Another dog fight :(

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soot

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Seems like once a year, almost to the day, this happens to me.

My dog is always on lead as her recall is not perfect and she can be unpredictable.
99.9% of the time she loves other dogs and I can let her off lead to play on open fields, etc. But that 0.01% surfaces sometimes. She's a rescue and we know that she'd had some issues with staffies before we got her, but neither seen any negative behaviour specifically towards that breed and she has many staffie friends.

Today walked home on a narrow footpath - on lead. Staffie runs up to us, hackles raised, they sniff. The other dog growls and that's all it took. My dog was on it in a second, shaking and snarling and it was horrid. OH was holding lead and other owner came running. Nothing we could do, they were completely locked. We thought my dog had the other one's eye as couldn't see its face :( . Finally, I managed to physically pry my dog's jaw open and OH pulled her away. Other dog wanted to pounce back into the fray but luckily his owner had him collared by then.

Thankfully it turned out my dog had clamped onto skin of the face not the eye and they were both OK, not much blood and nothing vital damaged. Clamping seems to be my dog's strategy - once she has that grip she won't let go for anything. That has happened once before and last time she clamped on an ear (but didn't tear it, which she easily could). The real problem is she's getting more and more nervous (and so am I!) of other large dogs running at us while she is walking on lead and if they show any hint of aggression she goes mental and clamps onto something and then that's it, nothing will budge her.

Feel like an idiot for not being able to prevent it. Also angry because my dog was on lead and the other came running up to us growling ... also terrified as if I was on my own I'm not sure what I would have done, and worst of all it makes me scared to walk her on my own because if a dog runs up like that I know I will get anxious and my dog will probably feel like she needs to defend us both. I don't feel at fault as other dog started it, but I do feel terrible as was clear my dog was willing to fight. Emotionally I tend to feel at fault for every problem in the world so I still feel terribly guilty that she almost got his eye :(

Don't know why I made this post. Bit of an emotional release I think. Why can't my dog just be lovely to ALL other dogs .... SAD!!

Should say, other owner was fine, just said "dogs, eh" and let his run on down the footpath. I was shaking like a leaf but maybe his dog has done it before. It's the third time it's happened to me and last time I was crossing a busy road with a well behaved heel, when a ****ing rottweiler shot out of an open door and attacked and left puncture all down my dog's chest and neck. Can't win!
 
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Sorry to hear this happened. I think in your shoes for peace of mind id probably muzzle my dog just so you feel more confident that if on your own your dog can't clamp down.
Obviously if another dog attacks yours they won't be able to fight back but i would think it worth while as i too would be nervous of what would happen if Im alone
 
i have a westie like this.it goes out in a muzzle all the time and on the lead only and i think you should do this with yours.it could of been a child your dog locks onto next time.sorry but be responsible muzzle and keep on lead in furure.
 
OP dont feel bad, I bet most dogs would have acted this way defending themselves. You say it happens about once a year and I would be interested to hear about these previous attacks. You were on a narrow path and your dog was on a lead and this dog came bounding up to yours growling, just think if you had a little dog it could have been a sad outcome. Sadly there are more idiots out there than responsible owners and you just have to try and find somewhere else to walk. I wouldnt muzzle your dog, he only defends himself and as he isnt instigating the fights I would leave it off, it might even make your dog worse. Carry a stick in future and if a dog comes running towards you block it by putting yourself in front of your dog and shout at the other dog to go away.
 
When we first got her and she was an unknown quantity she went out in a muzzle -- it might be a good idea for my peace of mind. I don't want to turn my own fear into something it never needed to be. So a muzzle would give me confidence when other dogs run at us. I just wish they wouldn't run at us, when we're on lead and they're not. It doesn't seem fair!

I'm not too worried about her not being able to defend herself as she doesn't anyway. Just clamps and stays like that while the other dog repeatedly attacks (hence, last year in the awful rottweiler incident, the other dog walked away with a sore ear with my dog needed the vet for a savaged chest) ...

Fwiw I doubt she would clamp onto a child - humans could poke her to death and she'd never snap at them (not that I'm being blase, please understand - I wouldn't set her free to run riot in a playground and of course never say never - but it would be a very improbably scenario not least because there are precious few children anywhere near us).
 
Dobiegirl said:
OP dont feel bad, I bet most dogs would have acted this way defending themselves. You say it happens about once a year and I would be interested to hear about these previous attacks. You were on a narrow path and your dog was on a lead and this dog came bounding up to yours growling, just think if you had a little dog it could have been a sad outcome. Sadly there are more idiots out there than responsible owners and you just have to try and find somewhere else to walk. I wouldnt muzzle your dog, he only defends himself and as he isnt instigating the fights I would leave it off, it might even make your dog worse. Carry a stick in future and if a dog comes running towards you block it by putting yourself in front of your dog and shout at the other dog to go away.
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Thanks for your post - a lot to think about! I think I feel bad because I'm quite shaken by the experience!

Here's the "attack" history (clearly, we look attackable!)

1st incident was a rottieXdobe. It was another bitch. My dog was on a long line in an open field, sniffing at rabbit hole. Other dog came galumping up, they sniffed and the other dog went crazy and tried to flip my girl onto her back but that back fired and they started fighting. My dog clamped onto a leg and wouldn't let go while the other dog tore into her neck and face. They did both suddenly let go of their own accord and the other dog ran off and my dog wanted to go the opposite direction. Never saw the owner of that one. Mine was bleeding all over not sure about the other.

2nd incident was a labrador X collie. I always make my dog sit on narrow paths so others can get past. This other dog ran past (off lead) and then suddenly turned round and growled and Bam-fight. Here too they suddenly separated (no clamp!) when the other owner came running. He screamed and shouted at me, but thankfully their dog wasn't bleeding so that was that. No wounds on either dog that time.

Last year the Rottweiler incident I mentioned previously

And now this! -- Always in December/January, like clockwork!

... The irony is my dog will even let other dogs in the house (as evidence by the neighbour's dog burrowing under the fence and coming in through the back door and stealing her toys!) and will happily play with them in the garden and even share her treats. She's not precious in that respect and if it weren't for these little incidents I would think she was the sweetest. But it's always at the back of my mind now. I don't trust any other dog we meet and that's a sad thing.
 
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Dogs that are dog aggressive are not child killers, there is no connection between the two. OP I think you would benefit from a good training class, it will do wonders for your confidence.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Dogs that are dog aggressive are not child killers, there is no connection between the two. OP I think you would benefit from a good training class, it will do wonders for your confidence.
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Yes!!

(we used to have one, but our trainer died (no joke) and despite calling a few places we never got back into it). I should take this as the necessary incentive to get back to it. She's so clever as well, she loves her training (but more as tricks than as social education, which is what we all need probably)
 
Personally I would muzzle your dog Soot, not because I think it was your dogs fault in any way but to protect your dog from other people and their dogs! There is always the chance your dog may get into a fight like she did today and be seriously injured :(

I now muzzle my greyhound boy even when he is on the lead, following a recent incident where an idiot let their small terrier run right up to my four greyhounds when they were all on short leads, standing still - it was only my quick reactions that saved the terrier as 100kg plus of greyhounds piled on top of it :o I know perfectly well that, if the terrier had been injured, my dogs would have been blamed even though the terrier's owner was at fault. My greyhound boy is not small dog safe (hence always being muzzled when off a lead previously) but I dont want to risk any chance of him injuring another dog and being blamed for that, whether it was his fault or not, so he will always be muzzled from now on.
 
Always have a plain leather coller on the dog,if she "clamps" on another dog twisting the coller will make her release,hands near teeth are not a good idea.You need to twist hard tourniquet fashion but it always works
 
Everyone here is speaking a lot of sense, OP!

Totally agree - I DON'T think you should blame yourself. A hundred "attacks" (no real damage done, was there?) like this every day and you're probably the only person to be worrying about it afterwards. To many others, dogs are just dogs. This is one of the things they do. It sounds to me like your dog attacks when provoked and you're both getting more worried about it. On the other hand, it also sounds like your dog is "normal" and probably quite scared - she's not savaging the attacking dog is she? Just trying to stop it all from happening.

A muzzle will help your confidence and training with other dogs will help you both (and OH too, don't forget him!).

DON'T get yourself bitten because you feel guilty that your ON LEAD dog is defending herself from an OFF LEAD dog. What's that all about anyway? If your dog is bleeding then the other is way more to blame than you or yours because they shouldn't have been running free in the first place.

You sound like a good person, too sensitive (sorry but man up and tell the other owners to keep their dogs under control, don't feel at fault). Take the steps to ensure your/your dog's safety (from idiots), accept this is unfair and please don't lose any sleep over it!
 
There's an experiment being carried out in some part of the UK, where people tie yellow ribbons to their dogs collar and/or lead, to warn approaching dog owners that the dog could be aggressive. Much like a horse wears a red ribbon on its tail to warn it might kick. Seems like a good idea to me. We shouldn't assume all dogs are happy to have their space invaded...in the meantime, I would keep your dog muzzled for his own safety and your peace of mind!
 
Sounds to me like it could be that your dog isn't aggressive, just worried/defensive, so when a dog attacks or is about to attack, she grabs said dog as if to hold them down to stop them having full freedom of attack, if that makes sense? Like she sees it coming and tries to prevent it?
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...=aps&field-keywords=traffic+light+dog+collars

These collars are FANTASTIC, maybe a caution one on your girl might help others be more aware? I have the green friendly on for my Staffie x Collie as people assume he is a child eating monster because they can see he has Staffie in him :o

Also, it might be useful that when you next encounter an off the lead dog, call ahead to the owner and ask them to put their dog on the lead as you are training your nervous dog. Most responsible owners will oblige, I know I do whenever I'm asked to put my boy back on the lead.

Remember that she will be sensing your nerves, which in turn will make her more and more anxious and she will feel like there is a reason to protect herself.

Attending training classes will help, and the trainer should be able to help you try to re-socialise her too.

Regarding the muzzle, it might be worth putting it on for the next week or so as she will be feeling a bit wary and may snap at other dogs out of fear (not saying she will but it is a possibility.)

Take a deep breath, relax, and try not to worry yourself too much :)

EDIT: just noticed that they have a yellow "nervous" collar too! :)
 
I wouldn't get one of those collars unless its a training one- you are opening yourself up to blame with a caution or no dogs one- its not worth it, for a start the other owner needs to be close enough to see it not the loose dogs. A friendly shout will do you just as good if not better!
However Im tempted with the friendly one for my lab he loves to say hi to people- and if im not concentrating will be with other dog before i can call- unless said dog on lead then he doesn't approach. Clever dog did that training by himself and Im most grateful!
 
As well as a muzzle, I would avoid sitting and waiting for another dog to pass, I would keep moving and try and keep her engaged - making her sit just allows tension to build and makes for a Mexican stand-off - with a spooky horse, you go forwards, forwards, forwards, don't give it time to think, I do similar with reactive dogs.
 
Dizzy Christmas Pud said:
I wouldn't get one of those collars unless its a training one- you are opening yourself up to blame with a caution or no dogs one- its not worth it, for a start the other owner needs to be close enough to see it not the loose dogs. A friendly shout will do you just as good if not better!
However Im tempted with the friendly one for my lab he loves to say hi to people- and if im not concentrating will be with other dog before i can call- unless said dog on lead then he doesn't approach. Clever dog did that training by himself and Im most grateful!
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Yes, I certainly wouldn't use the "no dogs" collar for her as people will get the wrong impression, but I would consider a "nervous" or as DCP said above a "training" collar, just so it makes people aware. Perhaps the "caution" collar would also give the wrong impression, but speaking from experience and testimonials from others, these collars really do work and people do pay attention to them. I am aware that the loose dogs can't read the collars haha, but their owners can.

Fully agree with the keep her moving comments from CC, I know of people who have also found teaching their dogs the "watch" command for these kind of situations. :)
 
soot said:
That has happened once before and last time she clamped on an ear (but didn't tear it, which she easily could). The real problem is she's getting more and more nervous (and so am I!) of other large dogs running at us while she is walking on lead and if they show any hint of aggression she goes mental and clamps onto something and then that's it, nothing will budge her.
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You can "budge" her, by reaching under her collar and clamping her windpipe...she will let go then believe me.

You being nervous will make her worse (and it's understandable you are). Can you get some professional help? Also if we're entirely honest none of us can guarantee our dogs 100% of the time. 99/9% is good enough and I think dogs feel more vulnerable on a lead - cos they are! - and this is nervous aggression. Best of luck xx
 
Dobiegirl said:
OP dont feel bad, I bet most dogs would have acted this way defending themselves. You say it happens about once a year and I would be interested to hear about these previous attacks. You were on a narrow path and your dog was on a lead and this dog came bounding up to yours growling, just think if you had a little dog it could have been a sad outcome. Sadly there are more idiots out there than responsible owners and you just have to try and find somewhere else to walk. I wouldnt muzzle your dog, he only defends himself and as he isnt instigating the fights I would leave it off, it might even make your dog worse. Carry a stick in future and if a dog comes running towards you block it by putting yourself in front of your dog and shout at the other dog to go away.
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This is what I would do too
 
Sounds like you dog can more than stick up for herself when faced with attack, and you have bumped into a fair few ********s on your walks, if you are worried about the damage she can cause then by all means muzzle and as suggested, don't stand and brace yourself just walk on, like today, walk past the staff like it's invisible, this will prevent the staff getting chance to stand up to her in such an aggressive manner and stop your girl having to become so defensive and naturally "defend herself". The staff will no doubt try and follow and keep up but most lose interest if the target is not still for approach. (its easier said than done) when you lack confidence and you feel **** scared.
Like CC said, walk on in military styleee:D and try and get some focus from her, primula is your friend:D
Please don't let it ruin your walks, there are ********s everywhere.

If this where my dog I would not be worried or muzzle (but thats just me). I like a dog than can hold it's own and prefer them in my pack, however im more than happy to step in to defend as well, if im walking a dog that's big enough to defend it's self against most, so for instance my akita. rottie and bully lurcher and hairy lurcher, if a dog does literally jump them, I will try and walk on and let the dog approaching learn a harsh lesson from my dog, if im walking a smaller dog, then im affraid if I fear its in trouble said approaching dog would get a swift caving of the rib cage and whooooo betide the owner when they appear!
I remember one day OH was walking our deerhound and he was a lovely dog, would mix with anything like all my dogs, however he would take no crap, so if he was squared up to, he would go!! and one day a bully x (huge dog) jumped on him, he was on lead and bully type was off and owner not with it at that moment in time and OH booted it so hard!! it was winded and made the most horrendous noise as it backed of (like it had been shot):eek: the woman called him "a cruel ******, I wont even tell you the reply she got;):D. Its all well and good when their dog is not the one getting injured:rolleyes:

In my picci yesterday, if I was worried and OH not there, I may have swiftly walked on and called the dogs with me so them dogs turned tail and returned, but we did not, we where ready;) for the impact, and both of us there to tackle any issue.
 
Walk away from other dogs, be very purposeful and if necessary, tell other owners to stay away from her.

Don't use narrow paths! I stick to open fields with my dog, who is aggressive (not saying yours is) because you can get a good view.

I've taught mine to get very excited about a toy that he has to retrieve and he's only allowed this toy when out. He's also doing gun dog training and learning focus. Waving the toy at him makes him ignore other dogs and he'll follow me rather than go for the dog.
 
Thanks guys, all really helpful!

We have "almost" successfully got her attention on a ball, using the Ryan Phillips "Stop Predatory Dogs" method. Actually, now I think of it, is Ryan Phillips an actor? Could be getting my names muddled up!! But obviously, not yet got her focus complete enough!

I feel a bit better and have already left messages with some dog training classes for some positive socialisation. One training class caught my attention, as they alternate bringing the dog and "training the human handler" during the first few weeks, which all sounds rather perfect for me! So am going to try to get a place on this course, which will hopefully be fun for dog and for me (and OH?) to nip my own confidence wibbles in the bud before they can turn into something!

Thanks for the messages!
 
Just something else to ask as I am not experienced with Westies, but as they are terriers. when yours clamps, does she grab and tug backwards? A long time ago I was taught (for staffords) if twisting the collar does not work, then kicking away the back legs of my dog would make it release as they can't brace themselves. Anyway, lots of good advice and just sorry you have had such a bad experience.
 
No real advice, but please don't feel too bad in yourself. Some people will give you grief when it is their fault and they know it! Ill never forget being on a narrow path and meeting 3 lurchers off lead steaming up to me and my JRT. All 3 dogs jumped on us. One actually had its jaws round my arm when the owner came round the corner and shouted at me, saying it was my fault because my dog barked! He called them off pretty quick and carried on.
 
I know how you feel as my previously friendly Kerry blue terrier has completley changed since being attacked twice now both times by bull mastiffs. She now is always on the defensive and ready for a fight if a dog gets to close to her. I don't help as both times it happened when I was walking her and I have to say I tense up as soon as a dog comes towards us. Both times it happened we were taken by surprise as my dog was on a lead and minding her own business the last time the dog came charging out of its front door at us as we walked past it's house. I also dwell on it too much and when my oh takes her for a walk she's much more chilled and friendly.
 
shannonandtay said:
I know how you feel as my previously friendly Kerry blue terrier has completley changed since being attacked twice now both times by bull mastiffs. She now is always on the defensive and ready for a fight if a dog gets to close to her. I don't help as both times it happened when I was walking her and I have to say I tense up as soon as a dog comes towards us. Both times it happened we were taken by surprise as my dog was on a lead and minding her own business the last time the dog came charging out of its front door at us as we walked past it's house. I also dwell on it too much and when my oh takes her for a walk she's much more chilled and friendly.
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This is exactly how I am turning now!


// Just wanted to update the thread to say we are attending puppy class on Wednesday, as I can categorically state she loves all puppies and will be at her most playful and friendly. The training club decided to meet her in a puppy environment with a view to assessing which group we should really be in. I feel positive having decided to DO something with her / and me, rather than ignore things because of my developing fears .

Thanks for all your advice, so much to think about x
 
can defo feel your pain, our collie x lab was a rescue- he was shut on a balcony for days :( about a month after we got him he was attacked by 2 dogs- he wasnt hurt but he ran off and would not come back for 20 minuets, obviously scared him a lot.

now he is aggressive towards other dogs- mainly fluffy dogs, spaniels, that sort of thing, he absolutely loves greyhounds/lurchers etc, he goes mental when he see's one!

we have tried everything and sometimes I just feel like crying because the amount of time and money we spend on them and they still act like little s****! although I know he is acting out of fear, it makes walks so stressful especially with some of the idiots around!

we muzzled him but just made him worse, I think it was because he felt he could not protect himself. feel like there is nothing left to try, now if I see a dog I put him on the lead, he growls/trys to go for dog and I just drag him past, say "sorry, he's a rescue :rolleyes: " to owner of other dog and carry on...
 
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