Another Manege Surface Thread....HELP!

[nataliejadewood]

So there are so many threads on surfaces but a lot of them are quite old so I wondered what the latest is.

I am (hopefully) putting a manege in at the start of September and I was planning on going for silica sand with a view to adding rubber in a year or so. Is this still a good option? I hear a lot about carpet and other fibre-based surfaces but I haven't ridden on one so I am dubious. Venues never seem to have these type of surfaces, it's all Andrew Bowens.

I can't afford a waxed surface so don't want to go down that route. The sand alone is going to be £7,800 and then stabilising fibre is probably another £2,000. Do I need to just stop being tight and tell myself that's how much it will be or are the alternatives actually quite good?

Thanks in advance!

 

[LEC]

I had rubber and hated it. It moves too much and I used to stress a lot about suspensorys etc on turns especially jumping. Its only redeeming feature is it doesn't freeze and on the whole its consistent (doesn't get soft/hard). It also makes horses legs black in the wet.
Get the absolute best you can afford and then it will last you for years. Go and visit surfaces you like and find out what they are. Be super fussy about the sand as well as they all have a slightly different shape which will impact on the surface. I like sand/fibre. They work very well in winter, easy to look after and might need a bit of watering in the very heat of summer if very dry.

 

[nataliejadewood]

Thanks for your help! I'm looking at a pre-mixed one from Sportrack Surfaces which is silica sand and fibre as I do prefer this option. Where I am is quite exposed so I don't know whether that will force me to have to have a rubber topper to stop the surface blowing away?! Otherwise what is the point of adding rubber?

 

[oldie48]

I've got sand with a rubber chip topping. If I could have afforded a silica sand +fibre I would have had that but I couldn't justify it as a one horse owner. Actually, it's ridden very well, it took a while to settle but once well wetted it's been fine. It doesn't make my horses legs black but I think when it breaks down to a dust it would. tbh I don't think there's a perfect outdoor surface. My friend's silica sand + waxed fibre can be slippy in the wet and does freeze, it still needs watering in very dry weather. The rubber on mine stops the sand drying out and also prevents freezing but it's not such a nice surface. Horses for courses, I suppose but I wouldn't touch carpet fibre as I've heard some very negative comments.

 

[nataliejadewood]

I've got sand with a rubber chip topping. If I could have afforded a silica sand +fibre I would have had that but I couldn't justify it as a one horse owner. Actually, it's ridden very well, it took a while to settle but once well wetted it's been fine. It doesn't make my horses legs black but I think when it breaks down to a dust it would. tbh I don't think there's a perfect outdoor surface. My friend's silica sand + waxed fibre can be slippy in the wet and does freeze, it still needs watering in very dry weather. The rubber on mine stops the sand drying out and also prevents freezing but it's not such a nice surface. Horses for courses, I suppose but I wouldn't touch carpet fibre as I've heard some very negative comments.

Ooh thanks for the advice, all I could see were people saying how good the carpets were but I really didn't think they could be. That is also a useful point that the rubber keeps the moisture in too as where it will go there is no way of watering it when it's dry. Thanks

 

[Ownedby4horses]

Definitely silica sand and fibre. Having gone through the pains of a carpet arena that we had so much trouble with and ended up adding tons and tons of sand, as it refused to bed in, I would never touch carpet again.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

We are mid-build, putting in sand and fibre. Just a point to be aware of, if it gets dry and you have an exposed location then the fibre will start blowing away because the sand won’t stick to it. You will need to water it in dry spells.

 

[Red-1]

We are mid-build, putting in sand and fibre. Just a point to be aware of, if it gets dry and you have an exposed location then the fibre will start blowing away because the sand won’t stick to it. You will need to water it in dry spells.

This! We had a sand and fibre one at work, when it was dry and windy, it looked like a whole troop of bunnies running across the arena. They gathered in corners. They would even jump the kick boards when it was really windy.

Some of the horses spooked when a gust made the fibre-bunnies run unexpectedly in front of you.

Within a few years, we had a sand surface, rather than a sand and fibre. The fibre bunnies had upped and left home. The more nervous horses and riders were relieved, but the surface did then ride deep.

Sadly, we then replaced with a very well known waxed sand surface, at great expense, and it was unusable. So much so we had to take it all up and start again.

 

[Hallo2012]

see i have silica sand with carpet fibre on top and LOVE it...rides the same all year round,, never deep, never slippy, very low maintenance.

i would do silica sand topped with X ride which is the most reputable large chunk fibre provider IMO and i know a lot of pro's with this surface

 

[littleshetland]

I have silica sand with a 50% rubber chips and 50% carpet fibre mix on top. Arena was built 6 months ago...so far, so good!

 

[asmp]

Recently used a carpet surface and it was horrible. I was leading ponies and it was like wading through snow it was so deep. The owners did remove some to try and alleviate the problem. However, as bits of metal carpet gripper were then found, we no longer use it.

 

[nataliejadewood]

Definitely silica sand and fibre. Having gone through the pains of a carpet arena that we had so much trouble with and ended up adding tons and tons of sand, as it refused to bed in, I would never touch carpet again.

Thanks for the advice, several people I've spoken to have said they've had issues with carpets so will definitely steer clear!

 

[ester]

There's also diff waste regs that have come in with regards to use of carpet

 

[Xmasha]

we have a sand and fibre arena, its been in about 7 years now. As others have said when it gets dry the fibre can come to the top but mine hasnt blown away. The only other issue i have is grass/weeds can grow in it. So i have to treat with a spray through spring. If you just pull it out it takes too much of the fibre with it. So i find its best to just spray it. We had a rubber one before , and i can honestly say our sand and fibre is far better

 

[nataliejadewood]

Thanks everyone, useful food for thought! Because it is so bloody expensive I want to get it right!

 

[nataliejadewood]

we have a sand and fibre arena, its been in about 7 years now. As others have said when it gets dry the fibre can come to the top but mine hasnt blown away. The only other issue i have is grass/weeds can grow in it. So i have to treat with a spray through spring. If you just pull it out it takes too much of the fibre with it. So i find its best to just spray it. We had a rubber one before , and i can honestly say our sand and fibre is far better

Thanks for your advice. I was thinking of adding a rubber topper in a year or so once it's settled, hoping this would stop the fibre coming to the top/blowing away and also retain the moisture as someone pointed out above. What didn't you like about the rubber vs sand+fibre? I use a rubber-topped school at the moment (my neighbour's), the rubber part is fine but the sand underneath is so deep and I don't want to ride my youngster over there for fear of tendon injuries!

 

[Ownedby4horses]

OP, im Pretty sure a lot of councils in the UK don’t allow rubber in arenas anymore, I don’t think I dreamt it but I’m sure there was some sort of “new” environmental legislation (can anyone expand for the OP please).

Ive known of a number of silica and fibre arenas in quite windy spots and they’ve put up the plastic mesh around the arena fencing, which acts as a windbreak and helps your surface blowing away. This might be an option for you.

 

[Xmasha]

Thanks for your advice. I was thinking of adding a rubber topper in a year or so once it's settled, hoping this would stop the fibre coming to the top/blowing away and also retain the moisture as someone pointed out above. What didn't you like about the rubber vs sand+fibre? I use a rubber-topped school at the moment (my neighbour's), the rubber part is fine but the sand underneath is so deep and I don't want to ride my youngster over there for fear of tendon injuries!

the horses spring off the sand and fibre as opposed to going through the rubber. If you think about it, the aim of your surface is to replicate good going on turf. The fibres act in a similar way to the roots of grass and hold the surface together better. Whereas the rubber sits on top and moves. My rubber arena did ride deep at times, i havent had that issue with the fibre

 

[EventingMum]

There are different types of carpet, the big chunks are hideous, don't mix well, and are often contaminated with metal and dusty. Actual fibres rather than chunks are much better but both are sometimes referred to as carpet fibre.

 

[sbloom]

As a saddle fitter I see some horrors, chopped up car seats being the worst, WHY would you want bouncy foam in your arena? As EventingMum has said carpet seems to vary a lot, I see more bad than good, but have definitely seen good ones. I ought to ask when I see a good one (though I keep very quiet at the ones who've just paid to have something bouncy installed )

 

[asmp]

Was at a yard some years ago that had a lovely big sand school. However, the only time I wanted to use it (I’m a happy hacker) was when the roads were unusable due to ice but then the sand had frozen in ridges too ?.

I’m assuming things have moved on now and that silicon sand doesn’t freeze?

 

[outdoor girl]

We've got Flexiride on top of sand. It's great to ride and jump on, doesn't freeze and the wind doesn't seem to blow it around. It's been down a few years now and we've had one top up. I do agree about the weeds growing though. We really have to keep on top of them.

 

[sbloom]

Was at a yard some years ago that had a lovely big sand school. However, the only time I wanted to use it (I’m a happy hacker) was when the roads were unusable due to ice but then the sand had frozen in ridges too ?.

I’m assuming things have moved on now and that silicon sand doesn’t freeze?

Freezing is about how good the drainage is, most surfaces can freeze if they're wet.

 

[sport horse]

We have a silica sand and rubber chip surface. It is used by up to 10 horses and day for flat work and jumping. It has been down for 20 years. It rarely freezes if we remember to harrow it when a frost is expected. It does not make the horses legs black. The rubber has not broken down. The drainage is not as good as when it was new - not surprising. It is a bit lookse in very dry spells of weather.

 

[brighteyes]

I have Economy Track and it has been down since 2003 when I had an arena overhaul. It only rides top two inches or so 'deep' (but is still OK) in ridiculously dry conditions and it seems to be some sort of fibre mixture and silica sand. Yes it freezes in really cold weather if it has rained but the moisture- retention properties of whatever is in it is why it holds on to water when it is very dry. A friend did a DIY and got sand and some sort of minced carpet fibres and that is also OK but goes much deeper than mine when it is dry. I'm not sure what you have to do if you buy from some 'pop-up' supplier and things go wrong. Cry presumably.

 

[frolickyhorse]

We've got Flexiride on top of sand. It's great to ride and jump on, doesn't freeze and the wind doesn't seem to blow it around. It's been down a few years now and we've had one top up. I do agree about the weeds growing though. We really have to keep on top of them.

HI

Hi, you sound really happy with your surface, please advise me how much Flexiride is on the top? I had flexiride only put down 5" deep, which is good but I am finding that it is riding deep. Should I bring up all the flexiride and put sand base down or do I run silica through the top? Any advice ? Tia.

 

[outdoor girl]

Ooooh, now you're asking! I'm afraid I have no idea. Try ringing the firm who make the Flexiride (can''t remember the name). I'm sure they'll be able to advise you.