poor pony, but at least he has a rider who cares and is trying to fix things.

In addition to the advice already given, I will add that whenever you ride in the school make sure you work on different exercises, to avoid boredom. There are many exercises that will all teach the same things, ie: forward movement, suppleness, impulsion and straightness. All of which are needed before you work on collection.

There are books available detailing the exercises and how to ride them. If your instructor is halfway decent they should be agreeable to this change of direction in your horses training. You would not try to build a house without digging out foundations. Your pony doesn't have foundations at present.

I suspect that you were not working on collection anyway, but that people have been trying to get the pony to work "rounded"/"on the bit"/"in an outline" (all describe the same thing) and have been telling you to "collect him up" to achieve that.
 
Hippona said:
He's still not mature...he's only six. Mine didn't fully mature and start working properly until this year when he turned eight.
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This^^ Cobs and natives look mature from a younger age as they are stocky, but they actually mature at a slower rate. Let him grow up and once he is physically strong enough you can get on with the schooling. However, if it's a really forward horse that you want then perhaps you should sell him. There is nothing worse than seeing angry owners beat up lovely horses because they aren't 'hot' enough for them- he will make someone else very happy.
 
Agree with everyone who says to get some proper lessons with a good instructor. My boy is definately on the laid back area of the spectrum but he is no where NEAR as lazy as his old owner thought he was - he didn't understand leg aids when he came and I had professional help to teach him the basics that had been missing having been backed by someone who didn't know how to bring him on. Now he understands what is being asked he is much more forward and is the best pony I could ever have wished for, I'm so lucky to have him and is not the "dope on a rope" he was labelled as before he came, he just didn't understand and kicking him harder and smacking him wasn't going to change that.
 
dianchi said:
You want to contact JTFD or google her blog "hot blooded highland"

Definitely the highland expert round here!
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I'm flattered but not really worthy of such comments.

OP, I think you should stop what you're doing and find a new approach. It isn't working. Take him out, take him hunting, do anything that doesn't involve cracking him with whips and deadening him to spurs. I normally wouldn't suggest selling a horse because of something like this, but if you keep going in this manner, I'm afraid he will be ruined beyond redemption.

I'm sorry if that sounds atrociously rude. It isn't meant to. You've clearly had some awful guidance in the last if you have had instructors advising you to approach his education in this way.
 
HBrae2 said:
Agree with everyone who says to get some proper lessons with a good instructor. My boy is definately on the laid back area of the spectrum but he is no where NEAR as lazy as his old owner thought he was - he didn't understand leg aids when he came and I had professional help to teach him the basics that had been missing having been backed by someone who didn't know how to bring him on. Now he understands what is being asked he is much more forward and is the best pony I could ever have wished for, I'm so lucky to have him and is not the "dope on a rope" he was labelled as before he came, he just didn't understand and kicking him harder and smacking him wasn't going to change that.
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I'd agree with this. ^ It sounds as though he doesn't understand what you want from him so really you need an instructor who will take you right back to basics and get him going forwards happily.

Have you tried using voice commands? If you teach him 'walk on', 'trot on', etc in hand and/or on the lunge you should find this translates to ridden work and you can gradually re-introduce the leg so he learns that a quiet aid means 'go forwards' without all the nagging. Highlands and other natives/cob types can be very stubborn (as I'm sure you know!) and constant use of the leg and whip will only teach them to 'switch off'.

The other thing to be aware of is that you're not restricting him with your reins - you talk about collection (which tbh it doesn't sound like either of you are ready for) and perhaps you are inadvertently giving him 'stop' and 'go' signals at the same time?

ETA: Also, I'd get out hacking as much as possible while you work on this - you can do lots of schooling stuff on a hack (tons of transitions would be good for you at the moment) while still keeping the horse interested and forward-thinking.
 
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I agree with what others have said. Your poor pony sounds bored and confused. Have you got a hacking companion? Go out for fun rides, forget schooling for the moment. Ride over different terrains at different speeds and let him learn to balance himself without rider interference. Hopefully he will brighten up, and muscle up, and then be more capable of doing what you want.
 
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