Another (very strong) Pony Bit question

[ponymum123]

Ok, here is my problem. My daughter is 11 years old. She has been riding 4 years. She has soft (for a young rider) hands. Pony is 13.2”, very fit and strong. Brought him 2 years ago and is ridden in a French link hanging cheek snaffle. He is very handsome and was previously used as a show pony, so ridden in a double bridle, (with a Pelham). He is a very sensitive chap and quite sharp and typically (“pony”) naughty. For flatwork he can be cheeky but goes well in the snaffle. He is also ridden with a running martingale. Now here for the problems. Out hacking - due to past rides and lack or brakes, he has been ridden in a Pelham; he has been great, but still slightly difficult to stop.

Two weeks ago we took him cross country schooling and he was so fired up and excited with very little brakes. We tried again the next day and he went bonkers. All he wanted to do was bolt away from everyone and go back to the gates. He was jumpy, stressed and to be honest completely out of control. No bucking just flat out gallop/bolt, even away from the other horses. An older rider tried him and even she said he was impossible, apparently he was “holding” the bit between his teeth, turned and just bolted back to the gate. The whole session was draining and my daughter was exhausted physically and mentally. I am so worried as this behaviour was really out of character for him. Yes, he tends to want to go fast and brakes have been an issue, but he just seemed to “snap”. My biggest worry is the bit is just too strong or painful for him and he really got upset, he looked scared and that is the last thing in the world I would ever want to do to any pony. So we stopped.

Jumping in an arena – he gets very excited and strong and my daughter is having difficulty in slowing him down. She jumps in the snaffle and he has been ok –ish. Last weekend, for the first time, he shoved his head up in the air and just flew around all over the place like a tank, flying past the jumps and getting really stressed and fired up. When he jumps his ears are forward, he clears them easy. He just goes towards a jump with such enthusiasm and speed, that my daughter has zero control.

Bits tried – tom thumb – no difference
Cherry roller – no difference.

I don’t want a “stronger” bit, just the right bit! If anything, I think we need to look at something a lot less severe than the Pelham. I honestly believe it either hurt him or frightened him. Whether he has bad memories of this bit from his past or not I don’t know.

My daughter has done lots and lots of schooling and flatwork, walk trot transitions, walking and trotting over poles, controlling his paces etc. He just does not want to trot or even engage in a steady canter over jumps.

I just thought – for the past 3 months we have given him a daily calmer in his feed as he was getting pretty hot at shows. His teeth are checked very regularly and the dentist said he has great teeth and gums.

Any help or suggestion would be gratefully accepted.

 

[tinkandlily]

Hi, these bits are goodfor ponies that are to strong in a snaffle, but don't need a pelham, sometimes a stronger bit can make the situation worse, i would also suggest putting a flash or grakle noseband on, to stop the pony messing with the bit and grabbing it. I would also look at what your feeding him, make he's not getting to much high energy food for what he's doing.

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[texel]

Just a few questions:

1. how long have you owned the pony ?
2. What is he fed on?
3. Is he stabled ?
4. What was he like when your daughter tried him before you bought him?

 

[palomino698]

You say his teeth have been done regularly - but it may be worth having another experienced equine dental technician to look at him. We had a wonderful old 13.2 a few years ago who sounds quite similar, he had been a show pony before going on to WHP and tetrathlon, a brilliant jumper but absolutely no inclination to allow the rider to dictate his speed into a jump. He detested gridwork, trotting poles, anything that slowed him down. He had been looked after with great care by a knowledgeable and committed family and yard, but his teeth had always been 'done' by their vet, and what their vet did was just rasp regularly. They also said he didn't much like hay...

We had our trusted EDT do him when our others were due, 3 months after we bought him. He was found to have a 'wave mouth', he had missing teeth whose opposing teeth were causing ulcers all over his gums, and his lower jaw was out of alignment, having gone into spasm. It took a couple of hours to treat him that first time, with frequent attention for some time afterwards.

An immediate effect was that from the next night, his hay consumption literally DOUBLED (he was a fine TB pony who never held weight anyway). The other, which we noticed in a lesson five days later, was that his jaw was now sufficiently comfortable - and mobile - that he could now cross his jaw and have even more fun with his then very small (though luckily brave) 10 year old rider!

She had the rest of the winter without competing whilst we tried various options, and finally found for show jumping a grackle with a waterford dutch gag was something that could influence his speed without him throwing a total hissy fit and bombing past most of the jumps. Also we often used a Cheltenham gag for cross-country. He hacked and did flatwork in a snaffle and drop noseband. hunted in the dutch gag or sometimes a pelham, but always behaved immaculately well out hunting. Hated the tom thumb with sweet iron mouthpiece, kimblewick, globe pelham and nathe dutch gag, and could always wiggle a flash noseband loose!

What is he being fed? If he's having a mix, you could find nuts will be far less likely to fizz him up. D&H Pasture Mix was rocket fuel to our old boy - he evented all summer and hunted all winter just on Happy Hoof and Speedibeet, and looked great.

 

[Boysy]

Have you had the usual checks of back and saddle, he could be running away from pain? If he gets his jumping over and done with asap then it won't hurt for so long..........

 

[kirstyl]

Poor you, sounds like a scarey experience for your daughter and you. I second OPs re teeth, shouldn't be so, but it really is worth getting teeth/back checked again by a different specialist, particularly if your pony is behaving differently from the norm. Does your daughter have a riding instructor that you and her trust? In your position I would like to work on the basics again and build up confidence in pony and rider before considering a different bit

 

[Jazzaria]

Try an army reversible!!!!!

...Or a Liverpool Driving Bit


Pony won't be going far with one of those in xxxxxxxxxx

 

[jumpingmum]

Obviously its a bit difficult to suggest a bit without seeing pony and rider together but I do dislike seeing Pelhams of ponies. Why not try a flash noseband and a dutch gag (bubble bit as my daughter calls it) which works on poll pressure more with less immediate pain from a curb chain.

This worked for my son out hunting, also backs were mentioned, always worth checking, sounds strange behaviour. I have a dartmoor that runs through the bit when held strongly in a severe bit but will trot and canter round very calmly with my 6 year old on a loopy rein. Good luck, let us all know how you get on.

 

[Kokopelli]

Teeth, back and saddle checked? He sound slike he is in pain, if he normally enjoys jumping but won't jump. Before you bit him up I would definatly get him checked over.

A wilky snaffle is good for strong ponies, if he is putting his head up even with a martingale on I would try a bib martingale, or if she doesn't jump very big (over 2ft) try a standing martingale.

Are these upsets recent? Has his routine or food change din anyway since he's been misbehaving? What is he like to lunge?

 

[texel]

This is a classic case of a ‘pony living life in the fast lane’ and over his lifetime has been taught to behave in this seemingly wild and crazy fashion by humans.

All equines push into pain, this is instinctive. In the wild if a predator leapt onto a horse and he pulled away there would be a risk of having his stomach torn open, so horses will push into pain to lessen the damage. This is what happens with bit usage – rider pulls - horse pushes into the pain; rider changes the bit adds flash noseband and pulls to stop – horse pushes even harder. Rider builds up a vast collection of bits, spends a fortune and uses all ‘calming supplements’ available on the planet – to no avail. Pulling on both reins has no effect and in most cases will make the situation worse. Horses in this state do not have a lateral mouth and become dangerous over time.

Horses as you know will flee from a frightening situation. Equines need time to get used to the activities we require them to do. In many cases they are not introduced to new situations carefully and you end up with a seemingly uncontrollable pony. I see is all of the time – I also own nutcase! (he isn’t now but he was very similar to your pony).

If you want a long term solution don’t use a ‘quick fix’ and the harsher bits are not the answer. You will eventually run out of bits to try and funds to buy them !!! Bits cause pain and interference with the breathing system and also cause horses to choke on their tongue.

Once you have ruled out any physical issues you have to WORK ON THE PONY’S MIND to break this habit. This takes time and patience. You have to help the pony to break the link between being ridden in certain situations and tanking off and becoming uncontrollable. His mind is in constant flight mode and he is running on adrenalin. You do this by starting again with your pony and you must be prepared for total abstinence from competitions etc for a good number of months and you replace this with a calm and sedate re-training programme using very basic equipment; groundwork exercises, long reining etc.

You can send me an email if you would like further assistance.