Another Newbie Needing Advice! Terrier recall....can it be taught?

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Hello all,

I have long used this forum as an invaluable source of information but never needed to start a new post of my own. However, after last night's very scary incident, I have decided to take the plunge in the hope that someone can offer me some good advice....? Thanks in advance and sorry for joining and immediately requesting advice!

A bit of background - we have had our terrier cross (mainly Jack Russell we think) since she was 8 weeks old. We have done a lot of training with her - at puppy classes, using a dog trainer and on our own in the park and at home. She is incredibly intelligent but also INCREDIBLY enthusiastic. We can often use this to our advantage but often it works against us. When she was just a pup she ran off after some rabbits while I was walking her - I lost her (and my sanity) for an hour. Since then we have really cracked down on her recall training using toys and a whistle (she's not interested in food at all). It's worked really well on our usual walks - one quick call and she's back under your feet hoping for the ball to be thrown for her. The whistle is used occasionally prior to a REALLY fun ball throwing sesh so she will always come back to you after a whistle. Also, she knows that she is given a command once and she is required to listen the first time at which point she gets lots of praise.

However, last night we went for a walk in the woods (probably a mistake considering that this is when all the rabbits come out), we had a lovely walk and then she spotted some rabbits, her head went up and she was off. We both spotted the warning signs and told her to 'leave it' immediately but she wasn't listening. We couldn't find her for ages and she even ended up going into the fenced off sewage works. We called her, used the whistle, squeaked her ball but nothing worked. We got her back in the end and she was a bit bruised and battered from nettle stings and bramble cuts but she was ok. However, I'm ashamed to admit that I told her off. I know I shouldn't have done that and I could kick myself for it.

Solutions that we have come up with so far;-
- retrain the 'leave it' command in the house and out in the park with her ball
- take her to an area with lots of rabbits and retrain the leave it command there
- take her to agility training in an effort to up her obedience and her perception of us being more fun

Is anyone else able to offer any good advice? Please, please help. I really don't want to have to keep her on a lead all the time.

Thank you very, very much!

LBx
 
I'm not a dog trainer, but I do have terriers, including a Border terrier and this is whats worked for me;

In addition to what you're already been doing when out with recall and praise/reward. Keep her focus on you, recall and reward frequently so that she doesn't get engrossed in her own agenda and forget she's out with her leader.
Vary the degree of recall, sometimes asking her to come back and have the lead on, sometimes back to sit in front of you and sometimes, just for her to stop, look and listen to you before you give praise and permission to carry on.
If she doesn't come back to you, when you get her, just put the lead on and take her straight home. Game over, even if you've just started the walk.
I'm guessing she's still quite young, so don't get disheartened, it'll come with consistency and repetition.
If you are walking somewhere where the temptation is too great for her to reliably be recalled, just keep her on the lead until she's advanced enough to listen. That way, you'll avoid her doing the wrong thing and her training taking a step backwards.

I do have to say, that with one of my terriers, when she was a pup, she rounded up a field of sheep and lambs. That was the one and only time she got a few good slaps. The consequences to the sheep and the possibility that she could have been shot, meant drastic action was needed. From that day on, she has never shown any inclination to chase sheep or deer. I did feel bad about it, but in hindsight, it was probably the most effective and quickest lesson she learnt.
 
It is hard isn't it? I have a terrier bitch too and she does come back, but if she gets onto the scent of anything, well............. Last night she disappeared into field of rape,I thought I knew where she was, but she shot off down the tramlines and reappeared at the other end of the field jumping up and down!

I wonder about telling off, because the few times I have got really cross with her, it has worked.

The first was about keeping out of the pantry, and now she never goes in. The second was about chasing the horses when I turned them out. She got a good telling off and now just sits and waits for me to finish.

But if you have been calling - for some time!!! - and they come back, how can you tell them off then. I think if I could get the timing right it might be a solution, but it is hard.
I have NEVER been cross with her when she comes back, but sometimes rather relieved.
 
Concentrate on the ball retrieval: it keeps my born to run springer nearby. Have you considered scent training? You can start her with dragging something nice and stinky on a line and get her to follow.
 
We have bred working terriers for years and whilst various methods of getting them to come back to you might work, you have to remember there is no way you will 'train out' what is bred into them.

Sadly we have attended many a 'rescue' for a fat, unfit pet terrier that has followed his bred in instincts and gone to ground. Many don't have happy endings.

Going dog walking where there are any opportunites for terriers to follow their instincts and hunt needs to be done with caution.

They can be easily trained not to thieve, bite, house train etc, but they are bred to hunt and they do !
 
What we found with our JRT, was that you can train a recall based on good things, but there has to be a 'what if'. So - for them, 'what if' they don't come? If what they're chasing is way more fun than the best game you could ever give them? The recall to game/fuss worked really well when ours was a pup, but then she began to find other things, occasionally, more fun.

To remedy this, following the method I'd been taught as a child, we'd set up something that she would find 'too fun'. Then call her. She wouldn't come. So walk towards her, still calling, until got her. Then, without a word/look, keep calling, and walk back to where she was called from, pulling her with. Once arriving at that spot, lots and lots of praise, game etc. If the set up was something she'd chase or other dogs to play with, we left a light lead on her, to facilitate catching - fairly easy to step on it and get her! After a few episodes she learnt that NOT coming wasn't much fun, as she ended up coming anyway, and it wasn't pleasant being walked back to where she should have been. Now she comes even if chasing a fox/cat/squirrel - yes it takes a few calls, but she hears us through the adrenalin and reluctantly leaves the chase.
 
What adorable alice says. I have a border x lakie who is very obedient - up to the point she finds something more interesting. She would ignore a lorry coming toward her to chase a bird! Not helped that she now has only 1 eye! I keep her on lead on ANY walk away from home, and she is seriously monitored at home. My JRT, as an opposite, would rather die than leave me. :)
 
Definitely get training a good 'leave it' (has saved me a number of times with Oz also a JRT). He was taught recall with a ball and now is safe to take out hacking with my horse, I also use 'wait' (taught by throwing ball, and then making him wait before I send him to retrieve), as it is useful for crossing road etc... when off lead.
 
Thanks very much for the replies everyone! Some good advice there!

Dobiegirl, that article was very interesting. I will be trying their techniques in the park today. Can I suggest that anyone else who is having the same problems as me to read the article too?

It alse made me feel a lot better that other people have had/are having the same problems as me - thanks guys! It's a difficult issue that I have never had to deal with before - I've had two terriers and a number of other breeds before our present dog and they were model citizens by comparison!

After reading everyone's replies and the article suggested by Dobiegirl we realised that we'd messed up on 'the fateful evening'! We were enjoying just having a walk and watching her scamper around without being under our feet bugging us for the ball so she didnt get her 'chase' fix and we were not keeping her focus on us. Lesson learnt!

Also having thought about what everyone says, without entirely letting her off the hook, she is only young (15 months) and she is normally incredibly obedient so maybe I was expecting too much from her when it was us that had messed up. We took her on one of our usual walks last night (with the ball) and she was brilliant - she stopped and waited when asked until we got close to her, she stopped and waited at all the gates until we reached her and we'd walked through the gates first and she even left her ball after we'd thrown it and said 'leave it'. The walk made me realise that she is good providing we choose the right situation for walking her off lead while still remaining alert for any small and furries. I'm just going to have to accept that she is not like any of the other dogs I've had before and I'm not going to be able to train that into her but that doesnt have to stop us having fun. Phew, sorry about having gone on a bit!

Right, will try upload some piccies now so you can see the terrioriser herself...!
 
Some good advice on this thread but I thought I'd mention one more sneaky method!

Dogs are pack animals and they do dote on company. If they know where you are (are you shouting/whistle blowing?), they are confident they can get on with their own business and come back and find you whenever they decide they want to. Don't repeatedly call, they'll get tone deaf and ignore you.

A couple of things. Work on this basic insecurity. Occasionally hide and give one call on the whistle. Make the dog come and find you! Tremendous fuss and games when the dog eventually finds you! It's a game and they love it.

Let the dog run dragging a length of cord as someone has already mentioned. Then, if the dog is intent on something which interests him (maybe he is scratching at a rabbit hole?), you can sneak up and tie the cord to something solid and back off without being discovered. Wait out of sight for the moment he realises he's caught and let him think he's stuck like that for ever and lost you! The longer he suffers, the quicker he will come to call next time!

Don't be predictable. If the dg stops, looks back, then decides it knows which direction you are going to go next, go a different way. Keep them guessing. Similar to the above psychology -- disappear occasionally (behind a tree?) and make them find YOU.

Tough love, but it works.
 
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Another bit of good advice! We've tried hiding (quite funny listening to her thundering back to find you!) we havent tried changing direction all the time. That's another thing that we can work ok. Thanks very much!
 
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