Another sarcoid v toothpaste thread!

[Beausmate]

Ok, I said I'd post this if something happened, well it has!

Horse is a twenty year old thoroughbred who developed his first sarcoid aged six. Several more followed and he's had the ones on his sheath, midline and inner thigh for over ten years, the ones on his chest and axilla (armpit) are more recent. They are confirmed sarcoids; one, the original nodular one on the inner thigh, was shelled around six years ago and re-grew, although it is smaller.

I'm using Sainsbury's own brand whitening toothpaste (55p per tube) with a 1450ppm fluoride content.

21st June, here's how they look.

Chest



Sheath



And on the 28th June





And today, I was going to take pictures weekly, but this was a noticeable difference.



The one on the chest started to change on the fourth day, there has been some bleeding from a couple of them.

I have been carefully picking the dried paste off before re-applying it. Horse doesn't seem worried about the application at all.

Sarcoids are developing a noticeably 'pitted' appearence.

 

[Wagtail]

Wow! That's fantastic. I too have noticed a big difference today. I didn't have my phone to take a pic though so will update my thread as soon as I can.

 

[3Beasties]

Very interesting. What did the ones on his sheath looked like when they first appeared?

My 18 year old TB has got some strange looking white spots on his sheath that have been there for a week or so, at first I just thought they were grime/dried sweat but they are definitely attached to him. They are flat at the moment but have a similar distribution to your lads ones.

 

[Beausmate]

They looked like a patch of scaly skin. The first one, which you can just make out on the inside of his hind leg in the first pic-it's just on the edge of the photo, grew on the site of a nasty cut he had and that one started as a small, grey lump. I had another horse with sarcoids at the time, but his were undamaged. There were calves on the farm though, so who knows where they came from originally, might just be one of those things.

The last two that developed also started as bald/scaly patches. My vet reckons that they older they get, the less likely they are to get new ones, although he has a couple of suspicious looking lumps under his skin.

 

[soulfull]

Great improvement How often did you apply toothpaste !

 

[Beausmate]

Great improvement How often did you apply toothpaste !

Once a day. I carefully pick off the looser bits of the hardened toothpaste first. It sticks to the sarcoid, so only comes off easily if the sarcoid is peeling away underneath.

 

[Cleo]

That's amazing, mum was reading up on toothpaste and sarcoids, and reading this has made her just do a bulk order online. Also got some thuja tablets to give one of ours who has a pesky sarcoids.

 

[Beausmate]

I tried thuja (tablets and cream), cost around £50 by the time I gave up and made several of them worse!

It did work a bit on the occult sarcoids, but I'd never use it again. When I have a go at the ones on his inner thigh, I'll put up pics of the pre-thuja sarcoids too.

 

[applecart14]

Ok, I said I'd post this if something happened, well it has!

Horse is a twenty year old thoroughbred who developed his first sarcoid aged six. Several more followed and he's had the ones on his sheath, midline and inner thigh for over ten years, the ones on his chest and axilla (armpit) are more recent. They are confirmed sarcoids; one, the original nodular one on the inner thigh, was shelled around six years ago and re-grew, although it is smaller.

I'm using Sainsbury's own brand whitening toothpaste (55p per tube) with a 1450ppm fluoride content.

21st June, here's how they look.

Chest



Sheath



And on the 28th June





And today, I was going to take pictures weekly, but this was a noticeable difference.



The one on the chest started to change on the fourth day, there has been some bleeding from a couple of them.

I have been carefully picking the dried paste off before re-applying it. Horse doesn't seem worried about the application at all.

Sarcoids are developing a noticeably 'pitted' appearence.

I do believe that toothpaste works, but any brand that contains the tiny particles that have an abrasive action on your teeth would work as the OP has found out by using Sainsbury's own brand. Theoretically you could use an abrasive like sugar, or salt (except mixed with water they would dilute). Sand maybe? I'd carry on using it and good luck to you. It just drives me mad when people think Crest Toothpaste is the only one! I don't think the flouride content matters - just the abrasive content.


This is from Wikipedia:

AbrasivesAbrasives constitute at least 50% of a typical toothpaste. These insoluble particles help remove plaque from the teeth. The removal of plaque and calculus helps minimize cavities and periodontal disease.[citation needed] Representative abrasives include particles of aluminum hydroxide (Al(OH)3), calcium carbonate (CaCO3), various calcium hydrogen phosphates, various silicas and zeolites, and hydroxyapatite (Ca5(PO4)3OH).

Abrasives, like the dental polishing agents used in dentists' offices, also cause a small amount of enamel erosion which is termed "polishing" action. Some brands contain powdered white mica, which acts as a mild abrasive, and also adds a cosmetically pleasing glittery shimmer to the paste. The polishing of teeth removes stains from tooth surfaces, but has not been shown to improve dental health over and above the effects of the removal of plaque and calculus.[2]

 

[Beausmate]

I can't see how it can be due to abrasives. I don't rub it at all, in fact I go out of my way not to rub it. If I just plonked a blob of toothpaste in my mouth, it wouldn't clean my teeth. To do that, I'd need to brush it around a bit!

I did rub thuja cream in and it only made them worse.

And if rubbing worked so well, why hasn't the one the sits under where a martingale loop goes, under the girth and is frequently rubbed, fall off?

My previous horse with sarcoids had them behind his elbows, well within range of being rubbed by the girth and guess what? They didn't fall off either! Does Liverpool cream just work because the vet rubs it on? Don't think so somehow.

It would be interesting to compare results from different strengths of toothpaste, see if stronger ones are more effective. Someone on here was using Duraphat mouthwash, I think. Wonder how they're getting on.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I don't think it has anything to do with abrasives and if you search it seems that people have used mouthwash and sprayed it on as that contains flouride. The high strength prescription toothpaste is highly recommended also.

The advice is to slather it on and to not remove any but to keep applying twice daily - I would imagine it's a combination of lack of oxygen to the sarcoid and flouride that works.

 

[Triskar]

My vet has recommended toothpaste as a first route for an occult sarcoid on my horse's face and one on his neck. He says wouldn't use Liverpool cream at this time of year anyway due to flies, and toothpaste is cheap and sometimes effective - he believes because it contains fluoride. I know that toothpaste is very drying (dries up spots on people brilliantly overnight!); it might be the fluoride or it might be the drying effect - who cares if it works without the horse being distressed!

 

[Beausmate]

Today's pics. The sarcoids are much rougher, very pitted and are also softer. The 'crust' has come off one on the sheath. It's easier to pick the hardened paste off too.

Chest..



And sheath..



I'm pleased with progress so far. There have been a few tiny blood spots, the horse is still not bothered by it all. He is a very sensitive type, so I'd know if he was!

One advantage I can see over other treatments is the lack of flies around the area. They don't like the minty freshness!

 

[soulfull]

I too disagree with the abrasive theory. I tried Colgate first and it didn't work
The one that has gone is right in the sensitive area where tummy joins top of leg ( curves area of soft skin). It is now very red and
Sore. I've had to put sudocrem on it now as its so sore. Poor lad

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Rubbing sarcoids or massaging them in any way makes them worse! I cured a sarcoid with Heel to Hoof mud fever cream (I thought at first it was a random scabby patch of skin, but it was a flat sarcoid). Took about a year of daily application. Handy to know that toothpaste works too.

 

[Beausmate]

Pics from Friday. Bit late as I couldn't upload the photos!

Horse is getting a bit touchy about me faffing. I think the heat and flies are making him generally twitchy though, as he's better to do indoors.

Not much change with this one.


Something happening here though.


Different angle, the sarcoid is lifting away, it's on a sort of stalk.


And this morning-it's virtually gone!


They seem to go in fits and starts. You think it's on the way out, but then nothing happens for a while until it drops off. I put more toothpaste over the area to keep the flies off. Horse wasn't any more worried about me doing that than he is about me just touching him on a 'normal' bit.

The others are getting smaller too, still appear to be coming off in layers. The type of sarcoid seems to dictate how they go, whether they peel, shrink or just drop off.

 

[soulfull]

Wow that's amazing . My lads are peeling off too

 

[Holly Hocks]

My girl's sarcoid dropped off today as well. I've been using Duraphat 5000 for a few weeks - not washing it off, just building up a gunky mess. I cleaned it for the first time a few days ago and was surprised at how much it had shrivelled up and was peeling away at the base. So I continued using the Duraphat and when I went to put the toothpaste on tonight, its completely gone! I only put it on once a day (and some days I forgot to even do that!)

 

[HelenS]

I tried Thuja, both cream and tablets, with limited success. I then bought Crest off Amazon having read a number of comments from others who have used it. The large sarcoid on his sheath could be tied off so having used dental floss (couldn't think of anything else at the time) I then used a couple of plaiting bands. Every day I've applied the Crest, and yesterday the big sarcoid fell off in my hand. He has a number of other flat type sarcoids and these seem to be altering as well, so I'll just keep on using the Crest and hoping.

His mum had the Liverpool cream some years ago, and whilst it worked, she was very, very sore, and the thought of putting it on his sheath and armpit just makes me cringe, so I'll try anything before I go down that route again. But if needs must, then I will, be so far I am definately seeing some improvement.

For those who may consider Crest, its not for sale in the UK now I believe, but it is in Ireland and USA. Mine came in from USA.

 

[angwynsmum]

Hi all,

my twelve year old gelding first developed sarcoids around age 6/7. First noticeable one an inch above his knee. Treated it with Liverpool cream to good effect, leaving a crusty scab behind. He didn't seem to experience much discomfort and never required sedation. I suspect due to there being less nerve endings??

However recently the slow growing ones inbetween his hind legs (on the fleshy muscle of the inner hind) have reared their ugly heads. The location obviously makes it a difficult area to treat with veterinary treatment I believe so considered the toothpaste option.

We're on day 3 and already the sarcoid has turned red and angry, today it bled. Obviously I worried and searched on here to check this is a typical reaction and part of the process. I would hate to cause my horse any suffering! Thank fully I see this is normal.

One thought though. With the sarcoid rubbing between the hind legs, would you restrict turn out to limited risk of knocking them? Any thoughts?