Amateur Aspirations?

Gamebird

Gamebird

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I commented on my thread about the RC Areas that I thought that for a semi-serious completely amateur all-rounder competitor to compete at BE Int, BS Fox and BD Medium was probably about the most they could hope for (without buying in a been-there-done-that schoolmaster).

I've been lucky enough to have a go at all three with varying degrees of success and honestly don't see myself going any further up the levels in any of the three disciplines. I'd quite like to do better at all three, but not bigger.

What do you think is a realistic top level of achievement for an average amateur, bearing in mind time and financial constraints (and the fact that is may be possible to go further in a single discipline if that's all you do)?

And following on from that how much more do you need to put in to surpass those levels? Is that the point where talent becomes more important than just graft?
 
I think that is a realistic level but occasionally you get that special partnership that allows someone to advance further. I think in dressage particularly it is easy with good training to gradually work your way up the levels. There are also examples of amateurs competing at higher levels in SJing and Eventing. I think where the crux of the matter is that it is very difficult for amateurs to be successful at this level (my definition of success for these purposes is finishing near the top of the leaderboard). It is very hard for a true amateur with one or two rides to compete against a professional who may ride and home there skills on 6+ horses a day.

I believe graft superceeds talent in how far an amateur can get (both is even better)!
 
I think I agree with Sarah Jane in as much as I think it is easier in dressage for an amateur with a good partnership with their horse and a certain level of talent and experience to progress up higher than in BS or BE. Jumping (particularly across country) depends a lot on being able to read a situation and being able to react instinctively in a very short time frame, and that means that professional riders who are able to have much more exposure to jumping on different horses will generally have the edge on the amateurs.
 
Depends what you call the average amateur! Laura B / T will never have to work a day in her life and only rides her own horses, doesn't ride for anyone else but is obviously very well off!

Lots of "amateurs" doing GP dressage, advanced eventing just very well off! What do you call a Junior thats still at school?!!
E.g someone like Chloe Vell who funds her dressage through modelling.

If you mean the average skint amateur, that works full time and has two on the go, then it varies depending on the ability of the rider and means for training. I believe that all healthy, in shape, motivated amateurs have the ability to reach the top in a sport its just they are limited by money.

I'm in the skint category with a £100 horse and hope that injury prevailing a CCI /CIC* is within our abilities! I have a reject dressage horse that I have taught 3 time flying changes and baby piri's and can ride them with no stirrups so one day hope to get a decent score in a PSG but I think that horse is getting a little old. Need to find something a bit younger when I earn my millions!! off to look for jobs in the cayman islands.....

Really interesting topic though!
 
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Depends on the horse and rider, I guess. Time constraints on someone who works full time mean that it's difficult to get the fitness done for top level Eventing imho, I suspect (but could be wrong) that Dr and Sj are a bit easier in this one respect... unless the rider is happy to have other people do a fair bit of the riding.
I totally agree with S-J about that "special partnership", having been there. It's surprising how far you can get with amazing horses.
 
I guess it depends a bit how you define "average amateur", and what they are riding!

Certainly in show jumping, you will not get very far without a talented horse - you can be lucky to acquire a cheap one (loan, stroke of luck, homebred) but generally horses that can jump 120m + tracks and above well cost money - especially if they are easy. There are some show jumpers that would be classified as amateurs as they don't work with horses per se - there are a couple of successful lawyers, bankers etc on the circuit who don't make their money in horses and ride very well indeed - but I guess these are not the average. I would say that to get beyond 1.20m you really need a horse with talent (have you seen the standard of tracks and riders in a 1.20 class at a premier venue - serious stuff.)

Dressage wise I guess it is a little easier to get further by just riding very well and training well - even a more limited horse can probably get by at a higher level compared to show jumping - you can still compete at a high-ish level with a lower score - enter a bigger jumping class on a horse who doesn't have the ability and you will just be eliminated/crash and burn. I don't know enough about eventing to comment, and I think you rely more on a talented horse here than in dressage (we are obviously not talking Olympic standard dressage!) but again my guess would still be that show jumping is the discipline most dependent on the talent of the animal, and is therefor perhaps the least likely one for a (non-rich) amateur rider to get really far in.

In short - :D - I believe graft, and secondly money, will get the amateur further than talent will!
 
Interesting question. I have just started reading 'Bounce' by Matthew Syed which discusses the extent to which hard work, practice, luck and talent can influence results. I guess 'luck' could also include your genetic disposition towards, or ability to pursue, a financially rewarding and accommodating career that means you can afford (financially and from a time POV) to put in the hard work and practice - this, to a certain extent, will take you up to a certain point. I'm guessing that is at BE Int level, possibly advanced with a special partnership. I couldn't comment on the other disciplines. I will let you know if I change my mind once I've finished the book!
 
My ambitions within riding are currently, to get round a BE 90.... not to come last at every show I enter, and not to fall off!
 
Agree that it's probably slightly easier to progress in dressage for the reasons said above. I'm an amateur and want to progress, with SJ to 1.30 ish level and event to BE100, dressage Adv Med - that is with two very different horses.

I believe I'll get there but what hold me back most is lack of ring experience and that's due to lack of funds mostly. Not enough money for as many lessons as I'd like, plus with full time work it's hard to fit in lessons particularly in winter, and I can only afford to compete a couple of times a month.

Downside is I like to do different disciplines, I think if I focused on just one I'd get progress faster but how do you choose? I have one horse who suits eventing/ dressage and the other is SJ. I'm hoping to progress both as far as we can go and I've got my mare in foal to breed a SJ hopefully.
 
agree with all said above about the diff diciplines.

i think BD gives amateurs the most scope for success too really, with the layers of competition it has-AF, regionals,inter county team, home international, Premier leagues, UK CDI, then international. its very hard to *bottom out* at a certain level with nothing else to aim for, so even a very average horse, as long as its very well trained and very well ridden, could qualify for eg the AF champs, and be placed etc or get a home international team place.

anything where leaving the ground is involved is harder to quantify, eg i want to do a GP (dressage) on CS and just get 60%+ but to say the same about SJ, to want to jump a proper (1.50m) GP, you need the horse to do it on or its dangerous, and thats serious money......does that make sense?

time wise eventing is the hardest, with all the fitenning and course walking etc.

and of course if you are a one horse band, every time that horse is injured you are off games and getting un fit for weeks/months. not so for a multi horse pro.
 
wench said:
My ambitions within riding are currently, to get round a BE 90.... not to come last at every show I enter, and not to fall off!
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Lol, this is the same as me although at BN. I think finances do determine how far you get in the sport, which is something a lot of averages amatures don't have! I certainly couldn't (and wouldn't) spend the money on a horse that is a Grand Prix prospect when competing isn't my 'job' When spending that kind of money I think you have to be a professional to get the most out of a horse like that.

Personally I'm poor lol and have no option other than to buy a 'cheap' youngster and work hard to make him good. I will be over the moon if I get my BN double clears this year after working my a*** off for so long :)
 
slumdog said:
I think finances do determine how far you get in the sport, which is something a lot of averages amatures don't have! I certainly couldn't (and wouldn't) spend the money on a horse that is a Grand Prix prospect when competing isn't my 'job' When spending that kind of money I think you have to be a professional to get the most out of a horse like that.
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The money aspect is interesting. I have made a conscious decision to decrease my horse numbers and focus my limited finances on lessons and competing on one horse and try to throw everything at doing that one horse well rather than spreading myself thinly over two or three horses. I have been able to double the amount of lessons and so far the results are speaking for themselves. However in doing so I have also limited the amount of riding experience that I get...

I agree with PS about the dressage. Whilst I think my competitive jumping has topped out at 1.20 (and having jumped Fox with two different horses - neither very successfully - I don't find myself looking at 1.20 classes thinking 'I wish I was doing that again'), I do think that if I were to exceed my stated limits in any discipline it might be dressage. Having got from the point where Medium seemed like it was only for the special people, to actually competing at that level, AM suddenly doesn't seem completely impossible. Maybe next year, maybe the one after but a hell of a lot more likely than suddenly deciding that I want to jump 1.30s or go BE Adv.
 
Swirlymurphy said:
Interesting question. I have just started reading 'Bounce' by Matthew Syed which discusses the extent to which hard work, practice, luck and talent can influence results. I guess 'luck' could also include your genetic disposition towards, or ability to pursue, a financially rewarding and accommodating career that means you can afford (financially and from a time POV) to put in the hard work and practice - this, to a certain extent, will take you up to a certain point. I'm guessing that is at BE Int level, possibly advanced with a special partnership. I couldn't comment on the other disciplines. I will let you know if I change my mind once I've finished the book!
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I have also read this book and it is quite inspiring because it makes you believe that you can achieve anything with the right amount of practice. However, i think the majority of sports are very different to horse riding because it is pretty much the only sport that involves another living being. For example, i know that to improve my showjumping i actually need to jump more fences to get my eye in and to practice, but with horses thats impossible because if you only have 1 or 2 you cannot keep jumping them and jumping them because it damages them mentally and physically. If i was playing tennis and i needed to work on my forehand, i could just keep hitting and hitting it until it became ingrained.

I have gone slightly off topic but i think the above will also limit the level that most amateurs can achieve because most of us just simply don't get enough practice. Although on the other side of the coin, it is a sport where "feel" and a natural affinity for horses can sometimes mean more than the practice.
 
There is no reason why amateurs can't do aswell as anyone else! With the right horse there's no reason to stop at any level.
I've been lucky enough to have an amazing horse. He isn't well bred but with hard work he is doing very well at a high level. Time constraints are the problem, his fitness won't be as good as a pro's but if he goes around happily and safely with a few time pens it doesn't matter.
I think it's important to remember as an amateur the aim is to enjoy it!
 
I agree with you entirely. The huge majority just don't have the time or money to take the next step as it were. I have done a bit less than you in terms of level of competition on horses, but I was fortunate to be part of the junior showing and jumping circuit as a kid, it's not a hobby at that level it is a way of life and everything revolves around the horse/s.
I am struggling for motivation at the moment because I am not competing, I have done pretty well with the horses I've had (within our limits!) and I am not really sure I have the time or the dedication to do much more :-/
 
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