American Eventing..

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Mercury91

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Well its been a while since I have posted. I am only back here when something gets under my skin. Well!! The steps being taken in the US for Safety is out of control. Where do I start!! Red Hills which my advanced horse got around wasnt a problem!! Darren's mishap was a fluke (At Prelim) and what does the other 2 horses deaths have to with Eventing saftey? They could have just as easily died in stabling. So what are the repercussions of Red Hills? A CCI** at Ocala Horse Park that was a joke!!! WHy do I complain?? Now you get someone all qualified to do a 3 star or needing there second CCI** and go the Jersey Fresh CCI** and get killed!! Jersey Fresh is Rolex compared to the joke of a course that was set up at Ocala Horse Park. I have also seen video of the CIC*** Star at the Fork and the water was a joke!! UK People you should just start the banning process for us US Riders now!! Cause at the pace of what I have seen in just a month we will all get killed eventing in the UK!! I am heading to the CIC*** Maui im in July I hope it hasnt been dumbed down also! Now I have to re-think doing Bady in 2009 Maybe I should win Advanced here and aim for Premil glory in the UK!!
 
ah ok .....but.....i still only onderstand half of it lol, what i think you are saying is that they have seriously dumbed down american eventing so that experience isnt gained and if coming to somewhere like badminton in uk which is harder usa riders will be at risk through having underprepared horses? ???
 
Eventerman,

It must be an amazing sight to see how you stuff your tremendous testicles into your breeches.

You are displaying an amazing ignorance of what is happening, given that you are supposedly such a top level eventer. The problems in the US are just as prevalent in the UK, Australia, and Germany. It is not just a single country. If you were to look at the recent studies done for BE at the University of Bristol you would see that the things you dismiss in the US are happening with the same frequency in the UK.

It is not just courses. It is riders who think they are too good and too tough pushing beyond the horse's limits. It is officials who are so busy with other things that they have not been able to keep up with all of the data and understanding of the risks in eventing.

The US is working with BE and universities in the US are working with Bristol, all to figure out what is going on.
 
I agree the problems seem to be worldwide. However could some of the problems in the US be geographical? In the UK you can event every week and there are more opportunities run at advanced level and above. Also in the US the numbers competing in some sections are considerably lower, therefore do some riders gain qualification to compete at the next level and FEI points just because of lack of numbers in classes?
 
It shows how differnet people are in different countries.. You people amaze me!!! I cleary said the same thing you are saying.. where do you see me blameing courses?? Its the riders who are the problem!!! But dummying down XC COurses isnt the answer... Not a a single person in my barn right now that can understand how my testicles need to go somewhere?? Not a clue how my broadcast and comment warranted your idiotic statement .
 
dummying down the xc is surely a knee-jerk reaction, designed to show the world that the powers that be are doing something. it is a risk sport, we all know that, but we need more training of riders, more assessments, and more brutal honesty if riders aren't quite as good as they think they are. i agree, some falls are just freakish and terribly unfortunate, there wouldn't have been a more experienced rider than Darren Chiacchia riding around that Prelim course, i believe. but some falls are a little easier to understand, and it is those that we need to try to prevent. until better assessment and training systems are firmly in place, perhaps softer courses will be a partial answer to try to prevent any other fatalities.
 
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Yeah sorry, after I hit send I realized I wasnt writting this on a board in the US sorry everyone....

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ummmmm American here and still cannot understand half of it!
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Nobody in the US has even suggested that courses are being dumbed down. Why is that many of the top courses are designed by European designers? Why is it that the majority of deaths, both horse and rider are in Europe? You say the US riders are weak but, again, there is as much problem here as the US. Again, it is not a US thing. I agree that better oversight and testing may be in the future.

As a person involved in the research on safety in eventing, I absolutely understand your confusion about your ballsy statement. Suffice to say it still remains ignorant.
 

(Eventerman,

It must be an amazing sight to see how you stuff your tremendous testicles into your breeches.)


rayers , remarks like that are totally uncalled for and childish ,



as for the global eventing scene there seems to be a diluge in the last few years of fatal rider/horse accidents by very experienced combinations , is it the jumps fault? , the terrain? the horse? or the courses? , who knows , i hope they do find out soon to prevent more of these dreadful injuries ,,i personally cant comment on the dumbing down of american courses as i,ve never been to an event in the states , but i would think surely that we need to address the difference if there is one in heights or difficulties and make the standards uniform worldwide so that horses and riders are prepared wherever in the world they compete
 
Given the apparent history of Darren's horse (since he's been used as an example of a mysterious fall) I think that situation may in fact have been more foreseeable than some others. Which doesn't make it any less horrific or unfortunate but does point out part of the problem . . . at the end of the day people make individual choices and it's impossible to legislate for every situation. It may not even be a good idea.

A friend of mine heads one of the committees in North America currently examining this situation and what we might all do to limit accidents in the future - we've talked extensively about it. The fact is it is complicated. There are many factors in play - courses, rider education, coaching, current pressures and structures in the sport, economic pressures, liability concerns, social changes etc. etc. The list is long and the causes interdependent.

The fact is it's a dangerous sport. That is part of the point, part of what people "enjoy". Accidents happen. I am NOT saying this is an acceptable situation AT ALL but I am saying it's not that hard to make something safe, but it's very hard to make it dangerous AND safe!

It's also easy to say there should be less intervention but that's not the way the world is going and eventing doesn't exist in a vacuum.

As far as "dumbing down", I started eventing in North America 25 years ago and while I agree courses have changed, I don't agree that at the relative levels they've got easier in every way, shape and form. (I will say they are less consistent in North America than here.) When I spoke to riders with experience on both continents for an article recently they all said that in the most "horsey" areas at least, courses compared pretty much equally.

I don't think it's that simple. I suspect some of the "solution" is going to have to come from people agreeing on what's important to the sport as a whole - a process which will, almost by definition, be impossible to do by consensus and will leave some people unhappy. Plus sa change, plus sa meme chose.

I don't know, I don't have answers.
 
what was the history of Darren's horse, out of interest?
the fact that it was such a very experienced rider on a prelim course made me think that it was a totally freakish bad-luck fall, just one of those awful things where the horse maybe somehow reads it wrong, and either simply doesn't get high enough or tries to add another stride. it sounds as if this is what happened to Laine and Frodo too.
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surely we have all been there xc, when we see a terrible stride and the horse either very generously picks up on a silly long one for us, and sails it, or manages to chip one in and still stay upright somehow. the fact that we choose to ride at speed over fixed fences, and the combination of human and horse brain and body trying to work in harmony, means that sometimes things will go wrong, misunderstandings will happen, and if we're very very lucky we'll get away with it. i hate to have to say it, but sometimes it really does, in spite of all the experience, training, careful selection of athletic horses, etc etc etc, all come down to luck.
 
Amazing!!

Has anyone on this Forum seen the Jersey Fresh CCI** course? and the Ocala CCI** Joke of a course?

So can some explain why the course was supposed to be 5600m and when we get there we are told its now 4400m?? 4400m for a CCI?? My ears are all open if someone can explain what happened there. The weather was perfect and had been perfect for 2 weeks!! Myself and just about everyone one that was walking the course while I was out there where shocked and shaking their heads. First Water wasn’t even a drop in to the water it was a jump that was just dragged and put at the beginning of it.. then a small bounce 1 stride to small prelim jump... Second Water?? Jump a 3 foot alligator...then run into water nd run out like a Novice course!! Now all the riders who need 2 CCI**'s will have 1 under there belt! Unless they plan to dummy down Bromont or Jersey Fresh they are going to see courses like they have never seen before!! OK Defensive readers fire away the above are facts as I always post here!! Everything I post is first hand and for the love of the sport.. Capt Mark isnt the problem!! Riders and trainers are so we need to make it hard to move up period!! I know all the blow hards who are going to say Darren and other incidents don’t apply and I AGREE!! If we remove the ones that do apply then we don’t have half the deaths and serious accidents Darren is a non issue period!! That was a fluke!! The young girl who died at the Ocala CCI** in 2007?? Absolutely 100% was avoidable!!

OK my you know whats are jamed in my pants so ready be kicked!!!
 
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what was the history of Darren's horse, out of interest?
the fact that it was such a very experienced rider on a prelim course made me think that it was a totally freakish bad-luck fall, just one of those awful things where the horse maybe somehow reads it wrong, and either simply doesn't get high enough or tries to add another stride. it sounds as if this is what happened to Laine and Frodo too.
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If you look at the other link I posted the vid of Lainey's fall is on YouTube and yes it does appear Frodo put in a short extra stride and just did not get high enough.
 
uhhh, isn't this a worldwide issue? Aren't horses and riders dying across the globe?
Eventermen at it again! And posting on the uk site no doubt because we call him on his nastiness.
We are trying to have a real heart to heart over the pond with the state of affairs.
I came over to this site to see what the Brits are up to and all I see is this.
What are you guys doing about all the deaths of riders and horses? Just curious.
 
Um, eventermen? Would you like to explain which of the three men in the advanced division at Red Hills you are? I guarantee you weren't one of the men in the CIC divisions. So tell me again how you just skipped around. I need a good laugh.
 
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Um, eventermen? Would you like to explain which of the three men in the advanced division at Red Hills you are? I guarantee you weren't one of the men in the CIC divisions. So tell me again how you just skipped around. I need a good laugh.

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Your Confused but I like it that way... um I sit when I pee and graduated High School many years ago, so not interested in playing with you... grow up!
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How abut responding to any absolute facts I brought up?
 
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