Another bargy horse thread - sorry

[goodtimes]

My new horse can be a bit of a bugger when I enter his stable. Not always, but sometimes.

I think he may have been hit in the stable in the past, as when I fling his hay net up he has a panic and throws his head up, he doesnt like strangers in his stable either - so I have to do it gently and calmy.

He doesn't quite get 'back' either. I open the door and he does try to barge out. Again, not always, but sometimes. He just seems to have grumpy days occasionally - no idea why.

I have done a lot of ground work with him to get him to back up - which is working fine. It just seems to be in the stable that he doesn't want to or doesnt understand he has to back up first.

A poke in the chest winds him up. Making myself big and looking him in the eye really winds him up too.

The work I have done on the ground out the stable he wears a head collar - he is easy to handle with a head collar.

For example - tonight I asked him to go back before I opened the door - he stretched his head over the door - ears back etc and simple would not back up.

He did eventually back up a couple of steps so |I entered the stable with the hay net and he barged at me.

I put head collar on. told him to back up which he did beautifully and waited untill I tied net up and took halter off - he then was calm and ate his hay.

I'm sorry for waffling - what I am asking is...how can I get him to back up in the stable without a head collar on calmly - without waving anything at him or giving his a smack or a slap. Remember he has been abused in the stable before I got him so everything must be quite and calm otherwise he shouts back.

Thanks.

 

[goodtimes]

Bump

 

[LouS]

You can't let him be aggressive towards you just because he's been abused. I take a leadrope and swing it in front of me, they can either stand there and be irritated by it or they can go to the back of the box, their choice. They soon learn to move straight back as you open the door. I find a rope much more effective than just pushing etc.

 

[taceann]

What about some groundwork outside, maybe clicker training ?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I like the swinging lead-rope idea
BUT, if you are trying to gain this horse's confidence and flinging his haynet up sometimes causes him to panic, I'd make sure that the net is put up before he comes in. Let him get to know and trust you before you introduce activities which you know have the potential to upset him.

 

[emma.is]

Can't help with the bargy but might be able to help with why he does it with the headcoller on.

My boy is a beautiful lunger and has wonderful inhand manners, but only with a bit between his teeth. If I lunge or lead in a headcoller he's very naughty.

I lunge him in a bridle with a headcoller over and the line attached to the heacoller because I don't like the idea of hauling on one side of his mouth all the time.

I think that when he has a bit in he knows he has to behave because he is 'working' similar to when a guide dog has it's harness on.

Maybe your horse is like that? He knows he has to behave in a headcoller.

 

[trojanpony]

IMO you need to give enough pressure that he can't ignore you but not so much that you "wind him up" add you say. There is no point getting into a with half a ton of horse but equally he must know he had to do as asked. Ask yourself have you really got him doing everything instantly and politely in your groundwork out could it really be on his terms? Does he snap or move into you and get you to move away?

 

[D66]

I push with my hand on the horses chest and gently but firmly tread on his hoof, if he doesn't shift straight away move your foot to the coronet band. Let him move away from the irritation. If you are discreet he won't even know it's you doing it.

 

[goodtimes]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, he really is very repectful with the head collar on. He wasn't at first, but months of ground work with the headcollar have worked wonders.

In the stable is respectful with the headcollar on too. It just seems to be when I first walk in and he is 'free' in his own space.

He will happily stand at the door so I can put the head collar on - then I can ask him to back up - which he does beautifully - but I would like him to do it when I ask -head collar or not!

 

[Joeyjojo]

I don't profess to be an expert, but am working on my mares manners in the stable so am doing a similar thing. Can you try groundwork in the stable? With head collar first then without?

Also my old gelding used to barge out of his stable, over time I taught him to move to the back of his stable before I went in by saying back. He knew he'd never get his tea/haynet etc until he'd behaved! With him it just took time etc, he was so much better once he settled at the yard too. Stopped behaving like an irritating loon!!

How long have you had your boy?

 

[Ladyinred]

You have to work with the horse you have in front of you today. Obviously don't do things that trigger his bad memories, like the haynet thing, but remember that he *was* abused and is not now abused. It's very easy to get into a mindset of *poor abused horse* and never get him past that point. Be firm and consistent, but very fair.. ie, don't ask him to back up one day but not the next and don't push his boundaries too fast or too far beyond what he can initially accept.

Good luck. It can be done and I am sure that if you have taken the trouble to ask then you will do your best for your boy.

 

[tallyho!]

Have you tied him up in the stable?

I know you say he is bargy, but try and get a headcollar on him and tie him in the stable while you do your duties. That way he will learn that people coming in and out of his space is ok. Give him plenty of encouragement and speak to him while you do things and give him rubs.

If he won't back up for psychological reasons, don't force him, you just have to try another tactic.

 

[canteron]

I had a bargy girl, who had had a pretty rough start to life. I have to say the most important thing was just time, it was interlinked with all the other confidence problems and slowly they have been ironed out.

Everything you are doing sounds correct, but I think if I was there again I would definitely try Clicker Training for this. It gives you a chance to bond, a reason to spend time with your horse in the stable and gives the horse something else to think about (which is generally quite calming). As you clearly have a horse who is presenting challenges, it will help your timing with everything else you do with him and help with all aspects of training (it teaches you about positive reinforcement, timing and breaking all things down into little chunks that the horse can take on board).

Alexander Kurkland has done a great book, or if you search on here or youtube there is heaps of information.

Give it a go, its fun!!!

 

[Ladyinred]

I had a bargy girl, who had had a pretty rough start to life. I have to say the most important thing was just time, it was interlinked with all the other confidence problems and slowly they have been ironed out.

Everything you are doing sounds correct, but I think if I was there again I would definitely try Clicker Training for this. It gives you a chance to bond, a reason to spend time with your horse in the stable and gives the horse something else to think about (which is generally quite calming). As you clearly have a horse who is presenting challenges, it will help your timing with everything else you do with him and help with all aspects of training (it teaches you about positive reinforcement, timing and breaking all things down into little chunks that the horse can take on board).

Alexander Kurkland has done a great book, or if you search on here or youtube there is heaps of information.

Give it a go, its fun!!!

^^^ good advice. And don't be misled into thinking clicker training is all about stuffing your horse with treats! It isn't.

 

[Persephone]

I would have a rail fitted inside the stable door, just for safety. You can duck under, he has to stop.

Can you put up the haynet before he goes in?

 

[goodtimes]

Thanks again for all your advice - your right in that I do sometimes think 'poor abused horse' and do have to remind myself that this big horse could kill he if he wanted to - abused in the past or not.

I wish I could show you what he was like when he first came home to what he is like now - he really has come on so much.

Thanks again.

 

[noblesteed]

Mine can be bargy and will push back and resist pressure if he is feeling threatened, though he would never hurt you.

I find waving the leadrope at him is very effective.

 

[ShadowFlame]

When he does oblige and back up, give him a treat? My boy only barged on me once, that was as I was taking his feed into his stable. Feed bucket was left on the side for a good 10mins, and was only given to him once he backed up nicely. I started giving him a treat everytime he backed up well, he now does it automatically.