Another Saddle fit woe post :(

BethanT

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So I have been using the same saddle fitter for about 2 years now, after a disaster with the one before it took me a while to find someone I liked the sound of and was recommended by people I trust and do similar things with their horses.

I thoroughly agree with their methods, more remedial fitting, and so the idea is that you fit wider and use shims to make up the difference - allowing the horses back muscles to expand and develop with work rather than be inhibited. I understand that this isn't the conventional way to saddle fit and I know a lot of people don't and won't agree with it. But it has worked for me and my horses over the past two years, and the shape of my horses' back has changed so much for the better. Before he had a lot of muscle atrophy from the previous fitter fitting the saddle as he was without assessing what he was like after work. I agree that a saddle should be fitted based on what the horses profile looks like after work as well as before.

I went up to see the fitter in February as my saddle was starting to move back - a sign that the saddle was too wide. They adjusted the flocking and we played around with the different pads I have, and I went away happy with what we had. But a few weeks later the saddle was still slipping and my horse was getting grumpy to saddle up. At the time I put this down to more hind gut/ulcer symptoms as he was in no way reactive over his back on massage or with the physio. I messaged fitter to arrange for them to come out to me ASAP or me to them, but proved difficult to find a slot that suited both of us. I have just started a new job so limited with the time off I can take, leaving weekends really, but as you can imagine these are high in demand.

In the meantime, I had played around with the pads myself, as I thought I had a decent enough understanding to be able to make a good judgement call. Played around and saddle stopped moving, felt much more level in general, horse is going better than ever. Jumping well, performing well on the flat, good overall condition, no reactivity over his back etc etc.

Finally got round to seeing the fitter yesterday at their place, so travelled over an hour to get there in the box, and the first thing they noticed was how his back profile had changed (negatively) and how over developed the muscle on the underside of his neck was. Felt along over his back and he nearly dropped to the floor. I was in shock, and verging on in tears. Comforted me in saying that if it was a case of him being ridden s**t then he wouldn't have had a healthy back profile before. I wouldn't have suddenly started to ride badly. I hope that is the case anyway! So begs the question, why has he changed?! Well turns out the saddle was FARRRR tooo wide for him, and no amount of flocking and padding was going to make up for the difference. To the point where he needs to drop a whole saddle size. Which is alarming given he has always been that size since we started. They had no saddles on them there and then that would have been suitable apart from brand new, but obviously the concern is the cause of him dropping off so much. His work load has changed from a year ago, I am competing much more with him, but if anything he should have muscled up more and leaned up, so I don't think that warrants that much of a drop down in size.

So now I am in a mess with what to do. Physio is coming out on Tuesday to have a look at him, but in the meantime I have no saddle to ride in, and so potentially loosing more muscle until I can ride. Have decided that I will just have to lunge him this week and long reign to keep up the muscle so he doesn't drop off too much.

OH is saying that maybe that saddle fitting method isn't working, and there is a reason it isn't the conventional way. I can see his point, and the other problem is that the make of saddle is so hard to come by second hand that often there isn't much choice that to buy new, at well over £1,000!

I know I need to wait and see what physio says, and perhaps call the vet for a work up, but where the hell do I go from there. Do I stick with the current fitter or TRY and find someone else who can fit a much wider range of saddles, and potentially find something much better suited to us both? I don't want to try someone else, not agree and end up upsetting the other fitter. My brain is going stupid miles an hour thinking he has KS, or his old SI injury has flared up again. Which would just be bloody typical as we were just getting underway with the event season, registered BE and qualified for the BD area festival with a shot of doing well.
 

xxKatxx

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I’m pretty sure I know the exact brand of saddles you are referring to- I used to have on on my mare and it was absolutely fantastic, but after about three years she was getting older and had lost condition when I went away to uni and she wasn’t ridden as often, and suddenly we were having problems as you describe with the saddle. I kept getting it refitted, and getting the physio back to check her back and every time she kept showing up sore in the same place at the back of the saddle. I ended up ditching it and going back to a conventional saddle. I think while it’s a lovely idea that they fit for life, sadly it doesn’t really happen as they can change shape out of what they can make the saddle fit.
 

xxKatxx

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Forget to mention, this was in spite of unconventional saddle fitter insisting saddle was absolutely fine, despite evidence from the physio and her behaviour saying other wise- hence swapping the saddle!
 

Red-1

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You have my sympathy, saddle fit issues are the worst! I would do the long reining etc that you plan, and forgive yourself, you have tried your best to get it right for the mare.


Going forwards, Yes, it may take some £ to get it right. Presumably they would take your saddle in part ex to have a new one? Or, you could try loads of secondhand ones and find one where the tree shape is correct and the basic fit, and have a saddler fit it?


I too have changed the type of fitting over the years. What suits at one time may not always be a good option.


It may help if people knew where in the country you were?
 

ester

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there was something else going on for this horse earlier in the year too wasn’t there? Sorry I can’t remember what, just that you were frustrated but thought it might be relevant.
 

Wheels

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IME changes to the profile of the back can be an indication of physical issues elsewhere. If your horse has had SI issues previously then that might be a good place to start.

I wouldn't discount this fitter or their methods which have worked well up to now until you have had a full work up at the vets. Saddle slippage in any direction is often attributed to lameness and you may end up throwing good money after bad on changing saddles that may or may not help
 

wingedhorse

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Is this an LM saddle? / Saddle fitter.

I like their saddles but don’t think going too wide works for every horse.

Saddle might be fundamentally too wide for horse.

Similar idea but narrower saddle might work better.
 

Batgirl

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IME changes to the profile of the back can be an indication of physical issues elsewhere. If your horse has had SI issues previously then that might be a good place to start.

I wouldn't discount this fitter or their methods which have worked well up to now until you have had a full work up at the vets. Saddle slippage in any direction is often attributed to lameness and you may end up throwing good money after bad on changing saddles that may or may not help

This is what it screams to me.
 

BethanT

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Thanks all.

Yes they are the LM saddles. I love the concept, and the style of riding in which they encourage - classical dressage and seat etc. But I am wanting to do more BD and start BE which requires a different style of riding that doesn’t see classical dressage as the way to get the higher marks. So I need to make a choice on what way I want to go.

Yes horse has had previous SI problems so I have got in touch with my Vet and depending on what happens with Physio tomorrow he will be called out to do a work up. If worries me how he has got so reactive so quickly.

I think I need to try a more conventional method now, what we are trying clearly isn’t working. It is also extremely hard to find the saddle I want/need second hand so often going brand new is the only option. They just aren’t a widely sourced brand because of the way they are fitted.

I now just have the dilemma of how I handle it, as I get on well with the fitter and I know they only have the best interests of the horse at heart and I don’t want to burn any bridges in case I need or want to go back. I like keeping my options open.
 

ester

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I think its possible to do similar with more conventional saddles too if that makes sense. I also think that given that the fitter found the sore spot any sensible person wouldn't take it personally/burn bridges if you said you needed to try and alternative.

I had SI and ulcers in my head and was on phone so couldn't do a quick search!
 

Wheels

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Thanks all.

Yes they are the LM saddles. I love the concept, and the style of riding in which they encourage - classical dressage and seat etc. But I am wanting to do more BD and start BE which requires a different style of riding that doesn’t see classical dressage as the way to get the higher marks.

That's interesting - what do you see as the main differences Bethan?
 

Pinkvboots

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I have an lm saddle for one of my horses he had wastage so he was fitted with a wider saddle and a shim numnah with a lot of shims he only has 1 thin shim in each pocket now his back has changed beyond belief, I wouldn't completely blame the saddle fit just yet if your horse has had other issues going on that could have easily contributed to the sore back so maybe see what the physio says.
 

BethanT

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BD like to see them much more “in your hand” and higher up in the neck. I only say this as I was having lessons with the classical trainer and a grade 2 listed judge and they were trying to achieve different things.

The classical trainer said how one of their other pupils has recently attended a judge training seminar and in order the get the better marks accuracy was first and foremost. So if you had a transition between F&A you would get a better mark for being bang on but rushed, than later and balanced. Hard to explain over text so I don’t think I am doing it justice!
 

BethanT

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I agree with what you are saying. I don’t want to just throw it all away as though it never helped.

Equally, I’ve never felt 100% happy in these saddles. I’ve made do for the benefit of the horse. But they are a lot of money to not be 100% with.
 

sbloom

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Different ways of fitting place different factors as the most important. Giving space for a horse to lift into the saddle is great, but if it's at the cost of stability, then you've got big pressure spikes as the saddle moves which means the muscle can't function and will atrophy. There is of course a chance that there is something underlying going on, I presume you'll be at least having a back person out, I would discuss your concerns with them.
 

Orangehorse

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I wouldn't throw out the saddle just because of a dressage test, it is how you ride. I can do western in my GP saddle after all!
 

wingedhorse

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BD like to see them much more “in your hand” and higher up in the neck. I only say this as I was having lessons with the classical trainer and a grade 2 listed judge and they were trying to achieve different things.

The classical trainer said how one of their other pupils has recently attended a judge training seminar and in order the get the better marks accuracy was first and foremost. So if you had a transition between F&A you would get a better mark for being bang on but rushed, than later and balanced. Hard to explain over text so I don’t think I am doing it justice!

Your second paragraph states exactly the opposite in what BD judge training now promotes centrally, which is at low levels, way of going trumps accuracy, and is what all current trainee BD judges are being taught.

I compete to medium and am a trainee judge and I don't think there is any headset difference in overt approach between BD and classical training. Good correct flatwork way of going, in balance, and off the forehand, and accepting rein contact, in an outline, is just that.

Different trainers and approaches abound, but good correct flatwork is just that IMO. Are good and bad trainers and training of all types IMO.
 

wingedhorse

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I agree with what you are saying. I don’t want to just throw it all away as though it never helped.

Equally, I’ve never felt 100% happy in these saddles. I’ve made do for the benefit of the horse. But they are a lot of money to not be 100% with.

I think your gut is often right. And you need to be 100% happy with a saddle for you and the horse. And there are awful lot of good second hand saddles out there, if you are willing to put in the leg work.

I like a wide gullet, wider panelled, sympathetic weight distributing saddle, that allows the horse to lift and expand back when working. I like some room for horse to muscle up under saddle.

I have owned and like some of the more traditional style LM saddles, my fitter is associated with LM but less extreme.

BUT I have seen some LM disaster fittings. And I personally know 2-3 fittings where LM fitting new saddles resulted in very sore unhappy horses further down the line, and in at least one case 100% refund was given.
 
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