Another unshod hoof question - re jumping?

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SpruceRI

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A bit of a silly question maybe, but what is it that stops a horse slipping when turning at speed on grass?

For a shod horse wearing no studs, is it the fact that the shoe digs into the ground, and the fullering collects mud which helps adhesion?

For an unshod horse, is it the frog and sole that had a wide bearing surface?

Reason for asking: I have a 4yr old Welsh cob. Never been shod. My farrier says she has fantastic feet and as I do little roadwork she doesn't need shoes.

But, I want to show jump her, do XC and hunt.

So far we've done some mini SJing and walk and trot dressage. She had a fair few slippages on the days when it was raining.

She has come on a lot in terms of balance and turning with bend, not like a plank. But I don't want her to lose confidence jumping if she's going to slip all the time.

On the other hand, I don't want to put shoes on her if her grip will improve based on better training.

What's the theory here please?
 
I reckon it's the rider that does it. They wouldn't have any problems (or at least risk pulling tendons) riderless and scooting about on hard/greasy/holding ground. Put a rider on and start jumping and turning at speed and of course you'll have problems. Put shoes and studs on - problem appears to be solved but I reckon the stresses of the jarring and lack of natural hoof twist because of the studs not being immediately apparent may well lead to trouble later on.

Solution either don't ride if the ground is unsuitable and only ride on good going or really decent surfaces
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For roadwork you could try boots.
 
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Solution either don't ride if the ground is unsuitable and only ride on good going or really decent surfaces
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For roadwork you could try boots.

[/ QUOTE ] But that's not really going to help if the OP wants to show jump, hunt and XC! She can't exactly pick what the weather and going is likely to be on the day, and it would be a huge waste of entry fees if she had to pull out at the last minute!
 
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I reckon it's the rider that does it. They wouldn't have any problems (or at least risk pulling tendons) riderless and scooting about on hard/greasy/holding ground.

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Nonsense - the only injuries my mare has ever sustained have been field injuries - yes, she has pulled a tendon hooning round her icy field like a loony.

To the OP - not much help but I remember watching niece SJ at PC - she was only about 9 or 10 and the class had a lot of wee hairy natives, who were unshod behind. It was a slippy in one corner and I noticed the unshod ponies tended to lose their backends more than the shod - I noticed because it was the opposite of what I would have expected.

I think all you can do is keep going as you are as your pony may be fine and if it starts to be an issue have a chat with your farrier.
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You can get hoof boots now that have 'aggressive' patterns on their soles, a bit like mud tyres for off-road vehicles. Some of the hoof boots can be fitted with studs too. I've not tried either of these, but I do jump by TB in boots, just because he prefers it. I don't do that much jumping, and I'm quite careful of where we do jump. If you want to look at the hoof boot options a bit more, the EasyCare website is a good place to start.
 
This is an example of where a horse would need shoes to do the job we require of them. Tho I know plenty of people that hunt natives with no shoes on and my mare only ever had fronts on ! the naked hoof act like a scoop and the concave sole will ad grip. If your jumping over 3 foot and feel you might need studs then you might be best considering shoes as you can not choose what the weather is going to do and we keep horse to have fun! See how you get on tho first.

Hunting ground where I live tends to be stubble fields and long grass not sure how much difference studs would really make (but I could be wrong) + you cant use big jumping ones due to the road work
 
My youngster didn't need shoes, good feet & little road work. Then I did a bit of jumping & she went really well until she jumped clear, I let her run on a bit (rather than steadying her for the corner), back legs went & due to the dew on the grass, front legs went then both of us on the floor on our side.

She hasn't suffered anything from the fall thankfully, but she now has shoes all round because of a safety aspect. Been jumping a bit more & hunting. I'd rather spend the £80 every 6 wks than have another accident.

On the other side, I know of a horse that does XC upto 3' & is unshod behind.
 
Re how the unshod foot 'grips'. Personal experience. I've never had the bad slips riding barefoot that I used to have shod. The mare that used to do 50 miles on the road was quite 'adventurous' (once jumping from from a 4ft bank onto the road - not my idea) and also very well balanced and the only time in her life she ever had bad slips was in shoes.

I should point out we live and ride in a hilly area with a lot of slick tarmac and equally horrid clay. But at weekends we used to truck out to the SD and she could gallop happily over very bad flints.

One horse that is being transitioned to barefoot http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com used to slip all the time. Partly because her feet were awful and partly because she was very badly balanced overall.

Now she can jump a 2ft xc course (she never jumped at all until recently) and not slip at all. Neither did she complain when the take off and landings were finished with road chippings.

So to summarise. Keep them balanced in all ways not just their feet and you will probably get along just fine.
 
My mare is unshod behind. We have hunted and jumped up to 3foot xc fences and she slips no more than a shod horse. Unless you are using studs I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference
 
Interesting - thanks everyone.

Currently I'm not doing all that much with my youngster, but when I watch her out in the field she does a lot of serious slipping - followed by huge bucks - and has fallen over a couple of times!

I don't intend to allow her to do the wild skidding, slipping and 'Tom & Jerry' style, legs everywhere action under saddle! But she might!

I think shoes will be the way to go when we start show jumping and dressage on grass as they are the 2 disciplines that tend to experience the most slippage for the fact of turning sharp corners on often greasy surfaces.

She slips a lot less on the road than my mare who has shoes.... and I think would be OK hunting as it's often deep going round our way, so shoes make not a lot of difference anyway in a bog!

.... I will reconsider as time plods on ....
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I have a big horse (17.2) that has never had shoes on. I jump him at affliated level currently at discovery, most of the time on a surface, however when I have jumped on grass he never slips. On a tight turn I may feel a leg slip slightly but then it just grips so never slides completley. I am very carefull about what ground I jump on but more for the care of his legs than i am slipping. I also do XC at 1m (3ft) and never had a problem with him slipping. I have also schooled on a grass surface with no problems.

He is 7years old and he did take a while to get his balance but I would expect this of a large horse shod or not. His feet are quite concave and I believe this acts like a shovel to grip the ground.

Yes as a baby he used to charge round the field bucking and slipping over, as does my foal, but now he gallops, turns on a sixpence and off the other way with no problems.
 
If you can get hold of a copy of The Lame Horse by James Rooney, he outlines nicely how grip is achieved with a bare hoof. Trimmed correctly, the hoof is a wedge shape and will actually cut into the ground faster than a shod hoof, which has a blunt leading edge. This is on the flat, though. He doesn't mention jumps of any significant height.

Of course, this doesn't take into account individual conformation and forward rotation of the hoof during breakover (which differs between horses and style of shoeing). If you have a horse prone to landing heel heavy (for whatever reason) and with little forward rotation, then they will have more grip shod. A horse landing with more rotation/with hoof parallel to the ground (prior to breakover) will be at no disadvantage unshod. A horse trotting/on the flat is less likely to land with so much pressure on the heels, so there will be little difference between the two.

I read a paper on the foward rotation of feet in plain shod V Natural Balance shoes on different types of track this morning. Quite interesting, if you can get past the statistics!!!

I do know of a couple of horses who go out hunting with no problems unshod, so it's very much an individuality thing, although as someone else said, if you want better grip, there are some pretty good 'off-road' boots out there, now.
 
Please don't use studs - they represent a huge risk to you and your horse.

Balance is the key, and not doing handbrake turns. I jump barefoot and don't slide.

Studs pin the hoof in the ground and stop the slip - but it is the slight slip that dissipates energy, keeps the column aligned, and prevents injury to the hoof and fetlocks.
 
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