Anger Managment

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lalord1

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I have owned my thoroughbred gelding for just over half a year and never had any major problems with him until recently.

Previously; He was a race horse (not a very good one I understand!!) until he was 10. I belive he wasn't treated very well and was locked up in a stable for most of his days. He came to my riding school having been re-trained and as an excellent dressage and show jumping prospect. They decided to sell him to someone who would have the time to persue his talent and take him to competitions etc. I wasn't looking for a new horse (i already have two) but after negotiation he was sold to me and my sister.

At first; We were told never to keep him in a stable as he turns very vicious, so even now in Winter, he lives outside. He was very skinny when we got him, and the riding school had tried everything to get weight on but never managed. HE was bullied by other horses and at first one of mine bullied him too but that settled down after a few weeks. The only problem we had was getting him in the trailer, but that also settled after a while, and when we do his girth up he pulled horrbile faces, but never bit or kicked out.

Recently; He put the weight on after using a conditioning mix and looks lovely, no ribs visible anymore and many people have commented on how healthy he looks. About two weeks ago my sister was taking him to her lesson and he wouldnt go in the trailer. After a while she let him have his own way and put him back in the field. It is since then I think that problems have come about. He is fine to catch but he just stands dead still and wont walk forward out of the field anymore, it takes about half an hour and a few times he's tunred and bolted off. When you do take him in to groom him, he has started trying to bite, kick out and yesterday and today literally lunged at myself and my sister. He rears and kicks out and to be quite honest I am scared sh*tless. We used a salt lick to keep him occupied for a while to groom him but that no longer works. Also, so one of us can get a hold of his head, we sometimes use polos or treats so that he wont bite. Today, I went to top up the haylaige and he ran after me and lunged at me, this has NEVER happened before.

I know that he should have never been able to get his own way in the first place and feeding him treats when he is being bad is making it 100x worse but I honestly don't know how else to prevent him from biting me, which he has managed a few times already. Now, you can't catch him as he just runs after you and lunges at you with the most horrible face.

I don't want to give up on him as he is wonderful to ride and at shows he always puts on his best and comes 1st and I think it would be such a waste to give up on him.
 
Bit confused as you said he's fine to catch, but you also said you can't catch him. Anyway, just a couple of suggestions. I would be using a Monty Roberts Dually headcollar on him which will give you a lot more control. I'm using it on my girl atm as she was a bit dangerous recently. You can also practice trailer loading with this, but when he stops or reverses, back him up rather than pull. Monty and Kelly use this see-saw action to get the horse to want to get on the trailer in the end.

I would also use a calmer like NAF Magic which is very effective and may improve his temper.
 
Take him off conditioning mix straight away! My TB was on build up cubes and although they're apparently 'non heating' they do give them a hell of alot more energy and I got bronced off in a field!

I'm going through different issues with Ty but TB's really do seem to take the pee once they know that they have the upper hand.

You obviously need to tie him up when grooming. Are you tieing him up inside or outside? I was always told that alot of ex racers are handled inside their box only so usually they are better behaved in there!

I reckon Vic will have some good ideas......let us know how you get on. xx
 
If you have only recently changed his feed to include a conditioning mix, and him having the mix coincides with his change of temperment, I would take him off it. I would probably check teeth, back & tack to check that he isn't in any pain (my mare started being bolshy to lead and rearing, when her back hurt). Once you've rule that out, some join-up may help (do you have anyone experienced to help you?).
 
Could it be that now his condition has improved he is feeling well so his true nature is comng out?

You mention he was vicious in the stable due to his past, maybe if his condition has been poor and ribby until recently then his true personality hasnt been showing, many out of condition 'quiet' horses are anything but quiet when they are back in good health.

Yes your sister shouldnt have let him get his own way regarding loading, but that one thing wont have triggered all this.

Have you had his back, teeth etc checked incase he is in pain somewhere?

And yes sadly you are making it worse, by plying him with mints and treats when he is nasty you are teaching him to bite and be dangerous.

I woudl get him checked out health wise first to rule that out, and then if he is fine you need to address your handling issues.
If he senses you are scared he will play on that, and is by the sounds of it.
 
He is not on conditioning mix anymore, we stopped that about a month ago, and he is back onto cool mix which I used for him before and with my other horses.

I do tie him up when he is being groomed, although he has a unique ability to be able to kick you from any and all angles, and he also sometimes pulles back and is able to break the either lead-rope or the twine he is tied onto.

Sorry for my confusing and LONG essay. He was easy to catch, even when his bad behaviour started he was easy to catch, just when he was inclosed in the grooming area, tied up or not, was when he was bad. It's just the past two days he has been hard to catch just because you can't go near him without him lunging at you.

I may try him in the stable if I can manage to catch him fine enough but he has always hated the stable and the only time he was ever nasty before this all happened was in the stable.
 
Can you not tie him up outside?

Personally I'd put him on pony nuts as they really are non heating! Although if he was ok on mix before then it's probably not that.

One other thing to bare in mind is that the seasons have changed. Ty switched the minute it got cold, and like you I've had him since the summer.

It's weird but they say you never know a horse until you've had him through the winter.....
 
Thank you for all your helpful replies everyone. I personally think it has just been over-use of treats and him getting his own way that has lead to this, and I am just trying to figure out how to show him who is boss again.

Health-wise he was fully vetted before I got him, around 6moths ago and it did show some back problems which he may of had in the past. However, we got a special saddle fitter to help find him a saddle so that his back should no longer cause any problems.

The feed he is on now was what he had always been on when I got him, aside from a month or so when conditioning mix was used to help build him up.
 
Just a few suggestions, I'm not an expert! Do you have a small paddock where he could go out on his own? (sounds like he is upset by being bullied!) and where you could a) easily catch him from and b)spend some time with him.

Also he sounds like he feels he has gone up in the pecking order, try to be firm (although it must be terrifying!) and act as if you are in control at all times, even if you feel you aren't.

Definately get teeth, back, saddle checked out. Feed high fibre feed (the dengie helpline is excellent) and work with him at least once, preferably twice a day. Working on simple things like leading (MR dually halter as someone has already said) will show that you are boss.

No treats - horses do not see food as a reward, just as something to grab for and that those lower in the pecking order will give up. Why not tie up with a haynet instead?

Good luck and welcome to the forum.
 
I do tie him up outside. I try to use to stable very rarely with him. The seasonal idea could be a possibility but to be honest the weather right now in Scotland has been this way since October.

I do think it may be a trust issue, so join-up and all that monty roberts horse whispering stuff which I have books on will probably be needed to be dusted off and read for a bit of inspiration..
 
To 'Poppypony', your advice is really helpful and I will definately be using it tomorrow.
I understand he was bullied, even by a shetland, at one point but now he is the boss in the field and he lashes out and bites my other horses, not seriously, but this has been the case after about a month of his coming so I am not too concerned about that, it is just nature.
Tying him up with a haynet I will 100% try. My farrier did this thing where when another of my horses was anughty he 'yanked' the leadrope/bridle down and i did that with Eric a few days ago and I feel this really worked to an extent but I did it again yesterday and it had the wrong reaction..!!
 
I think you need to inlist some knowledgable people. TBH, I probably would have thrown in the towel with Ty by now if I didn't have the support that I have.

If you want to PM me feel free - seems like we have horses in really similar situations - mine looked like a rescue horse when I got him..... x
 
Stimpy, thank you very much for the advice it definately seems like we have somewhat similar situations and tomorrow I will try the advice people have given me and then get back to everyone to tell them how it's been.
 
I really feel for you, i have been in exactly the same position with my monster! With him it was the Haylage and food, that sent him really aggressive, he was turned out 24/7 at the time, being fed too much and had hurt his leg...result = unhappy horse associating us with pain (cleaning his cut) He used to bolt full pelt at me ears back turn and kick at me and the oldie!!

Started not giving him any food, (just the grass in the field) ignoring him completely, turning away everytime he looked up and if he bolshed at me, making myself bigger than him, stand tall, arms and legs out like you are doing a star jump and eye ball them.....this is horse language for back completely off!!

Square up to him, it is terrifing, are there any large men about who can help you, my OH was great handling him as is 6ft 4, convinced this helped too!

I also had one of the Recommended Associates out from Kelly Marks, (monty roberts) who showed us ground work exercises and have to say he is turning into a lovely animal now (can sit on the stable floor with him laid down stroking his head!) Complete transformation!!

Good luck, hope all goes well and hang in there, he will change back, just keep eliminating till you find the root cause and put him back in his place. You have to be boss and i am sure you will.
 
One tip I thought of, and you probably already do it, but when you have him tied up, instead of tying him up normally, use a long lunge line from his headcollar through the ring. This way if he pulls he can't break free, and you are still in control of him. Plus the longer length means you can stand further away from him without the fear of him kicking you.

I like theidea of just ignoring him, turning him away and having nothing to do with him for a few days. It does sound like he feels he's higher up the hierarchy than you.

Good luck with him, and keep us posted as to how you get on.
 
What do you do when he tries to kick or bite you? That sort of behaviour must be stopped immediately. Growling or a quick slap usually does the trick.

When he plants his feet, position yourself beside and slightly behind him (level with roughly the back legs but not within kicking distance) and drive him forward. You can use the end of the lead rope to flick him lightly if he doesn't respond to you.

In regards to charging at you, Sinbad used to do this. Whenever he did, I 'became really large' with my body language, growled and took a few aggressive steps towards him. This stopped him within weeks, now he's great to approach, catch and lunge. It is scary at first but it really worked for me.

Definitely get teeth and back checked as others have already said. Lots of groundwork to reestablish who's boss in your relationship. It sounds as though now that he's top in the paddock, he thinks he rules the roost in all aspects of life. Make sure he goes away from you rather than you getting out of his way, he must wait for food (no treats), move any part of his body when you tell him to etc...
 
I know that there are plenty of people on here who will disagree with me and it might not be your cup of tea but I would be getting an equine behaviourist in to help you.

There is likely to be a common sense solution to your problem but if you are as scared as you describe then you aren't going to be able to think rationally when he is going for you. Having somebody in should help you to think about the problem objectively.

Depending on where you live and who is available in your area I would try getting a freelance instructor to come and do a groundwork lesson with you or try someone from www.montyroberts.co.uk I used one of their recommended Associates and it was a real turning point in my relationship with my horse.

Feel free to pm me if you want to know anything about the monty roberts experience

Whatever route you decide to go down don't feel that you are alone and don't leave the problem until something serious happens. Bite the bullet and ask someone in for help. You wouldn't feel embarrassed about having a riding lesson so I see no reason why some people look down on others when they choose to have groundwork lessons
 
I completely agree with DWI, the RA gave us a ground work lesson and that was definately our turning point, he had the confidence to pick up his back legs, even if he kicked and waved them about he would keep hold of him..where as i used to let them go....now i keep hold of them, but to be honest he only does it now when he remembers!!

All you need is help to get your confidence back and really show him who is boss again.
 
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