American gag - severity and can you use two reins?

[Ranyhyn]

http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=287&jssCart=5a1dbdbecc3ef4e605db83d7f0f509af

Can you use two reins with this? And also how severe is it?

 

[flyingfeet]

Yes you can use 2 reins

I would prefer a lozenge version every time

Severity - without a curb, it has around 3" of gag action and them stops, the action is less sharp than a bubble bit as the shanks are longer

Used with a curb turns into a much stronger bit as you get mechanical advantage

 

[Ranyhyn]

Thank you Jen Cots. Looking for something to help get my heavy IDxTb horses head UP when he's being rude. He's a low tank type! Ideally want to use it with two reins because when he's not being rude he doesn't need anything more than a snaffle action really.
Please see pic..
http://www.markel-photography.co.uk/Sport/equestrian/100503_sb/c5/_MG_3623.jpg.htm
ETA- could it help with directional issues?

 

[MillionDollar]

I use this on my cob when doing fast work, but she has a very very high head carriage. And I know Mary King uses it on Apache Sauce who also has a high head carriage so I don't think it is suitable to get a horses head up at all!!!

I think a single jointed Kimblewick or similar would be much better..........you don't want anything with poll pressure

 

[Ranyhyn]

I read that a gag raises and a curb drops... maybe I am reading the wrong articles! Basing that on my local shop saying it was similar to a NS elevator, with the apparent clue being in the name!!
This is why I havent changed his bit for 2 years - no-one seems to be able to give solid advice

 

[OneInAMillion]

I don't like them on horses with small heads though as a few times I have seen as the rider pulls the rein the top part of gag (loop cheekpiece goes through) gets pushed upwards into the horses eye

 

[flyingfeet]

You need a running gag to lift the head - so one on true runners

American, universal, continental and the like are "faux gags", they only have limited gag action and if the horse is pulling they go beyond their gag limitations and lower the head

If you want help with steering, then I would highly recommend a nelson gag (aka full cheek running gag!)

Ref the American gag, these tend to have bad steering unless you have a rein on the snaffle shank

 

[Ranyhyn]

Thanks Jen Cots, I will have a look at that minefield!

 

[martlin]

Cheltenham, balding gag would be my choice

 

[Ranyhyn]

Thanks E

Which one on here would you suggest? They do a trial, which sounds ideal!
http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/search.php?xSearch=running+gag

 

[angelish]

i was given a mare who had been ridden in an american gag and it very definatley lifted her head to the point where her ears were nearly in your mouth in a snaffle she would lower her head.
i tried one with another mare i had and it was ok but i agree about the steering not being very good at all unless another rein used on the top ring but i never tried this as i decided i didn't like it anyway and went back to a good old pelham

so yes you can use 2 reins and my opinion is that i found it quite servere and the horses i seen/rode in one tended to lift there heads to avoid the action of it to the point of nearly hitting you in the face

although all horses are different and it might suit yours so would be worth a try it sounds like your best bet would be to find a website ( is it the bit bank ) where you can hire different bits and try a few as it might end up costing you a fortune , good luck

 

[martlin]

Thanks E

Which one on here would you suggest? They do a trial, which sounds ideal!
http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/search.php?xSearch=running+gag

This one, as it will help with steering as well
http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=64

Or you could try the elevator, but a gag would be my preference, with 2 reins

 

[Ranyhyn]

E did you deliberately pick me the 60 smacker one!!?

*Looks for a cheaper alternative*

 

[martlin]

What can I say... I've got expensive taste
I'll try to find you a cheaper one

 

[Sneedy]

My NS elevator is still looking for a new home......we failed to meet up last time I was home and I've not done anything re rehoming it!!
PM if you're interested, it's a 5.5inch but was too big for my chap.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Sneeds! I really need to re-measure his mouth, I did it last time but I cant remember what the outcome was (typical airhead!) if its the right size I will get in touch

I have expensive taste too, sadly, no expansive wallet to match *sobs*

 

[Sneedy]

No worries! Just let me know......you've prob guessed that I'm a lazy whatsit when it comes to selling stuff

 

[flyingfeet]

Here's a cheaper alternative at £18

Work of the devil though as has a single joint...

 

[Ranyhyn]

Hmm I need one of those with a lozenge! He currently is in a KK loose ring with a lozenge and goes well in it, just not for fast work!

 

[martlin]

Did you try Verbindent?

 

[Starbucks]

IME - AGs are really quite severe and much much stronger than a dutch gag. I can't tell the difference from a snaffle in a DG with my horse but an american one has him well held!

I used it with 2 reins but think the "snaffle" rein also has a leverage action because it's not round, and the mouth peice slides to the top and the rein to the bottom.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Verbindent?

 

[martlin]

Verbindent?

http://www.nsbits.com/index.php/dressage-legal/verbindend.html

or just a waterford?

 

[yeeharider]

Remember bits are only as harsh as the hands that use them!!!!! The AG stopped my mare in her tracks when used with one rein,I now use it for XC with leather roundings which she accepts happily, if I find her setting against it I alternate with the waterford snaffle. Its all trial and error as every horse is different