Amateur Riders at BSJA, what to aim for?

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KatB

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Ok, being a newby to BSJA, I am still a bit confused to what qualifies for what! And obviously, having read claire's post about disco 2nd rounds, and reading the rule book regarding heights, it seems they are difficult to do well in if you are a true amateur!

I know there is the amateur series, but from what I have gathered, they are lots of experienced horses galloping around smaller heights?! ;)

I am limited because of time, lack of experience (relatively) and having young horse. She should go up the levels ok, but obviously is still a young horse ridden by a one horse amateur :p

SO, what to aim for?! :D :D

Thank you!
 
I am guessing that in reality there is only the amateur champs to aim for, which as you have said you will be up against some very experienced schoolmaster horses. From what I can gather from posts on here the second rounds are very much a speed class! I guess if you qualify and go to a 2nd round Amateur qualifier you would have to see it as an opportunity to ride in a "bigger" environment if that makes sense, especially if you were not ready/wanting to chase the clock.

After that I would say just set your own realistic goals, go at your own pace to achieve them, nothing is written in stone and enjoy what you do. You could aim to get your 4 BN double clears, nice to achieve them but you dont have to do 2nd rounds etc.
 
Thanks SGH :) Makes perfect sense. In a couple of years I would like to be more competitive in things like regionals, but in no hurry! As you say, I am still going to aim for 4 DC's, and 2 at the amateur series, just so I've got the options :D I like the idea of the Blue Chips, but know they are seriously competitive and speed classes! Not that Lucky would mind ;)
 
Dont be too dis heartened by the 2nd rounds!

Sniff - the bay in on the end of my sig jumped the disco 2nd rounds as a 5yr old with me.
I thought we had no chance - but i knew he was capable of the 1.25 heights in the last round - plus it was at Norton heath so was MASSIVE!

I jumped nicely round all 3 rounds and went clear in all 3 - finishing 3rd, behind a very expensive grey horse called Coer (?) if anyone remebers him?!

Basically what im saying is - yes, people will race round the under 1.05 classes at BS - but they have poles too! Every horse does at some point.

With all my novices ive always picked up rosttes from 3rd down by jumping nicely - occasionally i was the only DC too as people went TOO fast.

I think if you have a young horse you should aim for the BN / Disco 2nd rounds - at least then the classes are limited to 'novices' of that year where as the amatuer classes are open to mostly anyone on any level of horse really.

I do one stay away show a year (as in the whole week) - it used to be Scope but i can never get the leave for it now and it is SO expensive - ive been to the Arena show in September twice and loved it.
Its friendly, has small classes for novices each day and a 2 win a car classes where u can aim to get in the main ring -as well as the pros jumping 1.40 GP/ puissances in the evenings for you to watch - i think it is a nice thing for an amatuer to be able to compete in the day and watch these classes for free (ive never got why people pay for horse of the year etc when u can watch the same standard of jumping at other shows for nothing!)

I have gone off on a bit of a tangent!
There are plenty of classes to aim for and plenty of little goals (even little ones) to acheive during the year!
 
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Hi KatB, am very much in the same boat as you! I have just registered, done two BN's, one double clear & one pole.

My Sj instructor has made it very clear that I should be going for steady double clears, turning in JO & not galloping! & go for four BN double clears & then the amateurs (as much more experienced horses can do these?)

anyway, the amateurs qualification cuts off soon (I think), so best to wait, for the next years, as you will have a whole years extra experience under your belt? Well thats what I am doing anyway!!!

Keep us updated as progress!!!
 
Hi Kat, welcome to the fun if a little confusing world of BS it has taken me years to get my head around all the different classes :). I would aim for the BN and DISCO regionals next year BN starts at 1m05 and DISCO 1m10 and it is very much about jumping, in the final jump off everyone goes very fast but as Vicki said lots have fences so you could be lucky and qualify with a triple clear. Same goes for the Blue Chips at least these don't go massive! There are some people who go very fast but often a double clear will get you qualified, at Addington last year in the DISCO there were only 2 double clears out of 100 entries. So if you have a careful jumping horse you don't have to race against the clock.

I haven't been to the Arena festival but I am going this year and have been told that it is really good and it is achievable to get through to the championship ring without galloping really fast (although i think in the win a car classes there are a lot of grade A's!) Scope is expensive but I have qualifed this year and can't wait to go it should be a great experience and one I may not get the chance to do again. Heights for this start at 1m and i'm sure at the finals people will gallop I managed to qualify in 2 classes without being that fast :)

The most important thing is you have fun :)
 
I am a total old amateur but my horse is out of Newcomers so the only thing I can do is the amateur championships. Unfortunately we don't really do double clears anyway, so I just set my own goals - if I can get around a 1.20 or 1.25 one day without disaster, I'll die a happy person. Until then (which will most likely be the day hell freezes over) I just want to go to fun show weekends with nice weather, friends and bbq and wine in the evenings and do the odd class in the daytime. :-D I am old now, it has to be FUN!
 
Well I am beginning to feel slightly disillusioned by BS, its the amateurs that fund the shows and yet there isn't that much to aim for!

My observations:
Second rounds :- Forget it, have to have a very special horse jumping foxhunter to win the BN ones, always won by professionals / people with lots of horses and jumping more than one horse.

Amateurs :- Fine until you get to the finals, which are miles away for me and you will be beaten by whippy grade A/B's

Blue Chips :- Love this series, however once you are out of discovery the 1.10m championship class is 1.15m and again just a bit too high powered. Means that once out of disco and you are not jumping 1.20m tracks, there is just a non-qualifying 1.05m class and that's it

Scope :- has a 1m (disco limited) and 1.05m class, so something that can be aimed for.

I am kind of thinking I am going to get stuck at some point, because I think 1.10m classes are my limit, because jump offs bigger than 1.20m make me squeal! (Actually the jump of to a 1.10m will do that too)
 
KatB said:
Thanks SGH :) Makes perfect sense. In a couple of years I would like to be more competitive in things like regionals, but in no hurry! As you say, I am still going to aim for 4 DC's, and 2 at the amateur series, just so I've got the options :D I like the idea of the Blue Chips, but know they are seriously competitive and speed classes! Not that Lucky would mind ;)
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Blue Chip is very fun! Even if you don't win the experience is brilliant and the gala evening on the friday is brilliant with a 148 fun class, a masterclass with Geoff Billington, Tim Stockdale or Ben Maher then the grand prix is awesome :) The classes are bug numbers but its fun.

I would aim for Scope Festival if I was you and perhaps once you have moved up the grades Amateur finals at HOYs etc. Good luck at first its intimidating but its just brilliant :)
 
Hi, A lot of show centres also hold amateur shows, there is one at Weston Lawns at the end of July and one at Wales in August, both have classes from 70cm to 1.20. I would also second the recommendations for Arena UK in September, really good classes from 95cm up and lots of bigger classes to watch.
 
CotswoldSJ said:
Well I am beginning to feel slightly disillusioned by BS, its the amateurs that fund the shows and yet there isn't that much to aim for!

My observations:
Second rounds :- Forget it, have to have a very special horse jumping foxhunter to win the BN ones, always won by professionals / people with lots of horses and jumping more than one horse.

Amateurs :- Fine until you get to the finals, which are miles away for me and you will be beaten by whippy grade A/B's

Blue Chips :- Love this series, however once you are out of discovery the 1.10m championship class is 1.15m and again just a bit too high powered. Means that once out of disco and you are not jumping 1.20m tracks, there is just a non-qualifying 1.05m class and that's it

Scope :- has a 1m (disco limited) and 1.05m class, so something that can be aimed for.

I am kind of thinking I am going to get stuck at some point, because I think 1.10m classes are my limit, because jump offs bigger than 1.20m make me squeal! (Actually the jump of to a 1.10m will do that too)
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i agree mostly, apart from bluechip comment... :) But yes, 2nd rounds in BN/Disc etc are really for the pros and aren't really an amateur thing... Amateur's are good 1st and 2nd rounds... and the finals are a good show BUT again, a lot of grade A/B horses in it... but still i think something to aim for :) i'm aiming for them! Scope and Bluechips are great IMO :) go for it KatB.. just do what you want, but make sure its FUN!! :D :D xx
 
My aims? To get round! :D
My new boy was bought to be competative at 1.20m, he has the scope and talent i am however slightly lacking at both. :o
The plan is, as he's has done nothing and i havent done much for years, will be to concentrate on double clears at bn, d and n all in good time. I will do qualifiers for things like Blue Chip, Scope and the Amatures at whatever level im at at the time and see what happens. Im trying not to get to hung up on this, that and the other and have fun.
If by some twist of fate i qualify for any champs i will think about going but will chose carefully as i dont really see the point of going if you have race at 100mph to win.
That could all change once ive learnt to ride him properly and i could be competative over the bigger courses. Maybe not :o :D
 
Lots of good comments from all angles, all basically saying in general it would depend on the ability of the horse.

I loved having a stab at Newc regionals and did not disgrace ourselves and the blue chips, but a few yrs ago think the class sizes are huge now - as is scope. Arena UK was also excellent, ditto comments on competing yourself and watching the "big guys" in the grand prix - who also have their babies in the lower classes.

Have several proud memories of beating names (albeit on their youngsters) and the youngster going on to big stuff :)

But very sorry i think the amateur series is not restricted to amateurs, I know a lot of pros who are eligible and do complete, its not for the one or two horse owners with a day job at all. :(
 
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digger2 said:
But very sorry i think the amateur series is not restricted to amateurs, I know a lot of pros who are eligible and do complete, its not for the one or two horse owners with a day job at all. :(
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I agree with this, I think BS need to look at the eligibility criteria how is it fair that people who ride/jump all day everyday are classed as amateurs? There is a young lady in my area who always jumps the small amateur classes on her ex 1m40 young rider horse and she rides full time for a living.
 
claire_p2001 said:
I think BS need to look at the eligibility criteria how is it fair that people who ride/jump all day everyday are classed as amateurs? There is a young lady in my area who always jumps the small amateur classes on her ex 1m40 young rider horse and she rides full time for a living.
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hear hear!

I know of a few riders that take their ex grade A horses into everything from the 1m nat am to the 1.15 nat am classes! It is not fair on the amatuer riders at all esp those who are trying to produce younger horses :(
 
I wondered what the Am rules were as several what I would call 'pros' who do SJ horses for a living seem to do them round here, have noted its not including top 450 on the rankings.
 
I have a simple aim. To take home more money than I spent on entries. :D I get a buzz from the venue having to pay me at the end of the day.
Qaulifying for something or other is a bonus.
Do agree the BN/Disco second rounds are the domain of the pro's whilst am. champs final below 1.10 is just old school Unaff charging around :p
Scope and blue chip are where I would hope to qualify current horse.

BN / disco second rounds would be much more fun if horse had to still be eligible for the first round class in terms of winnings. Would stop the pro's getting the 4DC's in May then spending the next year getting the horse jumping foxhunter. Will never happen though. Hence my first aim. :D
 
Lovely. Thanks guys! So amateurs are worth playing at, bluechip def worth doing, isn't scope the bn/disco finals? Am aiming to go to arena uk in september anyway, and am at weston next wkend for their amateur thing :D thanks again!
 
BN finals etc are at scope but they do other qualifiying classes depending on winnings at 1m, 1m05, 1m15 and 1m20. These are easier to qualify for, you have to be in the top 6 and its over 2 rounds not 3. but at the finals these classes get 100's of entries!
 
Just go to a show and enter what class you want and do the best you can. Don't try and get your 4DCs as it just isn't worth it. Our Spotty horse came 3rd and 4th in the BN and Disco regionals and never qualified for the finals as they don't get enough starters in them anymore. At the Dorset Disco regional this year only the first horse qualified - I think that is disgusting. Why is it in British Novice and Disco only a maximum of 3 horses can qualify for the final? In Newcomers and Fox 10 horses qualify, in all the junior classes including their BN and Disco - 10 ponies qualify.
Why is the most heavily prescribed/popular classes penalised like this?

My horse has won too much money to jump anything but Amateur classes and I do enjoy jumping around 90cm tracks:p
 
KatB said:
isn't scope the bn/disco finals? Am aiming to go to arena uk in september anyway, and am at weston next wkend for their amateur thing :D thanks again!
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yes scope do have BN and Disc finals... but they also have many diff. qualifying classes i.e. katherine james 1m qual. (which im doing on sunday! :eek: crikey! lol, doubt i'll qualify ;) lol) and also a 1m05 adventurer class... and others at 1m15 and 1m20. Its always just like a normal showjumping comp over 2 rounds; first round and then jump off... and first 6 placings qualify :) i'm going to have a bash at the KJ 1m, why not :)

oo, i'll see you at weston lawns next weekend then! and probably arena uk's grand prix show thing in sept! :D xx
 
This is a fab poast v interesing, its nice to no that there are lots of other people sj with just one horse, i am new to BS and have one young horse, i put lots of effort in and am constantly trying to improve me and my gg and one day hope that bigger classes an horses with fancy breeding as apposed to "unspecified" lol will come my way ;) but it can be a bit dissheartning when people are flying round on v expensive talented steeds and jockeys may i add lol, and i am left feeling like a bit of a pleb :p i truelly enjoy my sj tho and pottering round bn disc is just great for now and i owe it all to my lovely if not somewhat nameless in the sj world nagg :D
 
I'm a typical amateur and the one thing i would say is that there really is no such thing as a true amateur class in BS. The eligibility criteria for the national amateur series is such that most of the people i have trained with over the years could, if they wanted to, compete against me in the 'amateur' classes :O That said, in the 4 or 5 years i have been back contesting these classes i have managed to qualify both of my horses (one well out of foxhunter with ability to jump bigger tracks, the other still in BN....both having to put up with me on top messing things up!) for at least one of the amateur second rounds every year....and on one occasion qualified one for the finals too. I have also managed to qualify one of them for the Blue Chip finals and gained the required 4 x BN DC's. I have also been eliminated on both horses on more occasions than i care to remember in exactly the same classes lol!

Over the years my view has changed....from wanting to qualify for everything and win these big finals, to just enjoying my jumping and seeing how much money i can win with my horses over their careers. If i had a youngster i'd certainly aim for my DC's in all the qualifying classes up to the limit of the horses ability...and if i got them i'd jump the regional finals too as it's great experience and 'you just never know' what might happen. It also looks good on their CV's and you never know when you might have to sell :p I wouldn't get hung up on qualifying for the finals or getting beaten by pro's though.

BTW...The amateur finals (at all venues, not just the national amateur champs) tend to be dominated by a fairly small and elite set of 'amateurs' that travel the country contesting such championships....they are invariably on super-fast grade A's and often as not they ride / compete pretty much every week...and if not, they are often livery yards owners, breeders, or part-time dealers. Just scan the results for the different amateur classes that go on every year....Towerlands, Hickstead, Wales and West etc...

I compete at an average of about 10 to 15 shows per year by comparison :p
 
Im an amateur and do BSJA as well as BE. BSJA-wise I have never bothered to aim for any second rounds or champs purely because they are too far away from me (NE Scotland). We've qualified for 2nd rounds etc. but cant be bothered to drive to them as they're usually about 4 hours away. I just do BSJA to win money ;) I simply do classes to try and win them, my only aim was to try and make my horse a grade B (and we're close) and do 1.20m classes which we do. Im more of an eventer though so dont take BSJA very seriously :P It really depends what you want to do - if its your SOLE disipline then I'd probably enter all the qualifiers, 2nd rounds etc. you can. Yes, there will be good horses but they have off days too, it just makes you want to get better.
 
I have to agree with this, if you look in the last 2 editions of h&h you will see that Stacey Babes has qualifies for the Hoys amateur and the foxhunter final! Now she is no amateur with her father running a huge dealing yard, their income comes from horses so they are surely not amateurs???
I think the easiest way would be to use rankings and horse winnings for the amateur classes, then it would truely be a weekend rider on there home produced horse but then it would cut out alot of people! So i think there is no easy answer !
 
little_flea said:
I just want to go to fun show weekends with nice weather, friends and bbq and wine in the evenings and do the odd class in the daytime. :-D I am old now, it has to be FUN!
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Im only 24, and this has to been one of the main reasons i do it! just love the socialising part ;)

As most people have said aim for your double clears & go from there. I dont really like doing the open's as they are so fast, but would quite like to aim for Blue Chips next year :)
 
Quadro said:
I think the easiest way would be to use rankings and horse winnings for the amateur classes, then it would truely be a weekend rider on there home produced horse but then it would cut out alot of people! So i think there is no easy answer !
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Introducing restrictions on the horses winnings in these classes would, as you say, alienate far too many people such as the genuine amateur who is riding a Grade A horse to gain competition experience.

I no longer want to produce young horses and not being a particularly good showjump rider like to ride something that has competed at a higher level than me which helps my confidence. I am not interested in qualifying for this, that or the other, for me the challenge is to improve as a rider aiming to jump rythmical balanced double clears and move up a height class if and when I feel comfortable, any placings/qualifications etc are considered a bonus. To that end the amateur classes are perfect for me in the current format.

My understanding of the concept of the amateur series was that it was to give the less experienced rider the opportunity to ride competatively on a schoolmaster horse, which, to my mind it does.
 
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