Am I mad? Overreacting? Beating a horse to load.

[Sleipnir]

So, this happened locally. Please, watch the video, although, understandably, you won't be able to read the text:

http://www.delfi.lv/aculiecinieks/n...ce-sit-zirgu-pvd-ierosina-lietu.d?id=47826623

Long story short, a local big-name dressage rider (and an official FEI coach!) was caught and filmed in the act, while loading her horse. What baffles and sickens me is that a huge number of people (equestrians in particular) are actually defending her and saying that, when you get to attend in the "big competitions" and are a professional, you understand that this kind of attitude is essential to get horses to cooperate. Anybody who disagrees, is ridiculed and laughed at for being too naive and, essentially, too untalented to "get it". The local RPSCA-type-institution has been involved and will investigate this case, but the horse has already been checked and, as there are no open wounds, it has been determined that he hasn't "suffered".

To me, it seems unproductive, violent and ruining the horse, and I am appalled that this type of attitude is still prevalent. Yet it seems that many more around here receive it as a totally normal behavior and are angered that their beloved celebrity is being wronged.

 

[paddi22]

that's horrible. If you swapped that horse out for a person and she did the same thing she'd be up for assault.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Is she using the breast bar? not something I would be using on a horse and if one of my horses got walloped with that they would show you their hooves for sure, I wonder what kind of abuse she inflicts behind closed doors if she is willing to do that in public.

 

[bonny]

The horse seems fairly immune to being hit, for me I've seen a lot worse and we don't know how long they have been trying to load the horse before this film....

 

[Lyle]

Just goes to show, that just because you can 'ride' a horse well, doesn't make you a horseman...

 

[Doormouse]

The horse seems fairly immune to being hit, for me I've seen a lot worse and we don't know how long they have been trying to load the horse before this film....

I would agree, seen worse and to be honest I think the horse was the winner as it still didn't load!

 

[LadySam]

Good lord, what's she hitting it with, a lead pipe? (Yeah, I know it's probably the breast bar.)

I've seen worse too. But while it's probably not hurting like a whip, it's got to be adding to the horse's stress level and making things worse. The thing I'm most gobsmacked at is how such a big deal "professional" and her support staff seem so clueless at dealing with the situation. It's really unproductive.

 

[adamntitch]

Looks like the lead ropes in its mouth as well I have seen worse as well but would of had to say something

 

[VikingSong]

Her treatment of that poor horse is not acceptable nor can it be justified (I don't care how long she had been trying to load the horse). It's a pity she didn't get two hooves in the kisser.

 

[Sleipnir]

Yes, it's a metal breast bar and there's a lead rope through the horses' mouth.
What shocks me most is that lots of people online, in reaction to this case, state that one cannot deal otherwise with highly energetic horses and, if you want results in stressful situations, you HAVE to beat the horse. Seems just so, so absurd - this person is a professional, shouldn't they know better.

 

[Dry Rot]

I haven't watched the video and I don't want to.

I witnessed a horse being loaded by livestock hauliers. The owner was present, but I left the scene because it was (to me) so horrendous. It was literally beaten onto the lorry. It foundered and died within a week.

I also had a mare in visiting the stallion. In the six weeks it was here, I could not get a hand on it though I did succeed in getting it to eat out of a bucket with daily training. When the owner arrived, I had it stabled. She grabbed the head collar but was thrown off. Then the pony saw the open back of the trailer and shot in. I have never ever seen any horse load so quickly or be so keen to escape the owner. That, too, was a livestock haulier and she was also the owner. That seemed to be her usual method of loading. Horrific!

Yes, I can be tough and have used a winch and a broom, but beatings are totally counter productive.

 

[Red-1]

I have seen a lot worse, but it is not acceptable.

Worst I have seen was an Olympic Event rider (not team GB) who was based for a while in this country. He was riding his horse, who did nothing awful, but was feeling a bit nappy, and I would have accepted the horse being hit as it was a big nappy horse, but when the rider got off and toecapped him in the guts etc, got back on and hit him, then got off and kicked him again, etc. It was not just hitting the horse's bottom, it was around the head too. I was aghast.

My horse was petrified (I was riding nearby) so I could not go over, and I did not have my phone or I would have videoed and sent to the FEI. A nearby rider told me this was a daily occurrence.

I did call and report it the day after, to a person of significance, but with no video it is an Olympic rider against....me.

It was on the run up to London 2012, it would have given me great pleasure if he had been disqualified.

 

[abbijay]

I have a bad loader and he's my first horse. When we first started travelling him in my friend's lorry she would take control of the situation when he didn't want to go on and instantly put him under huge pressure. At the time I thought she was a very talented and experienced horsewoman who name dropped all these big names she'd worked for. There were lunge lines and whips flying all over the place, teams of people getting involved and all sorts. The more violent the situation became the more aggressive the horse would become. In retrospect I can see that this was where his dislike of loading really became a problem.
It's awful when a horse isn't good at loading but there are ways of doing it without hitting the heck out of the horse with the breech bar!

 

[Amye]

There are definitely ways of getting a horse to load without resorting to hitting it with a metal bar... My horse isn't a good loader, but we just use a headcollar and leadrope. We have pressure on the lead rope until he decides to walk forward, then massive praise, even if it's only one step forward. Carry this on until he understands - walking forwards = praise. Sometimes he fights, but you have to stay calm.

No beating occurs even though it can get VERY frustrating.

 

[Goldenstar]

The whole thing is just stupid .
One because the horse is set up to fail by the positioning of the other horse .
The hitting with the brestbar is just so stupid it's not even being done in a way that's got any chance of persuading the horse to go forward into the box .

I will be up front if any of mine think it's a great idea not to load they will get a snack with a dressage whip if they immediately respnd to a voice cue that it's time to get their act together ,one of mine throws a no loading paddy now and again he gets a bungee rein put on ( rearing is his evasion ) and is lunged in a fast walk round the bottom of the ramp until he decides a rest and a snack in the wagon is the best option .
But they are grown up horse who have been trained to load and if they refuse they have no excuse they know what expected of them .

Large groups of people going at a horse is never good as abdjay describes it gets too heated you two or three if you have a horse in the transport already .
If your horse is dodgy you never leave home without a plan for loading and the things you need to execute that plan .

 

[LadySam]

There are definitely ways of getting a horse to load without resorting to hitting it with a metal bar... My horse isn't a good loader, but we just use a headcollar and leadrope. We have pressure on the lead rope until he decides to walk forward, then massive praise, even if it's only one step forward. Carry this on until he understands - walking forwards = praise. Sometimes he fights, but you have to stay calm.

Had to do the same with my bad loader, with the addition of a rope around his bum. We'd tie one end of it to one side of the trailer, put it across his rear and loop it through a loop on the other side of the trailer. making a kind of pulley. One person at his head with the lead rope, another pulling on the bum rope to gently push him up from behind. It took time but we always got there. Beating him would have got us absolutely nowhere, plus it's just not how I do things. This horse was so sweet and kind and patient with anyone - the least he deserved was the same in return with the one thing he had an issue with.

 

[HashRouge]

She might be a professional but she didn't seem to have a clue what she was doing in that video. I'm not sure why anyone would expect a horse to load in those circumstances! Also, the justifications that have apparently been given are bizarre. I spent the best part of two years working as a professional show jumping groom and every single horse I worked with loaded absolutely perfectly. To them it is the norm - they are on the lorry week in week out, with their friends, and need no encouragement to go up the ramp. Some of them are incredibly sharp and quite difficult to handle, but going on the lorry to them was as normal as going in their stable! Obviously they are not like that when they first come in from the field - one of the homebred youngsters I worked with once stood on the lorry for 40 minutes after we finally got him up the ramp because he was too scared to come down! But now he practically trots up the ramp. If a horse travels regularly and is handled consistently and professionally, I wouldn't expect it to be difficult to load at all. So the "this is how professionals do things" excuse is absolute rubbish!

 

[fburton]

"Horses kick each other a lot harder than that! They've got to understand who is the boss. You need to be the alpha in this relationship and instill obedience and manners(and take no arguments etc)."

 

[Goldenstar]

"Horses kick each other a lot harder than that! They've got to understand who is the boss. You need to be the alpha in this relationship and instill obedience and manners(and take no arguments etc)."

Don't be naughty .

 

[Sleipnir]

Out of interest. If such a thing was to happen in the UK, what would be the expected response from the accused rider (who happens to be among the top 3 dressage riders in the country, according to their rankings), and would she be in any way punished by the British Dressage association (or a similar organization)?

 

[eggs]

Not good viewing but also they looked pretty incompetent at loading horses.

There are much more effective ways of getting a horse to load than they demonstrated.

 

[ljohnsonsj]

Not acceptable at all. I don't know when in the history of loading horses braying a horse to get it into a box has ever worked!

My mare went through a stage where she decided she wasn't going to load (Had her from young, no problems just a cow bag!) She just stood on the ramp as ignorant as can be and didn't care about lunge lines behind her bum or anything. I used a cow halty on her and stood at the top of the ramp and she pulled back then gave into the pressure and jumped up the ramp. Loaded herself every time since!

I think it's so silly of people to think they can bully half a ton of animal into doing something!

 

[Pocketr@cket]

I can understand a broom on rear end, whip taped on the side to keep the horse going forward or lunge lines from behind but a metal bar !! That must have left bruises for weeks.

Evil 81tch !!

 

[Equi]

If it was done to a human it would be criminal.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I don't understand the need to strike a horse hard to get it to go forwards onto the Trailer. I just pop a lung line around their butt and wiggle to make them step and eventually with patience even stubborn ones go on. I've flicked whips at horses only to get a leg aimed at me so don't see the point in putting myself in the firing line. Had that horse shot a leg out she was getting a sore one. Stupid IMO. Work on its loading issues before taking it to a show.

 

[laura_nash]

Not good viewing but also they looked pretty incompetent at loading horses.

There are much more effective ways of getting a horse to load than they demonstrated.

Agreed. This was violent, but the thing that stood out for me was how totally incompetent it was.

I have seen worse, I have also (sadly) participated in worse as a stupid 14 year old when I bought my first pony and she wouldn't load - I didn't do the hitting but I allowed it. That pony point blank refused to load the next time, and I don't blame her. Three years later when I understood horses a bit better and had some knowledge of how to handle them I took three days to teach her to load and she loaded perfectly the rest of her life.

I think if similar footage had appeared of a UK top dressage rider, they may not be reprimanded officially for the violence but they would lose all credibility as a horse person. At one she tried to physically push the horse in, does she really think she is that strong! How has she become a "top" rider without knowing that horses are inter-pressure animals! I wonder if she is one of these riders that usually just gets on a already tacked up horse and actually has no idea how to handle them, but the groom couldn't make it that day.

 

[Leo Walker]

Agreed. This was violent, but the thing that stood out for me was how totally incompetent it was.

This! I have previously loaded mine by tapping him repeatedly with a schooling/lunge whip until the annoyance factor annoyed him to the point he decided he would actually prefer to load instead. Its resolved now as I got a Dually and did the ground work and he now loads like a pro so long as he has the Dually on. Hes still a git without it!

But what on earth was she doing?!?

 

[rachk89]

I think it's so silly of people to think they can bully half a ton of animal into doing something!

Same. I wish the horse she was trying to load was more like mine. He doesn't like anyone but me being authoritative with him and I imagine he would have kicked her for that behaviour. There's no way he will load with force I just stand in the trailer and put gentle pressure to get him to move forwards while holding treats out to entice him a bit. Does the job he just doesn't like small spaces and until I get my own trailer I can't practice with him.