Another footy unshod horse-pls critique hooves

PoppyAnderson

PoppyAnderson

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5 yr old mare, had her since she was 2, never been shod. Always coped ok with being unshod but recently really feeling it. Hadn't noticed til I took these pics today but there are a couple of ridges at the top of her feet. Could this be the spring grass coming through? Any thoughts or comments on the state of her feet would be very much welcomed.

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Those ridges would be about 2-3 months old, assuming the hoof grows top to bottom in approx months.

They look in good shape from those pictures. Do you have any sole shots?
 
Well, footy really but was getting increasingly so, until the point of being slightly lame. Hoof boots went back on pronto and she's back to being ok and not at all lame but continues to still be a bit footy.
 
They look like fantastic feet imo. How are you working her normally? With our horses we tend to find in the beginning of being worked on the roads/hard surfaces they are fine barefoot but then go sorefooted. I did alot of reading and found a great article on wild mustangs feet (will dig it out) which explained the hoof as being like our hands. If you work with your hands to begin with they get sore, but if you give them a little bit of rest then continue to work with them they form a callous. Apparently the same applies to the hoof. The one thing i was also told was to ask the farrier not to remove any sole, and a minimal amount of frog as otherwise the callous is removed. So he just files down the walls and bars now. This is just the way we do it now :) Good luck
 
We have a cracking, very well respected farrier and he says she's got great feet. So why so sore? She doesn't do enough work really! Living out full time at the mo. Gets tootled round the block couple of times a week and potters round the school maybe once a week.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
We have a cracking, very well respected farrier and he says she's got great feet. So why so sore? She doesn't do enough work really! Living out full time at the mo. Gets tootled round the block couple of times a week and potters round the school maybe once a week.
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I would guess the problem is that she lives out, has continual access to the spring grass which is growing at the moment and gets very little work. Work is not a bad thing it is a good thing. The more the better. Barefoot horses need lots of work.
I would start by getting her off the grass during the daytime, soaking some hay for her and feeding magnesium plus a suitable supplement or balanced minerals.
I would also check your frogs and make sure you don't have thrush.
 
Thanks so much everyone for your input. Yes, I know work is good. I work away a lot, so am just not there enough to give her the exercise needed. I wish I was. Poor excuse i know but thats the reality of the situation. Is so hard with a good do- er. I did wonder about thrush. I'm pretty certain she doesn't have it but will get some good pics tomorrow of the underside of the foot.
 
OP on the second photo the vertical white stripe and to the right of it show rasp marks. makes me wonder if other event line below the ones that can be seen have been rasped out.
 
Ding ding ding ding ding

Heark, I here the sound of a warning bell.

Your horse is five. This is a very significant age. She has finished growing and her calorie needs have dropped from when she was a youngster.

Many, many young horses who have been happy barefoot all their lives begin to show very early signs of laminitis on spring grass when they mature physically.

That's what I think you have now. Can you get her off grass during the day when the sugars are highest? Most of them manage fine without daytime grass.
 
cptrayes said:
Ding ding ding ding ding

Heark, I here the sound of a warning bell.

Your horse is five. This is a very significant age. She has finished growing and her calorie needs have dropped from when she was a youngster.

Many, many young horses who have been happy barefoot all their lives begin to show very early signs of laminitis on spring grass when they mature physically.

That's what I think you have now. Can you get her off grass during the day when the sugars are highest? Most of them manage fine without daytime grass.
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Yes, I can. I'm sure they'll let me do in during the day and out at night. Hate that regime but better than the alternative I guess. Or a muzzle, which again i hate but well, cruel to be kind and all that. The farrier was on the yard couple of days ago and I asked him to feel digital pulse and he said there was nothing but I guess her footy-ness is telling me otherwise. Is there anything you see about her feet that's telling you potential lammi?
 
PoppyAnderson said:
Yes, I can. I'm sure they'll let me do in during the day and out at night. Hate that regime but better than the alternative I guess. Or a muzzle, which again i hate but well, cruel to be kind and all that. The farrier was on the yard couple of days ago and I asked him to feel digital pulse and he said there was nothing but I guess her footy-ness is telling me otherwise. Is there anything you see about her feet that's telling you potential lammi?
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For sure - a whole bunch of very obvious and fairly recent growth rings/ Coupled with the fact that she has super feet, has been sound until now, and there is nothing else to show why she might be footie. So the commonest thing is likely to be the cause, and right now that's spring grass.


Mine love being in out of the flies and heat in the daytime. They queue up in the morning to come in and eat their 12 hour soaked haylage.
 
If she were mine, I'd implement sensible lami prevention measures too. Trouble is where I am the days are warm, wet and the nights are cold - below 5 degrees so the sugar is largely staying in the grass. www.safergrass.org for details. So my girl goes out at dawn and comes in just after noon. I'd put her on a track or consider using a grazing muzzle if these were options at my yard but they are not. We don't have lami paddocks either. Oh heck - we do - its six acres plus of rye grass and clover which is growing away strongly.... :-( and only 3 not very big neds on it.
 
I'm on livery too, so not as simple but owner is very accommodating, so shouldn't be a problem. Mine too has been on the out at night, in during day regime and loved it - just so blissful having them out 24/7. Nothing blissful about lammi though so will act tomorrow. Thanks so much for your input - it's much appreciated.
 
Have you wormed her recently? Many wormers cause footiness for up to a month after dosing. Just a thought, mainly for anyone new to barefoot who happens to be reading:)
Even if you have wormed her I would still follow the advice given by others re grass.
 
Good point!

Makes me realise that I should also have said Poppy, that if you do not have her currently on magnesium oxide and on some form of yeast, then I would put her on both and you may well find that she can then tolerate the grass.
 
abitod/cptrayes
Don't have barefoot horses and not looking to pick a fight.....just genuinely interested in your comments re some wormers causing footiness up to a month after worming.

Which wormers please? Are they ones just based on a certain drug, like ivermectin or what?

I've never heard of this before, and am wondering (outloud now!) does this just apply to barefoot horses? Is it due to how you modify their diet? I can't think that is the case, but am just amazed I have never heard this before. Would be interested in any info on HOW the drug causes the footiness please.

Many thanks.

PS Sorry to sidetrack!
 
gunnergundog said:
abitod/cptrayes
Don't have barefoot horses and not looking to pick a fight.....just genuinely interested in your comments re some wormers causing footiness up to a month after worming.

Which wormers please? Are they ones just based on a certain drug, like ivermectin or what?

I've never heard of this before, and am wondering (outloud now!) does this just apply to barefoot horses? Is it due to how you modify their diet? I can't think that is the case, but am just amazed I have never heard this before. Would be interested in any info on HOW the drug causes the footiness please.

Many thanks.

PS Sorry to sidetrack!
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I have discussed this (sort of) with my vet who at times can be eminently sensible. It can be quite a controversial subject with people on both sides strongly arguing their case. So I only post from my personal experiences.

When my horse was not 100% healthy, esp gutwise a dose of a combination wormer made her very footy for weeks. It seemed to go on and on forever. I vowed never to use that wormer again.

Then this last quarter I found that a horse that had been grazing the field my horse is in, had died of colic from a heavy worm burden. So as I was going away for work for a few days I naturally got a bit stressy. I had visions of my horse getting colic and dying because no one realised it was colic and not her EPSM............... (I know I know but it is very hard to leave her).

So I wormed her with the combo that had previously made her lame for weeks. Better lame than dead thought I. Hmm.

She was footy for 3-4 days - but that was it. The difference is that at the moment her health (esp her gut) is so much better than it was. And I follow up a wormer with a few things which I believe can help. Such as Yea Sacc and FFF charcoal. This works for my very special and rather tricky girl, it isn't going to do the trick for all.

She is by the way bouncingly happy and not dead. At least she was fine at 6pm.
 
gunnergundog said:
abitod/cptrayes
Don't have barefoot horses and not looking to pick a fight.....just genuinely interested in your comments re some wormers causing footiness up to a month after worming.

Which wormers please? Are they ones just based on a certain drug, like ivermectin or what?

I've never heard of this before, and am wondering (outloud now!) does this just apply to barefoot horses? Is it due to how you modify their diet? I can't think that is the case, but am just amazed I have never heard this before. Would be interested in any info on HOW the drug causes the footiness please.

Many thanks.

PS Sorry to sidetrack!
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As Lucy has said it is more a question of "which horse" than "which wormer". And the answer is "horses whose livers are already under too much stress". That can be due to ragwort poisoning, too much grass or an underlying metabolic condition.

If they are bad with a wormer, though, they will tend to be bad for longer with a longer acting chemical like moxidectin than with benzimidazole (panacur) range drugs, with ivermectin (eqvalan) somewhere in the middle. So if in doubt, go for the mildest chemical which the worms in your area have not already got a resistance to.
 
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