Amy Tryon - deja vu - anyone else remember Atlanta '96?

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kanter

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I had not seen the Amy Tryon/ Le Samurai footage before, but it is so similar to Charlotte Bathe's performance at Atlanta '96 when her horse (Cool Customer) clearly broke down before the last fence of the cross country but she continued over the fence and through the finish. She may have been in contention for an individual medal, I can't remember, but obviously could not do the SJ as the horse was f***ed. They tried to salvage him for PR reasons and I'm not sure if it was ultimately destroyed or not.

I just find it interesting that this didn't cause anything like the outcry of the Amy Tryon incident and I wonder if this is because there was no internet / you tube? I remeber the incident clearly as I had videoed it and replayed it several times- it was so obvious that the horse had broken down. However if you just saw it once your perception might be different.

Pointless post really, I just think this is the worst kind of abuse, which is why it has stuck in my mind, and wondered if any one else remembered it?
 
Does anyone have any footage of this because, to be honest, I didn't know anything about this until you mentioned it.
 
Thanks but I mean the Atlanta footage
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I have never heard of the incident in Atlanta.
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I do remember this - the horse was no where near as lame as Le S. we also live in a society which is much more horse welfare aware. Charlotte was a much better rider than AT.
 
I think you are right - the age of the internet video brings such tragic incidents to a much wider audience. When I heard accounts of the AT incident, I thought at first that people were exaggerating and over-reacting. Having seen the video with my own eyes, however, I had a totally different viewpoint. The saying is that a picture is worth a thousand words, and the same is true of the internet video.

Without having seen the CB incident myself, however, I am unable to comment on that one.

I do sincerely hope that the fact that such incidents will in future get a wide audience via the internet will ensure that fewer riders will make similar 'mistakes'.
 
I don't think there will be any footage anywhere unless someone has a dusty old video lurking somewhere, and it was all kept pretty quiet. I just happen to remember it as it really saddened me at the time, that the chance of a medal was worth more to someone than their horse's welfare. Particularly poignant in view of who she was married to. I also knew someone who was working for the Bathes at the time. I think they tried to make out the horse had just tweaked something but I believe the SDFT / DDFT or suspensory ligament was ruptured and the horse did not recover.
 
Strange isnt it how lightly she got off?? i do think its bang out of order and she should not be at the olympics, just read this article about her.....
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Amy Tryon: One of the best in equestrian sports

Amy Tryon with Poggio II deserve a gold medal in the Beijing Olympics 2008 for their performance and what they have had to do, to go to the Olympics. Amy Tryon also deserves a gold medal for being a kind and decent human being..

If she is one of the best I would hate to see the worst??
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ETA link to article http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=138792
 
yes, i remember it well, it wasn't as lame as Le Samurai, but it wasn't right. the horse was The Cool Customer and he did not have to be pts because of the incident, although iirc he never evented again. he'd done a tendon i believe, and was retired.
slight difference (very very slight) was that she was in a team position, not like AT at Kentucky where there was no pressure at all to complete for the team.
still inexcusable though, agreed. i was amazed there wasn't a fuss made.
but i'm amazed there isn't a fuss being made about Megan Jones yesterday - she clearly hits that amazing generous horse twice AFTER the last xc fence. this is a definite contravention of FEI rules. no-one seems to be saying anything about it though...
 
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but i'm amazed there isn't a fuss being made about Megan Jones yesterday - she clearly hits that amazing generous horse twice AFTER the last xc fence. this is a definite contravention of FEI rules. no-one seems to be saying anything about it though

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Depending on what footage people saw, not everyone will have seen this though. I saw three different versions of cross country highlights yesterday. Only one showed Megan hitting the horse - so possibly not seen by a wide audience??

Do you think she 'hit' the horse or 'tapped' it?? It looked like two taps to me - one on the backside and another on the neck. I'm not trying to excuse it - but perhaps she's not quite the villain??
 
I dare say someone somewhere will have VHS of the Atlanta Olympics. I still have a tape of the World Championships in Gawler (Aus) from the 80s where Kinvarra belts his head hard at a bounce fence and the rider kept going, even though [she said afterwards] the horse was clearly wrong, and worse, there was blood splattering all over the rider's leg. The horse was seen at the finish with blood all over it's muzzle, chest, and front legs, and a groom trying to clean it up ...

There may not have been an internet, but there were magazines and I remember reading one letter from an infuriated viewer about it ...
 
I think the OP makes a very valid point though - there are other examples of very high profile riders riding irresponsibly (famous one at a World Championship where a rider rode a horse almost to a standstill on xc and his team was lauded for getting the horse into the sj the next day) and yet it doesn't seem to follow them in the same way. Obviously this is largely because of television/internet access and changing attitudes (not to long ago horses were celebrated for "fighting well" . . .) but - not to excuse ANYONE'S behaviour - does that really make the "crime" any worse?

I think it must be very tough to ride at that level now. If you don't try hard enough you're letting the team down, if you try too hard you're reckless and not putting your horse first. Of course it's not so simple as that but the legions of armchair critics who know they would behave differently in the situation are legion and vocal now.

And before you all jump on me, I'm NOT talking about AT specifically or in any way excusing the decision she made, just pointing out that seeing something may make it a rallying point but it doesn't necessarily make it worse than things you don't see. People have a funny way of ignoring bad news they don't want to hear and concentrating on it when they do.

As to MJ, whether she "tapped" or hit, the rules seem very clear and I'm surprised, given the focus on horse welfare, no one has stood on principle. Even if you argue she didn't hurt the horse she still broke the rules (which, technically, neither AN or even AT did). Interesting and goes to prove the point it's the result people concentrate on, however near the miss or questionable the decision.
 
Ezme, Poggio won't jump today, fall = elimination now, under new rules.
AmyMay, it was in the head-on shot over the finish which was on BBCi, and i am 99.9% sure she hit it, didn't tap it. and, as TarrSteps says, it doesn't matter either way, either is a direct violation of the FEI rule which clearly states that the whip must not be used on the horse after the last xc fence.
compared to Ingrid Klimke, who patted her horse all the way to the line, and many others who showed their appreciation of their mounts, it was a disgusting display imho. How dare she hit that horse that had just really put itself out for her. it wasn't even as if it had jumped the last fence badly (which would be a slight excuse perhaps), it had jumped it well. i'm still fuming about this, as you can tell!
 
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but i'm amazed there isn't a fuss being made about Megan Jones yesterday - she clearly hits that amazing generous horse twice AFTER the last xc fence. this is a definite contravention of FEI rules. no-one seems to be saying anything about it though

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Depending on what footage people saw, not everyone will have seen this though. I saw three different versions of cross country highlights yesterday. Only one showed Megan hitting the horse - so possibly not seen by a wide audience??

Do you think she 'hit' the horse or 'tapped' it?? It looked like two taps to me - one on the backside and another on the neck. I'm not trying to excuse it - but perhaps she's not quite the villain??

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Indeed, AmyMay, I wouldnt say she 'hit' it at all
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I purposefully watched a replay to see exactly where she had hit the horse after reading on here about her unnacceptable behaviour, and found myself thinking, 'is that it!?'
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She gave him two taps behind the saddle when he scrambled over a fence somewhere halfway around the course - a reminder, IMO - then after the final fence she gave him two taps, one behind, one in front. She then rode to the finish one handed, whip in the same hand as her reins - hardly the body language of one who is beating her horse
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If that is classed as merciless beating of a tired horse, I dread to think what some people here think of jockeys riding a finish in a race....I'm sure Comply Or Die received a fair few whacks on the run in, and I'll bet he was just as tired as those Olympic horses yesterday....
 
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I think AT did hurt Pogioii, it'd be interesting to see himtoday but watching him walk away later he was definatly not a happy bunny, moving very oddly

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Perhaps - I'm not arguing with you. I'm just saying is it only whether or not the horse gets hurt that necessitates sanction? So if anyone else's horse doesn't pass today is that person possibly guilty of uncaring riding because a horse left long and caught a fence or got deep and smacked itself on the way up? Where is the "these things happen" line?

Again NOT relevant to the original AT fiasco - that was quite obvious and devoid of defence. But there were quite a few people - as ever on xc - who made questionable decisions or simply had bad luck which may or may not have resulted in a horse getting hurt. Is it only the horse getting hurt that makes it "wrong"?

Btw, I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me on here. Just pointing out eventing is a fast, dangerous, fraught sport. It's fundamentally unsafe no matter what precautions we take, whether we want to admit it or not. And people, especially people under pressure, make mistakes and get it wrong. Sometimes they get away with it, sometimes not. And when they don't sometimes the horse pays most of all. Again, NOT the same as AT - her "crime" was not pulling up after the fact. But it is interesting how many "close calls" (to be honest, more at lower levels than at the Olympics) are laughed off and even cheered when really the only line between success and disaster at that point is dumb luck.
 
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She gave him two taps behind the saddle when he scrambled over a fence somewhere halfway around the course - a reminder, IMO - then after the final fence she gave him two taps, one behind, one in front. She then rode to the finish one handed, whip in the same hand as her reins - hardly the body language of one who is beating her horse
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If that is classed as merciless beating of a tired horse, I dread to think what some people here think of jockeys riding a finish in a race....I'm sure Comply Or Die received a fair few whacks on the run in, and I'll bet he was just as tired as those Olympic horses yesterday....

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No, the point is there is a RULE against it and she broke it. Of course the rule is there to prevent/censure people for beating a tired horse and I don't think she was doing that - I think she got over excited to see the finish. BUT it's still a rule, it still exists for a reason. And it's the Olympics. My point is not about her motivation or whether she did something wrong, just that she actually broke a rule, on international television if you want to use that as a factor, designed to protect horse welfare. But no one seems to see a problem because the nothing bad happened. Obviously, if challenged, she could defend herself - rightly - on all those grounds. But why, with all the fuss about so many other instances of silly behaviour, is breaking and actual rule seen as okay?

There are very strict rules governing when and how often jockey can use the whip now. If they break them they can and will be censured, with everything from fines to disqualification. At the very least they will be hauled up to explain themselves and given a warning. (Which may in fact happen in MJs case but clearly transparency is an issue these days.)

Look at the massive fuss at NT after his sj round at Badminton, virtually calling him a horse abuser, for something that might be over excited and silly but is still not against the rules. It can't be that people don't care . . .
 
Yes I agree with the principle that there is a rule and it was broken. And I also agree that in the spirit of appreciating what your horse has done for you Megan was absolutely wrong to pick up her stick again after the last fence.
 
TarrSteps has said exactly what I was going to say. I never said she beat her horse mercilessly (thanks for that, MizElz), but I did say that she broke a clear rule (one that is there for a very good reason imho) on the international stage with the world watching. her horse absolutely did not deserve it, either.
i didn't say a word about her hitting her horse during her round, that might well have been justified, and was allowed in the rules, so i have no problem with it.
 
I suspect that the reason there isn't more fuss, is that most of us are not actually aware of the rules. We're just interested onlookers. I used to know the ins and outs of eventing when I was a youngun, but then worked for donkeys years in dressage and have now been a happy hacker and pony club mum for more donkeys years! And in all those donkeys years, I have seldom been more condescended to than in the last couple of days LOL.

There do seem to be a few people on here - and I am not including Tarrsteps whose point is well made - who go into full on 'OMG any fool knows that' mode, when someone makes a comment or asks a question which doesn't meet their high standards of insdie information. Most of which are patently fake.

The question, it appears to me, is not why is there not so much fuss on here, as much as, why have the ground jury taken no action? And, interestingly, why has no other team raised an objection?
As TarrSteps says, rules is rules, even if nothing bad happened. Remembering the redistributing of the medals last time, can I ask (without the whole 'Oh Cindypops and Toddypoos told me that yonkos ago' rubbish if at all possible) is there a time limit on objections? Well I mean obviously there must be, but what is it? Could some intrepid team member be reading TarrSteps words even as we speak, and rushing to lodge a complaint?!!!
 
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TarrSteps has said exactly what I was going to say. I never said she beat her horse mercilessly (thanks for that, MizElz), but I did say that she broke a clear rule (one that is there for a very good reason imho) on the international stage with the world watching. her horse absolutely did not deserve it, either.
i didn't say a word about her hitting her horse during her round, that might well have been justified, and was allowed in the rules, so i have no problem with it.

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Sorry, Kerilli, if my comment seemed aimed at you directly - I can see on re-reading that it might appear that way. In actual fact, it was yesterday morning that I thought people were going over the top about her 'beating' the horse - cannot remember which thread, there have been so many Olympic ones!
I agree with you, and with AmyMay and TarrSteps, that if she broke a rule, then that is a whole different story - I was not aware of any such rule before reading this thread.
 
okay, sorry, as far as i was aware i was the first to be a bit riled by it, so i thought your comment was aimed at me. i never said she beat the horse, but she shouldn't have hit it after the last fence, either a tap or a smack, end of.
i hope someone does take it up, it was a clear violation of the rule and not the image of our sport that we want the world to see.
 
I didn't mean see pogioii jump today but it'd be interested to see him trot up (which i know he won't do but it's something i'd like to see)

As for using the whip after the last fence i think it was a tap but a tap and a hit are purely subjective terms but if its a rule that USE os the whip is not allowed i suspect she will be appropriatly fined.

As for Amy Tyron I think enough has been said by me and others now, who i would like to hear on the subject is Capt Mark Phillips as american cheif de equip he made the decision to bring her, i wonder what he thinks of her conduct.
 
Is it bad that I laughed out loud when AT fell off!

Also years ago when I worked for an Olympic dressage rider a young girl came for training with a Horse that was called 'The Cool Customer' I assumed at the time he was Charlotte Bathe's old horse as he was very good and quite old.
Is it possible he was the same horse then?
 
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