Another Please Help Re Puppy

[ibot]

Hey all


so please i really need your help with my puppy. He is going to be 10 weeks old on thursday a Jack russell Cross maybe Norfolf Terrier.

60% of the time he is lovely but the rest of the time he is biting he is really mean with it and if i say NO he growls and gets worse i have had a toy in my hand to get him to bite that instead but it only works for a little bit.

Im willing to do anything but he is attacking my kids and hurting them he has ripped there clothes with them in it.
I know to start he thinks he is playing but it just gets nasty.

Please help not sure how long we will be able to keep him for, this is not my first dog by any means im not sure what to say now. please don't think badly of me im going to get his second injection done on thursday and im going to speak to the vet about him i also start puppy training on sunday.

thank you

xxx

 

[Vizslak]

You have to nip this is in the bud now, hes 10 weeks old, dont be wet about it if you say no and he growls and gets worse you need to teach him no means no! Shoving a toy in his mouth at the peak of his behaviour isnt going to work, you are rewarding his bad behaviour. It sounds like he is already getting the upper hand at 10 weeks old, this will store up major trouble for the future. NO means NO simple as....dogs dont come with built in commands, hes a baby, you need to teach him what no means before he will respect it.

 

[Dobiegirl]

This is typical puppy behaviour, ours was like this, if you cant distract him with a toy just pick him up and put him in his crate or another room. Makes sure he has lots of things to chew including bones uncooked and non weight bearing. If he comes out of his crate and does it again just go ahah and put him back for time out, he will soon get the message. Some people say you should cry out when he does it, really shriek but this had no affect on our puppy, just time out worked for us.

 

[ibot]

thank you i will start fresh tomorrow so what everytime he is naughty put him in the kitchen?? for how long?? god kids were much easier

 

[CorvusCorax]

A time out might work as mentioned, make it swift and firm, not a tug of war or a screaming match or a big game.

Or if he is strong enough to take it, a tap with a rolled up newspaper. Used to think it was pretty cruel and old school myself but good grief, it certainly sharpened my brat up...

 

[galaxy]

I used to put H in time outs when he overstepped the mark.... in fact I still do, although he is rarely that bad now!! ha ha!

 

[ibot]

so it will work that is good. but how long?????? i know with kids its a minute for every year but for puppies??

 

[Imogen Rose]

you could try pinning him to the floor. mine squirmed and wriggled and still tried to bite but i just pinned him and ignored him when he relaxed i let go. if he bit again i pinned him. and never play tug of war, and never allow him to growl at you. the second he does for anything grab him and pin him.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I would do it for about 5minutes, I know its time consuming but it does work, and I wouldnt let him bac in until he is quiet and settled.

 

[Kellys Heroes]

We 'yelped' with our dogs when they were pups and that seemed to work, mimicking their mums.
Our GSD now approx 17 months old (rescue) knows nothing and is a bit too old for yelping, so we literally hold our hands up and say (firmly) "ah ah, friends now" and she's quickly learning that that means stop.
K x

 

[galaxy]

agreed, about 5 mins. I never counted. Just let him settle (we didn't have anywhere to shut him, and I refused to use the crate as it should not be used for punishment) in a down in the corner of the room. Once he had stayed put for a few minutes I allowed him up.

 

[ibot]

agreed, about 5 mins. I never counted. Just let him settle (we didn't have anywhere to shut him, and I refused to use the crate as it should not be used for punishment) in a down in the corner of the room. Once he had stayed put for a few minutes I allowed him up.

that could be intresting so looks like supernanny works here too

 

[Dobiegirl]

you could try pinning him to the floor. mine squirmed and wriggled and still tried to bite but i just pinned him and ignored him when he relaxed i let go. if he bit again i pinned him. and never play tug of war, and never allow him to growl at you. the second he does for anything grab him and pin him.

Pinning is no longer recommended and as for tug of war Ive always played this with my Dobes and our Lancashire Heeler and they growl away and they know its fun and they have never gone to bite me.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Ibot, actually, get a copy of the Culture Clash by Jane Donaldson, it gives very clear guidance about bite inhibition....it's a bit fluffy for me in parts but the foundation training guides are very good.

I also play tug of war but my dog is trained when to engage and when to let go. My comment about tug of war referred to not grabbing the dog and nagging it and hassling it out of the room, more, just up, out, quick, no talking.

I'm not a big fan of pinning, especially a small puppy, having said that I am sure not everyone is a big fan of Mr Rolled Up Newspaper either. Tis all ideas!

 

[ibot]

thank you as i said im happy to try anything before it gets to much which its pretty close to now i even looked at the dog whisperer site yesterday for tips

 

[galaxy]

that could be intresting so looks like supernanny works here too

you laugh, but H was my 1st dog and I worked in child care for years so it was kind of my natural reaction!!!!

Worked with H though. I didn't have a biting problem, but he used to climb on the sofa and get growly when I tried to remove him. So I started whiping him off and putting him in a time out. He stopped the behaviour within days. Good luck!

 

[Vizslak]

I dont have a problem with pinning in pups this age (I dont like to see it used with older dogs)...their mother would do it as would any other older dogs they push their luck with. Would try the time out first though.

 

[Imogen Rose]

Iw worked with my dog as he would get himself into a frenzy as a puppy and was incredibly dominant. Not everyone agrees with eachother tecniques, its what works for the dog. I do play tug of war with my dog, once he understood the leave command and didnt snatch; I ment thet i wouldnt play it with a small puppy that didnt understad what was too rough in play.

 

[ibot]

i do think he is trying for top dog TBH he has got a very big personality and maybe thats why,

 

[CorvusCorax]

As you say it depends on the dog IR...I did it to my insecure large dog in an emergency and I am not convinced he would not have gone for my face for a few seconds...my young dog is much more dominant/cocksure and I have had to hold him dog to stop him throwing a fit before now and it has calmed him down...it's diagnosing blind over the internet that is the problem, we don't know what 'kind' of dog the OP's is if that makes sense.

 

[littlemisslauren]

My terrorist was like this, if not worse when she was tiny.

Her first day home she ran around barking at us all and nipping feet She would bite if you ate food and she didnt have any, if you ignored her too long and if you breathed without her permission.

She was horrible. Ripped clothes, scratches everywhere... blergh.

We tried everything, saying 'No' resulted in bigger barks and bites, pinning made her worse, rolled up newspaper egged her on, ignoring her did nothing. My dad (old schoooool) smacked her for biting him... so she bit him back... harder.

Can you tell I really didnt enjoy this phase of my dogs life?

We eventually sussed her out. She was nice as pie if she was being played with or fussed, as soon as that stopped demon puppy came back.

Many wont agree with this but I locked her in the kitchen for 45 mins at one point, on her own. It was that or kill her after that horrible day we started puppy time outs. And they worked , as long as she had no distractions in her time out area.

I now have a lovely little terrier (the same one) who is too soft for her own good and has spent the evening being brushed (In a fashion) by my 3 year old god daughter. I trust her in any situation, I never thought I would be able to say that when she was tiny.

 

[ibot]

My terrorist was like this, if not worse when she was tiny.

Her first day home she ran around barking at us all and nipping feet She would bite if you ate food and she didnt have any, if you ignored her too long and if you breathed without her permission.

She was horrible. Ripped clothes, scratches everywhere... blergh.

We tried everything, saying 'No' resulted in bigger barks and bites, pinning made her worse, rolled up newspaper egged her on, ignoring her did nothing. My dad (old schoooool) smacked her for biting him... so she bit him back... harder.

Can you tell I really didnt enjoy this phase of my dogs life?

We eventually sussed her out. She was nice as pie if she was being played with or fussed, as soon as that stopped demon puppy came back.

Many wont agree with this but I locked her in the kitchen for 45 mins at one point, on her own. It was that or kill her after that horrible day we started puppy time outs. And they worked , as long as she had no distractions in her time out area.

I now have a lovely little terrier (the same one) who is too soft for her own good and has spent the evening being brushed (In a fashion) by my 3 year old god daughter. I trust her in any situation, I never thought I would be able to say that when she was tiny.

wow that really sounds like mickey he is a monkey and there have been a few times that i have regretted having him which i never thought i would say.

 

[Booboos]

Are you sure his growls are aggressive and not playful? It is quite rare for such a young puppy to be dominant.

Also it's important to interpret the behaviour:

- if he nips you while you are playing with him then it's because he does not know not to do so. You need to teach him bite inhibition. To do this you play with him as normal, when he nips you make a very high pitched squeely noise and keep your hand where it was (do not remove your hand as this encourages further chasing and playing). In dog language you are saying 'wow that hurt!'. You may notice the puppy looking at you, turning his head sideways or pricking his ears. Repeat everytime he nips you, by about the third repeat you should notice a difference in the strength of the bite - this is the puppy trying to figure out what does and does not hurt you.

- if he bites things you do not want him to, like trouser legs, stand still (to stop the game as much as possible), distract him with a nice squeeky toy and if that doesn't work use your hands to gently open his mouth to release the object (don't pull him off it as that again encourages play) and use your no word ('uh ah' works for many people). If he goes back then repeat the disengagement, the no word and remove him to a safe place on his own for a few minutes (make sure that you wait till he stops barking before you let him out again). Like children it is important that you give him a chance to change the behaviour before you escalate to the worst punishment (time out).

- don't leave him unsupervised unless he is an 100% safe place, i.e. his crate, with appropriate things to eat and destroy.

- increase his exercise which includes not just walks but also training. Training keeps their brains active and helps tire them out. At this age it is crucial he gets socialised as much as possible to take advantage of the 6 to 12 weeks window of opportunity.

 

[Phoebe]

I really recommend teaching bite inhibition.. its a very useful skill for a dog as they learn to be gentle and you can then play with them properly as they are older and they know the rules. Admittedly its not much fun being dragged down the garden by my arm, by a Great Dane, but she doesnt leave a mark when she's doing it, bless her

 

[s4sugar]

Applying Bitter Apple to the areas he bites can help in teaching bite inhibition. Then push or clap or make a sudden noise, don't make it a tug of war or anything else that could be a game.

How old was he when taken from Mum & siblings? He may be one that scruffing works for.

 

[ibot]

hey thank you for all your advice there is so much im not sure what to go with i have tried time out today and i have waited for him to stop crying then letting him out.
he is all snuggled up next to me right now this is my fav part of the day.

he was given to me at 5 weeks and 1 day the guy i got him from told me his birth date was different so i was expecting him to be older when he arrived he had worms and ear mites. the guy who had him did not know where to buy wormer from was not best pleased. he also said that the mother of the pup was not a good one and tended to dump puppies after 4 weeks.
booboos i would love to socialise him and have done a little with dogs that i trust but we have kennel cough hitting the area so its hard. but he gets his second injection tomorrow and then puppy classes on sunday. i also have a friend with her border terrier coming for a puppy play day tomorrow

then after easter at least he can start coming to the yard with me.

yes his growls are mean he bares his teeth looks quite like a piranha lol

 

[CorvusCorax]

Ibot - that last post makes a lot of sense, breeder sounds like a total ******!! Nobody/no doggy! has taught him any manners/how to behave, bless him, so you really need to be doing the job for him.

Please be very clear and firm in your teaching/corrections - a dog with no ambiguity in his life is a happy dog they like to know what is what.

 

[galaxy]

do you know anyone with a well behaved but bossy adult bitch? Preferably one that has had a litter of pups? I always find they are quite good at discipline

 

[ibot]

i dont think i do know anyone with a bossy bitch i was at the vet today for his second injection and micro chipped and she brought her 9 month old puppy in to play and he was a delight he was nicely submissive which im surprised about as he is so confident was worried he was going to be as he is with us but he was lovely and he had the largest smile on his face really engoyed it she said manners with people are easier to teach than getting on with other dogs so i guess thats a plus she also is letting me start puppy classes on sun.


thank you cave i am going to be very clear with what is good and not. its my kids that wreck my training

 

[Mogg]

wow that really sounds like mickey he is a monkey and there have been a few times that i have regretted having him which i never thought i would say.

There you have it! it must be the name Mickey!!! Mine is also a Mickey, a parson russell terrier and jeez what a nightmare his puppy months were. There were many many times i regretted getting him.

He too would bite, grab & rip clothes etc. Tried a yelp in the manner a playmate would...it just encouraged him even more ( i think because he has a very strong prey drive and i imagine the yelping sound fed into that)

A smack/tap and a firm 'no' would result in a harder bite back.

I too ended up giving him timeouts in another room, simply because i became so frustrated and angry at him that i didnt want to be around him. it gave us both time to calm down.

We began puppy classes fairly early on cos i knew i'd got my hands full with this one. The classes were great in that they were held in a securely fenced field and a large part of the class was for socialising with the other pups all off lead but under the supervison of the trainers (a police dog handler, a dog psychologist and a trainee) and ofc the owners. They would point out the various behaviours we were seeing, and ways of intervening if things got a bit rough. Their main tool in breaking up situations was using a squirt of water from a bottle with a sports lid, accompanied by a stern 'no'. They also used a stable in the field as a timeout room

i didnt want to use water in the house but i found that a squirt of compressed air from a can of keyboard cleaner was really effective in stopping him in his tracks. it meant having a can in every room just so one was to hand should i need it.

He is now almost 3, great with other dogs, great with people tho i wouldnt trust him off lead around kids, purely because he can still get excited by shrieks and squeals that kids inevitably make when playing. Luckily i am childfree so i dont have that to worry about in the home. Ofc age played a part in him calming down....that and 4-5 hours of tearing about down at our stables every day...he just wants to sleep when he gets home

He's far from perfect but now i wouldnt be without him but in the early days i seriously considered taking him back to the breeder.