Am I wasting my time & money?

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Sandylou

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Sorry if you know my story already but....
I bought my gelding in Jan 2010, sold to me as rising 6 but vet said he was more likely rising 5. We were doing really well until September last year when he started to shoot forwards when ridden. I was Ok with this for a while but then it started to chip away at my confidemce. I've worked hard this year and felt we were getting somewhere.
As I started to do more schooling it became aparrent that he was reluctant to canter on the left rein. I put this down to his age but still 2 months later he is still reluctant. More recently he has not been willing to stand at the mounting block for me which is very unusual.
I discussed these things with my instructor (and a few other horsey friends) and decided that I would have a chiro look at him. She came out yesterday and said that he is uncomfortable through his right stifle. She also said that his teeth were sharp on the outside (the vet did his teeth in Feb!) and we noticed that he has 2 new teeth under the gum - I will be getting the dentisit out this week.
So my boy has had teeth, tack, back check, a vet check, chiro, equine touch - you name it he's had it and it's costing me a fortune.
I was talking to a (not so experienced) friend last night who basically thinks that I'm wasting my money and the shooting forwards, reluctance to canter on the left rein and stand at the mounting block is just him being young and I'm looking for another answer because of my confidence wobble!
What do you think?
Sorry it's long! Latte and donuts for those that have made it to the end :)
Thanks :)
 
He is still only a baby so things will change. A reputable chiro will not look at your horse until the vet has looked first - its different if you are just carrying on "maintenance". You know he is not comfortable and has physical issues and you have help to work through it so I would carry on - once you have cleared off his physical issues. My 5 year old is always changing shape and is also bright and inquisitive so different things keep cropping up. We work through them and then something else happens. Thats just babies for you. I do, however, feel comfortable with mine as there is no malice in him, he is just exploring boundaries! and the standing at the mounting block? that started to go wrong a couple of weeks ago for me as he knew that mounting block outside the school = hacking. Nearly back now to behaving and not moving away when I get on the block but that is just an example.
 
I think it's part of the course with horses to be honest! It could happen with an older one as well as a youngster.

There is obviously something physically wrong if soreness has been picked up in his right stifle and that would cause difficulties cantering on the opposite rein.

If I were you I'd concentrate on getting all physical problems put right - and sometimes you need more than one 'expert' opinion to resolve things, just look at how many people have been told that there saddle fits when it doesn't by the posts on here!

Your horse will probably need to rebuild his confidence too and learn that being ridden isn't going to cause him any pain or discomfort.
 
Thanks peeps.
I had the vet look at him a few months ago just to make sure there was no obvious sign of pain and also to check his eyes and all was well. My chiro also made sure that I had my vets consent for her to come out.
My friend really made me question myself even though some of the things she said were totally incorrect ie she said maybe he's a bit stiff because he hasn't done so much work before but when I first got him we were riding 6 times a week - that's now 4 times a week. Before I bought him he was schooled everyday, hunting and doing SJ clinics.
I don't want to put things down to his age only to find out later if/when things get worse that it is a physical problem.
 
Has anyone else got any comments?
Obviously this is my first youngster so I'd like to hear what experienced youngster owners think - that's not worded very well but hopefully you understand what I mean :)
Thanks
 
How much lungeing work do you do with him?

My mare (just turned 6) also struggles with the left rein. We have found that putting a pole out really helps her. I trot her into the pole then when she steps over it I give the aid for canter. 9 times out of 10, she will pick up the correct leg which then I just keep the canter going with loads of circles etc to help her. Also lots of hill work to stenghten her muscles has also helped.

As for the block, Have you ever considerd clicker training? start by clicking and rewarding so he knows that the clicker is a good thing and means "good boy" then click as you lead up to the mounting block, then progress til he stands nicely at the mouting block and click when he stands, next get on the mouting block and click. Keep practicing until he is relaxed at the block then progress to getting on him.

Good luck :)
 
LaurenBay said:
How much lungeing work do you do with him?

As for the block, Have you ever considerd clicker training? start by clicking and rewarding so he knows that the clicker is a good thing and means "good boy" then click as you lead up to the mounting block, then progress til he stands nicely at the mouting block and click when he stands, next get on the mouting block and click. Keep practicing until he is relaxed at the block then progress to getting on him.

Good luck :)
Click to expand...

His workload consists of 2-3 x schooling or lunging (he is lunged at least once a week) and 2 x hacking a week. The chiro has told me to only do straight work with him for 2 weeks ie long reining this week and short slow hacks next week so no lunging or circle work for 2 weeks now.
To get the correct lead in canter I always work on a circle as we'd have no hope if we didn't. Will try the pole thing.
I have tried clicker training but find that he gets so mouthy because of the treats involved but I will try just standing at the mounting block with lots of praise when he stands still. This is a new issue and he has always been an angel to mount.
Thanks
 
I think in your original post you were asking if you are making excuses for the horse when the real problem is your lack of confidence. I think that confidence is a delicate thing and if you are not a confident person, then having a young horse is probably not a good combination. I am having much the same problems, so I know how you feel. You constantly try to find physical reasons for the horse not doing what you want, when probably a lot of it, is because you do not have confidence in each other as a partnership.

You will find that lots of people on here post saying - check his back, tack, teeth etc, he must be in pain if he is being naughty. When the reality is often much more simple, you have a young horse and many young horses are difficult in the early years. It takes a big person to admit they may have bought more than they can handle. If you find you are going around in circles, you may be better off to sell him to someone who is experienced with a young horse and buy something more settled for yourself to enjoy.

Good luck.
 
Now Im no expert by a long run but if he has two new teeth coming through and is mouthy, then the first thing that comes to my mind is are you sure hes as old as you thought? also you said you were told he was six but have since been told more like 5! My friends is almost 4 and has new teeth coming through and is mouthy :-)
 
BigRed said:
I think in your original post you were asking if you are making excuses for the horse when the real problem is your lack of confidence. I think that confidence is a delicate thing and if you are not a confident person, then having a young horse is probably not a good combination. I am having much the same problems, so I know how you feel. You constantly try to find physical reasons for the horse not doing what you want, when probably a lot of it, is because you do not have confidence in each other as a partnership.

You will find that lots of people on here post saying - check his back, tack, teeth etc, he must be in pain if he is being naughty. When the reality is often much more simple, you have a young horse and many young horses are difficult in the early years. It takes a big person to admit they may have bought more than they can handle. If you find you are going around in circles, you may be better off to sell him to someone who is experienced with a young horse and buy something more settled for yourself to enjoy.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for being so honest BigRed. I can completely see what you're saying.
I feel that we've turned a corner recently though and he has the right attitude to work through these teething problems with me. If I don't have a youngster now then I never will - we've all got to start somehwere. I've been riding most of my life and have had the more settled horse and the more settled horse with a couple of issues so this is my next step. And damn it......I love my little man to death so selling is not an option :)
 
Angelz said:
Now Im no expert by a long run but if he has two new teeth coming through and is mouthy, then the first thing that comes to my mind is are you sure hes as old as you thought? also you said you were told he was six but have since been told more like 5! My friends is almost 4 and has new teeth coming through and is mouthy :-)
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The vet aged him so i would hope that it's pretty accurate. I think he may have wolf teeth coming through?
 
Luci07 said:
He is still only a baby so things will change. A reputable chiro will not look at your horse until the vet has looked first - its different if you are just carrying on "maintenance". You know he is not comfortable and has physical issues and you have help to work through it so I would carry on - once you have cleared off his physical issues. My 5 year old is always changing shape and is also bright and inquisitive so different things keep cropping up. We work through them and then something else happens. Thats just babies for you. I do, however, feel comfortable with mine as there is no malice in him, he is just exploring boundaries! and the standing at the mounting block? that started to go wrong a couple of weeks ago for me as he knew that mounting block outside the school = hacking. Nearly back now to behaving and not moving away when I get on the block but that is just an example.
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^^this. young horses change shape regularly so to check the tack is a must
 
The trouble is with babies is that you need to put in time doing the ordinary things

If I've got one that is being a pain mounting, I'll set aside a training session on mounting and the entire session will be getting on an off from different objects and teaching them to set themselves up for you

Usually a smart horse will only ever need one dedicated session, but one with ingrained habits may take a little longer!

The shooting forwards isn't a dreadful habit and I'd rather have than a backwards one. the simple trick is every time they shoot forward to flex the neck and spin them on a tight circle - first one way and the other.

They should soon learn than shooting forwards results in work and most are lazy souls! Also the flexing of the neck is a good thing and gets all the muscles working
 
I think that at this age it is hard to decide what is naughtiness and what is pain. I do however think that there might be something in the suggestion of a RH problem (?stifle) and reluctance to canter on the left rein, as this is the leg the horse will start the canter with. Is it perhaps worth a 2 weeks bute trial to see if this improves with the left canter lead? Is he any better on the lunge?

Just throwing a few suggestions in the pot. :)
 
sare_bear said:
I think that at this age it is hard to decide what is naughtiness and what is pain. I do however think that there might be something in the suggestion of a RH problem (?stifle) and reluctance to canter on the left rein, as this is the leg the horse will start the canter with. Is it perhaps worth a 2 weeks bute trial to see if this improves with the left canter lead? Is he any better on the lunge?

Just throwing a few suggestions in the pot. :)
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Hi Sare_bear :)
May be worth trying bute but I'll stick with the chiros advice for a start and see how we are in 2 weeks time.
He's no better on the lunge at all - he just rushes in the trot insted of cantering.
 
Once you know there are no pain issues then you have to work your way through what is probably a "tantrum" stage. Many youngsters go through this at 5/6 - you think they are being good and then suddenly they decide to question you and push the goalposts back.

Moving around at the mounting block, rushing off etc is all part of it - they test you and each time you have to measure up or else they simply test you more.

Trouble is, whilst there is doubt about whether there is a pain issue, you back off them and allow them to get away with things and then that is another little notch on their stable door!

Once you know there is nothing wrong, then you make sure they do what you ask from the ground first and get the discipline. On board they go where you ask, at the pace you ask, stop when you say stop - you are calm and reward with a gentle stroke and keep quiet but be positive when they try it on..... they pretty much soon get bored when they get no reaction.

You are only wasting your time if you cannot see a way past this - a trainer used to young horse tantrums will be a help for you. Patience and determination and by the way everyone loses confidence at some time - particularly with bolshy youngsters (you start off confident and then that kid of dwindles a bit). Just take it all at your speed making sure that you ask this youngster and expect even if you don't ask an awful lot....
 
Sandylou said:
Thanks peeps.
I had the vet look at him a few months ago just to make sure there was no obvious sign of pain and also to check his eyes and all was well. My chiro also made sure that I had my vets consent for her to come out.
My friend really made me question myself even though some of the things she said were totally incorrect ie she said maybe he's a bit stiff because he hasn't done so much work before but when I first got him we were riding 6 times a week - that's now 4 times a week. Before I bought him he was schooled everyday, hunting and doing SJ clinics.
I don't want to put things down to his age only to find out later if/when things get worse that it is a physical problem.
Click to expand...

You have to go with your 'gut' feeling. Yes I agree that confidence is a delicate issue as stated by another poster and can affect things. I had a very similar situation with my young new horse. He was aggressive and did not enjoy ridden work at all. 'Experienced friends' kept telling me to get over it and that my 'gut feeling' that things were wrong was making excuses for my horse. Well funnily enough turns out my horse has a serious chronic sacroiliac injury/problem. How bad would I have felt if I 'listened' to my friend.
 
YasandCrystal said:
You have to go with your 'gut' feeling. Yes I agree that confidence is a delicate issue as stated by another poster and can affect things. I had a very similar situation with my young new horse. He was aggressive and did not enjoy ridden work at all. 'Experienced friends' kept telling me to get over it and that my 'gut feeling' that things were wrong was making excuses for my horse. Well funnily enough turns out my horse has a serious chronic sacroiliac injury/problem. How bad would I have felt if I 'listened' to my friend.
Click to expand...

^^^^ Agree with this shooting foward, reluctance to canter on ONE rein and not letting you get on as individual things I would put down to babyness but combine all 3 and I think your horse is telling you something! I would definitely go for the bute trial..
 
Sandylou said:
I feel that we've turned a corner recently though and he has the right attitude to work through these teething problems with me. If I don't have a youngster now then I never will - we've all got to start somehwere. I've been riding most of my life and have had the more settled horse and the more settled horse with a couple of issues so this is my next step. And damn it......I love my little man to death so selling is not an option :)
Click to expand...
Selling may be the better option if you cant cope with him, otherwise are you going to turn him out in a field for the next twenty years, or end up with a horse that does not suit you, you can learn to love another one!
Myself, I would get a dental technician to do his teeth , maybe not the one who came before if you don't have confidence in him, though if his teeth are changing quickly he may need done twice in four months, it is not unknown, the D Tech can only remove caps [old shells] from the new teeth, he can't stop the rate of growth. Does he have unusual mouth conformation that allow teeth to sharpen [eg jaw not aligned.
At this age you should check mouth as part of the daily checks , looking for gum inflamation.
Personally I would take his shoes off and turn him out for four to six weeks, weeks and check him over every day for heat and for his stride, ie will he walk trot and canter of his own free will.
He has had lot of work at an early stage of his life, and you have to take in to account his mental and physical capacity, also youngsters need a to be ridden and handled in a consistent manner, so more lessons are in order, maybe twice a week, whatever is needed.
 
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You think that he maybe has wolf teeth coming through, what about his canines, my boy had wolf teeth at that age, but they were tiny things just in front of main back teeth, they fell out and were never a problem. I cant find any simple books on equine dentistry, but I am sure there must be some, one of the interesting parts of having youngsters [OK I am weird] is that it takes you to new sources of information and that is how you build up experience and understanding, you learn [comparatively] very little if all goes according to plan!
I would not jump a horse unless I was sure he was 100% sound and would probably do a lot of hacking less schooling, but that is me.
Horses are still growing to age eight, so he may need time off just to build up his strength.
 
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Thanks for all your replies. It's always helpful to get other points of view.
I will continue with the chiro just to rule out any pain and to put my mind at rest. I am in a positive frame of mind now and can see what I need to work on. My boy is very genuine and doesn't have a malicious bone in his body so I truly believe that we will be fine.
I've found out that the teeth coming through are canines and not wolf teeth. Has anyone had experience with canine teeth?
 
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