Am I right or wrong?..

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LarkriseFarmUK

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I am a reputable dealer of over 15 years, can count on my hand the number of disputes I’ve had as I do my upmost to match horse to home & disclose EVERYTHING I know.

I sold a lovely young horse, from field, but viewed, at trade money for the market to a local lady.

She arrived with her friend and my rider was also present. She felt all over, picked up legs, watched him trotted up etc etc. I had him 2 weeks but previous owner had from a foal.

We had not disclosed about any lumps on his advert however during viewing we found hard, rub type marks in each armpit, I never noticed before and disclosed this to buyer, as on his ad I did state no lumps or bumps. So I said oh, I’m sorry I didn’t notice this & I understood if this meant the buyer wasn’t happy to proceed.

In my opinion it felt like proud flesh / scar tissue perhaps due to an ill fitting training contraption especially with the symmetry of the lumps. The buyer and her friend thought perhaps a fungus infection but felt unlikely Sarcoids. However still didn’t require a vetting and pushed on that she was happy to continue with the sale. We loaded the horse up & she transferred the money.

A day later she has messaged (she won’t accept a phone conversation) saying that she wants myself to foot the medical bill as her vet had come out and decided the lumps are likely Sarcoids. I advised they aren’t visible or effecting him, why not continue and just see how you go. However due to you accepted this pre existing condition & accepting to buy without a vet check, this is not something I should have to pay for or warrants a return / refund as buyer viewed and accepted.

It is stated on receipt that no warranty, returns or refund. Horse was sold as seen, lumps were discussed & the buyer accepted the risk that comes with them. A discount on price could of been discussed however this wasn’t mentioned and full amount first discussed was transferred following the viewing.

This is correct isn’t it?
Obviously I’m now being threatened legal action and having my character picked apart as being a liar etc. however myself and my rider simply missed this. His previous owner has also claimed she was unaware of any Sarcoids, she forgot to mention marks to us but is getting her vet to email proving when he checked it he felt it was rubs from laying down, horse was never diagnosed as having Sarcoids.

Buyer hasn’t provided any form of vet confirmation that he has Sarcoids. So far it’s just been via text message for wanting money.

Any thoughts? Many thanks.

My plan is to leave it to buyer & tackle small claims if it comes to it. But always sad when a buyer is unhappy and then we don’t get to keep in touch with the lovely horse we thought would be gaining a loving forever home . Xx
 
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Jenko109 said:
Your advert says no lumps or bumps.

I would just take the horse back. It isnt worth the drama.
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Yes as we didn’t find it prior to viewing but during viewing we discussed & of course we would have understood if purchased decided not to buy or asked for discount but they didn’t. Therefore it depletes the advert as we all then knew there is now a lump but buyer wished to continue.
 
Does the receipt state about the lumps that you found and negate what is written in the advert?
Does the receipt state sold as seen and the buyer signed it?
Does the receipt state that the buyer did not have the horse vetted?
Do you have a copy of the receipt?
Tbh everything will depend on that receipt as it's the only proof you have which is signed and dated that the buyer knew what they were taking on.

Adverts can change with living things and it's all about best described at the time. Problem is you are a dealer so your liability as an expert and it being your business is different to someone who sells one horse every so often.
 
Receipt was done prior to viewing / collection as she offered a lower price than advertised to collect next day & no vetting. So didn’t state lumps but does describe the horse as young green project & no warranty / returns etc.
 
LEC said:
Does the receipt state about the lumps that you found and negate what is written in the advert?
Does the receipt state sold as seen and the buyer signed it?
Does the receipt state that the buyer did not have the horse vetted?
Do you have a copy of the receipt?
Tbh everything will depend on that receipt as it's the only proof you have which is signed and dated that the buyer knew what they were taking on.

Adverts can change with living things and it's all about best described at the time. Problem is you are a dealer so your liability as an expert and it being your business is different to someone who sells one horse every so often.
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Receipt was done prior to viewing / collection as she offered a lower price than advertised to collect next day & no vetting. So didn’t state lumps but does describe the horse as young green project & no warranty / returns etc.
 
meleeka said:
I think you should offer to take the horse back too. If they decline, it will look bad for them if they do decide to take it through the courts. As it is, they have an advert saying no lumps or bumps, which isn't true.
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But adverts can change. You can see advert saying a horse is x , y & z yet when you view you disagree or you find something else that wasn’t on advert. Still your choice if you then accept to buy or not.
 
LEC said:
Saying no warranty or returns makes no difference if they are going to argue that the goods were misdescribed and have proof they were, which they do technically. Unfortunately, I think you have been screwed on this one.
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How are they mis described. We didn’t notice them. We found during viewing. We all felt and discussed. Buyer continued with purchase. I double checked are you happy with him. She said yes. She could have pulled out, advised she needs him vet checked or asked for discount. She did not.
 
If the person who bought the horse is a private buyer I'd just give them their money back.

There's at least one woman who's actually a dealer but pretends she isn't who does this type of thing. If the purchaser is also a dealer then it's a different situation, it might be worth checking on a dodgy dealer fb page to see if the person has done this before.
 
Petalpoos said:
Agree with many of the above comments - just buy the horse back and sell again, including pointing out the lumps. If you are trying to make a business as a dealer then you will not want any bad publicity, nor to appear on the dodgy dealers network.
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LEC said:
If you decided to pursue this and defend your case what evidence would your side have? It would be word of mouth. You have one witness who was there but all the evidence is against you. The receipt, the advert, etc the other side will also say that you are a professional in horses, which you are and suggested it was not sarcoids, so they went ahead basing it on trust.

I agree it's crap, but this could cost you a fortune to defend. I would tough it out for a week or two but expect I was going to have to take the horse back and refund.
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I think is defend if she did do small claims, with the fact yes I missed them, human error & im annoyed at myself for missing however on finding I didn’t say def not sarcoids I said I don’t think they are as they just felt like hard skin her friend agreed and she said maybe fungal infection. I said are you happy and she said yes it’s fine. I wish I then got her to sign a changed receipt stating happy to continue with lumps that’s totally my fault and this is going to ensure I get stricter with my protocol plus ensure my hands run over every inch of my horses. However I do believe I am not at fault here. She got an animal viewed and accepted as he was under market value and has already ridden and enjoyed. Insure him and move forward. Feels like someone trying their luck. I have no actual confirmation her vet has even seen / diagnosed sarcoids. Just snotty messages. Plus previous owner is getting her vet to send a report stating sarcoids were not diagnosed prior to confirm we weren’t aware. I would never not disclose anything.
 
LarkriseFarmUK said:
How are they mis described. We didn’t notice them. We found during viewing. We all felt and discussed. Buyer continued with purchase. I double checked are you happy with him. She said yes. She could have pulled out, advised she needs him vet checked or asked for discount. She did not.
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But as LEC says, it sounds like you have no evidence that that conversation ever happened.

To protect yourself you should have amended the receipt and got the buyer to sign off. It's annoying that you have to do that, but unfortunately I think you have met the sort of buyer here that is the reason it's necessary.

I would buy the horse back and save yourself a lot of aggro
 
LarkriseFarmUK said:
Receipt was done prior to viewing / collection as she offered a lower price than advertised to collect next day & no vetting. So didn’t state lumps but does describe the horse as young green project & no warranty / returns etc.
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You absolutely should have updated the receipt once the purchase was agreed to reflect the lumps found.

And as a dealer, you're bound to receive 'goods' back if they're found to be not as described, so that part of your receipt is null and void.

Just buy the horse back.
 
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It does seem a bit suspicious that she’s got the vet out the very next day. Sounds like a chancer to me.

You could tough it out but it doesn’t sound like you’ve got any proof what you discussed on her viewing him and she’ll probably dispute that.

I’ll think you’ll have a much more stress free life if you just offer to buy back.
 
Petalpoos said:
Agree with many of the above comments - just buy the horse back and sell again, including pointing out the lumps. If you are trying to make a business as a dealer then you will not want any bad publicity, nor to appear on the dodgy dealers network.
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LEC said:
If you decided to pursue this and defend your case what evidence would your side have? It would be word of mouth. You have one witness who was there but all the evidence is against you. The receipt, the advert, etc the other side will also say that you are a professional in horses, which you are and suggested it was not sarcoids, so they went ahead basing it on trust.

I agree it's crap, but this could cost you a fortune to defend. I would tough it out for a week or two but expect I was going to have to take the horse back and refund.
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I think is defend if she did do small claims, with the fact yes I missed them, human error & im annoyed at myself for missing however on finding I didn’t say def not sarcoids I said I don’t think they are as they just felt like hard skin her friend agreed and she said maybe fungal infection. I said are you happy and she said yes it’s fine. I wish I then got her to sign a changed receipt stating happy to continue with lumps that’s totally my fault and this is going to ensure I get stricter with my protocol plus ensure my hands run over every inch of my horses. However I do believe I am not at fault here. She got an animal viewed and accepted as he was under market value and has already ridden and enjoyed. Insure him and move forward. Feels like someone trying their luck. I have no actual confirmation her vet has even seen / diagnosed sarcoids. Just snotty messages. Plus previous owner is getting her vet to send a report stating sarcoids were not diagnosed prior to confirm we weren’t aware. I would never not disclose somethinf
DabDab said:
But as LEC says, it sounds like you have no evidence that that conversation ever happened.

To protect yourself you should have amended the receipt and got the buyer to sign off. It's annoying that you have to do that, but unfortunately I think you have met the sort of buyer here that is the reason it's necessary.

I would buy the horse back and save yourself a lot of aggro
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i am so cross at myself for not doing this. Xx
 
dixie said:
It does seem a bit suspicious that she’s got the vet out the very next day. Sounds like a chancer to me.

You could tough it out but it doesn’t sound like you’ve got any proof what you discussed on her viewing him and she’ll probably dispute that.

I’ll think you’ll have a much more stress free life if you just offer to buy back.
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I wouldn't think it suspicious at all.
 
Amymay Again said:
I wouldn't think it suspicious at all.
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I think is unlikely she’s had the vet at all. If she could get the vet out the next day then why not wait and get the horse checked over before she bought him - as she’s local so presumably same vet.

Either way I’d still be offering to buy it back if it was me irrespective of who is right.
 
LEC said:
Saying no warranty or returns makes no difference if they are going to argue that the goods were misdescribed and have proof they were, which they do technically. Unfortunately, I think you have been screwed on this one.
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I agree.

It's like a comp centre saying they won't take responsibility for loss or injury if horse or rider as a disclaimer but if they've got a big nail sticking out of a x.c jump for example, and a horse gets injured how can that be defended in a court of law?

I think the buyer is within their rights to return said horse. And you should accept this and sell to someone else.

P.s just to say I have always had fab horses from dealers and would much rather buy from one than a private sale having been stung by the latter so I've no axe to grind with dealers.
 
As others have said i would offer to buy back and relist after a thorough check over and maybe vet confirmation as to what the lumps are.

If it goes to court your defence is based on an employee agreeing the lumps were discussed and the purchaser happy to go ahead, their case involves a written advertisement in which you state no lumps or bumps.

Its also worth noting your receipt stating 'no refunds or returns' is worthless as legally as a dealer any sales you make come under the Consumer Rights act.
 
Birker2020 said:
I agree.

It's like a comp centre saying they won't take responsibility for loss or injury if horse or rider as a disclaimer but if they've got a big nail sticking out of a x.c jump for example, and a horse gets injured how can that be defended in a court of law?

I think the buyer is within their rights to return said horse. And you should accept this and sell to someone else.

P.s just to say I have always had fab horses from dealers and would much rather buy from one than a private sale having been stung by the latter so I've no axe to grind with dealers.
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But what right does she have when she found and accepted the lumps at viewing? I think it’s a pretty simple case. If the lumps bothered her she could have walked away or got her vet to check before agreeing she didn’t. She said she was happy to continue.
 
Birker2020 said:
I agree.

It's like a comp centre saying they won't take responsibility for loss or injury if horse or rider as a disclaimer but if they've got a big nail sticking out of a x.c jump for example, and a horse gets injured how can that be defended in a court of law?

I think the buyer is within their rights to return said horse. And you should accept this and sell to someone else.

P.s just to say I have always had fab horses from dealers and would much rather buy from one than a private sale having been stung by the latter so I've no axe to grind with dealers.
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But what right does she have when she found and accepted the lumps at viewing? I think it’s a pretty simple case. If the lumps bothered her she could have walked away or got her vet to check before agreeing she didn’t. She said she was happy to continue with purchase!
 
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