Another update on lame mare

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PiggyB

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We now have MRI results which showed thickening of the collateral (off fore) and mild navicular changes in both feet but slightly more significant in the off fore (the lame foot). Neither of these bits of info were deemed to be massively catastrophic and I breathed a sigh of relief that we may just be dealing with a tweaked ligament and a sensitive pony. Following initial feedback on the day, the MRI readings were fed back to the referring vet who then relayed them on to me...however, my vet was still incredibly frowny. Since we are trying to dispute an insurance claim, it was decided that another block would be performed to determine which of the two findings were causing the lameness.

The horse was blocked to the part of the foot associated with collateral ligament pain (don't really understand the ins and outs of this, and not sure why it wasnt done before me splashing out on an MRI). Anyway, this made very little difference, leading the vet to diagnose the navicular changes as the issue in this instance.

I feel very confused. The onset of this lameness was very sudden (over night) and the horse was (and still is) 4/10ths lame on a left circle (with off fore lameness). Pretty much sound on a straight line and similar to the right. She has been on box rest for almost 5 weeks now and this seems to have had no effect whatsoever. The only difference in the works ups from the first one to now is that she had front shoes on the first time (horse has always been barefoot but was initially diganosed with bruised soles so pads were put on to see if they made any difference).

The horse passed a 5 stage vetting and was sound on arrival. I just feel uncomfortable with the navicular diagnosis considering this, the manner of onset of the lameness and the fact that the horse was previously sound and was not subject to any more work after arrival.

It has now been suggested that the horse be turned out, with remedial shoeing if i decide to go down that route. I am also uncomfortable with this considering there is some evidence of trauma to a ligament. I have no doubt that she is going to explode if turned out, and surely, despite the fact that we may be dealing with navicular pain, this will not help the collateral situation one bit. If it isn't torn now...I feel sure that it will be before too long if I turn her out.

So basically, I am just musing...sorry, this turned out to be long! I feel uncomfortable with the diagnosis. I know I'm not a vet but it doesn't seem to fit together right. Does anyone have any thoughts? Also, does anyone have any knowledge of the nerve block that has been carried out? Is there still any chance that the collateral could be our problem here? The vet seemed to think that the navicular pain was a preferable diagnosis to the ligament, and is very negative about the prognosis of this horse either way. Feeling pretty blue :(
 
Sorry to hear this. I find it interesting as I have had a horse with a ruptured collateral ligament who was PTS as got worse and worse even with box rest. He did it eventing. My daughters other dressage boy was diagnosed with collateral ligament wear and tear with bony changes. He was a TB with long toes and under run heels who was remedially shod for counter rotated pedal bones. He had pads for bruised soles intially but I now believe it was all to do with having foot changes in general.
For lots of reasons barefoot would not work for him and he also had SI problems and suspensory issues:( so was a bit of a write off. he went catastrophically lame at 12 and was PTS.

If you can do no shoes and rehab that way I would guess you would probably do better long term. I think navicular as a diagnosis is a bit like saying "foot pain/bony changes" in general. If you can get his foot balance right and diet right you may get some good results but I "think" from what my vet told me at MRI last time "navicular" is not really a diagnosis nowadays - more of a generalised description. There are people on here who have had success in varying degrees with collateral ligament damage so I am sure you will get some more helpful replies.
 
I just feel uncomfortable with the navicular diagnosis considering this, the manner of onset of the lameness and the fact that the horse was previously sound and was not subject to any more work after arrival.
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When a horse of mine went lame with problems with his pedal bone, he went from sound one day, to extremely lame the next. But of course they can do that with ligament damage too.

Mmm, I'd be inclined to turn away to be honest.
 
Thanks for the replies!

Amymay, I was hoping to bring the horse into work after some time spent turned away. I bought her from the field. She wasn't particularly prepared for sale but felt that her low mileage and a full vetting would cover my back as much as practical. she wasn't lame when broken or ridden away. She hasn't really been ridden at all since I bought her so essentially, until box rested will have been turned away for some time already.
 
She was turned away prior to the lameness issues though. My thoughts are chuck her out until the new year and then re-assess.

I have to say - I suspect you've been royaly screwed by the people from who you bought the horse (and they probably couldn't believe their luck when she passed a 5 stage....)

I hope you come back in a few weeks / months and tell me I'm wrong. But I suspect you're not going to have a positive ending to this one and I wouldn't chuck any more money at it (apart from what's insured).
 
I think this is looking like an option, (turning away until new year) although my only concern is that I dont want to make the ligament problem any worse by allowing her freedom as the ground starts to get slippy.

I very much hope I havent been screwed. I know the people I bought this horse from well, I have known of the horse for quite some time, know the person who backed and started her. I never knew her to be lame even before I considered buying her. She was turned away for personal reasons of the sellers (not for any reason relating to the horse), and I bought her as a cheap(ish) project because my other horse had to retire quite suddenly and she was happily wasting in a field with no rider.

I think I have the worst luck in the world!
 
This is why I was so convinced I was dealing with an injury and the mild changes on the X-rays were just unfortunate accidental findings. I'm finding it really hard to digest!
 
I would guess that unless she goes potty in the field she will probably be fine turned away.

Your story is very sad for you (we have had our share of that sort of luck too) but it reinforces my view that I would never again buy a horse that has been out of work no matter the reason. It seems that even when they pass a 5 stage vetting and you know their history it is only when they are in hard work that any soundness issues really show:( I hope your story has a reasonable ending.
 
Not how sure how relevant this is but maybe worth exploring.
I know someone who bought horse that had been out aff sj and suddenly went lame with new owner.Turned out to be change of farrier who had balanced feet and this altered his way of going.
Could this be possibility :rolleyes:
 
misst said:
I would guess that unless she goes potty in the field she will probably be fine turned away.

Your story is very sad for you (we have had our share of that sort of luck too) but it reinforces my view that I would never again buy a horse that has been out of work no matter the reason. It seems that even when they pass a 5 stage vetting and you know their history it is only when they are in hard work that any soundness issues really show:( I hope your story has a reasonable ending.
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Think there's a lot of merit in this post because if the horse does have navicular/boney changes then yes the lameness would only really show up after working up to a degree it starts to get sore with excessive use, equally the boney changes could be just there and as you say not causing any problems and lame because of the ligament damage. So in this case I would try to treat both at the same time, remove the shoes, balance the feet and introduce turn out gradually, perhaps in hand first then on small area and finally in the larger area, perhaps you could give her some calmer before going for it. I feel for you, I have a horse with navicular (long story) but I have turned away barefoot and hope for improvements by the spring. Good Luck
 
Thank you for the replies. I am scratching my head like mad with this one. We blocked the side of the foot for the ligament and it didn't make any difference. This led to my vet diagnosing navicular pain, advising high heels and turning out. I'm not going to do any of those things as the information doesn't stack up to me and I am very wary of going down the route of raised heels. For a start, the bony changes are very mild, she doesn't have under run heels or poor feet, the deep digital flexor was healthy on the MRI and the horse was literally sound as a pound then BANG, very lame. I have sought a second opinion from a vet more experienced with sport type horses. In hindsight, the diagnosing vet (who is new to me following a move) seems to have little experience beyond the happy hacker. I have reverted to what I know and trust. I am convinced that there is something further to find with this horse. I plan to give her some more time in the stable with controlled exercise and then consider blocking the bursa (which the diagnosing vet was reluctant to do). It seemed healthy on the scan but I understand it is difficult to assess on MRI.

The navicular diagnosis has knocked me for six, I am in no way in denial but I just feel as though the vet doesn't really know what to do next so is handing out the 'text book' treatment for navicular despite it appearing completely unsuitable. (I don't intend this to start a barefoot debate, my problem isn't with shoes or not, it's the lack of sophistication in the advice)
 
Just thought I would post a little update on this mare.

We field rested her until the beginning of february, with regular visits from the farrier to try and address balance issues. When we sent her back up to the vets, she seemed a little improved on a hard surface test, although still lame. A few blocks were performed (coffin joint first then heel) and the lameness went with the second block, but threw up a slight lameness in the other foreleg.

X-rays were taken and steriod injected into the bursa. The vet who treated her (who hadnt previously seen x-rays but who had performed MRI) said the changes to her navicular bone were minimal, and would be described as 'insignificant' and would not 'fail' a vetting on the back of them.

The blocks performed previously suggested that the slight flair of the collateral on the MRI was not significant either.

3 vets left scratching their heads!

I had hoped in a way that this follow up would throw a separate issue up that had previously been missed, but nope, nothing else! There seem to be no 'major' issues in the foot. Granted, the lameness is of a low level but still, it is frustrating.

The vet suggested the bursa could have been traumatised when the horse had a hissy fit in the early days when the ground was hard and lameness first began. I'm hoping that the steriod into the bursa will help if this is the case.

Please everyone keep fingers crossed for us!
 
I would suggest looking at Rockley Farm if she is still lame since October.

These types of cases are their bread and butter.
 
Thanks Oberon. Rockley is definately on my radar if we don't have any luck. We have spent a lot of time and money trying to get to the bottom of the problem so far, this is the first time we have attempted any kind of treatment other than rest.

I get the feeling from a lot of people that I talk to that I am being a bit of a perfectionist. The horse is sound to all but the most sensitive of eyes on a kind surface, and 1 or 2/10ths lame on a hard surface circle (which I know is a harsh test that would upset most).
 
I know just how you feel.

I had the humiliation last month of trying to convince the vet that Obi, "really was lame yesterday" when he refused to be lame upon examination :o.

Vet gave me Danilon, fixed me with a patient look and explained I should be grateful that he is as sound as he is for his age :rolleyes:.

But you know when they're not right - and what some may consider mild soreness in the hooves can provide a whole plethora of problems throughout the body.
 
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