Another 'when to call it a day' advice and opinions please.

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Brandy

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My old horse is 30. He is an ex polo pony, very high mileage and it is a miracle that he is still here at all. He is generally in good health. He is stiff behind but still enjoys life. He has always been a lively horse, and though mooching around the field looks old, he still hoons around with his mate on a regular basis, and I am not able to walk him out in hand on grass even with a bridle on, due to his behaviour! The vet has told me to ride him instead - the exercise helps with the stiffness and also keeps him happy in his head.

He is one bute a day.

Second to last farrier visit, he struggled with his hind legs - he is still shod all round. His feet have never been great and I don't want to put him through having his shoes off at his age. So, next farrier visit I gave him one bute for breakfast, and he was fine to be shod. He normally has one at night only.

For several years I have been very careful with him. He really does very very little these days, but I stopped trottong on roads and hard ground, and he is allowed a 'mincy' canter if the ground is good only. Not a very long canter.

He jogs everywhere under saddle.

He eats well, and apart from muscle wastage over his withers (which he had 12 years ago when I got him!) is in good shape for his age.

Yesterday evening he was very lame on off fore. No heat, no swelling, no wound, nothing. But pointing foot. This is the leg that he will go lame on if any. I think he has probably run about the field and done to much. His tendons had been fired when I got him. Three years ago a similar thing happened and he was rested, turned out in small paddock and stabled at night and after about three months, got over it and has been fine since.

Sooooo, I have spoken to the vet. They have advised me to double his bute and they will come out monday if no improvement.

He will not be going into the vets for investigations. (he doesn't travel well since a head injury)

Its just another of those things that bring s the inevitable question to the forefront of my mind again.

Sorry very long waffley post. Any advice from those who have had oldies pts but not for emergency reasons?
 
I haven't been through this but is always in my mind as I have an older pony with a SDFT injury that just won't heal.

If he seems in good nick for his age, and given that we're going into the best part of the year weatherwise, I would give him a couple of months to rest the leg and see what happens. If he's still struggling as autumn approaches then think again.

Or if he goes downhill mentally before then, as others have said, they often seem to tell their owners when they've had enough.

xxx
 
Keep going with the bute until Monday, and see what the vet says.
If his pain can be managed and he's perfectly happy in the field then persevere with the same routine you tried last time. If he isn't happy or the bute is having side effects or isn't dealing with the pain, I'd say it's time to say the hardest goodbye.
 
Is it worth getting your farrier out to check for an abcess? A severe sudden lameness with no heat/swelling elsewhere could well be.....

My friend had a old mare whose weight didn't pick up last summer. She said she'd give her the summer and then have her PTS before winter..... She booked it, it annoyingly got cancelled and rebooked for following week and sadly the mare collapsed by a gate and couldn't get up that weekend. So sad and couldn't have been predicted.
 
Maybe this will help:

Yesterday I picked up a little pony from her yard, she was brushed and groomed as though ready for a show, standing eating a haynet and she called to the lorry as it pulled in. She loves travelling! We put her boots on and loaded her onto the lorry, she nearly dragged her owner up the ramp, so keen was she to get in. She travelled quietly for the 35 minutes it took for me to drive her to where she did her first pony club rally nearly 20 years ago, she's been with her owner that long. We were early so parked up outside the gates and had a quick fag and a brew and then a young man came out and introduced himself to us and told us where to park inside. We moved the lorry, dropped the ramp and I asked whether the pony's owner wanted a few minutes with her but she said that no, she said her goodbyes earlier and wanted this to be a confident time for the pony. I unloaded the pony and we took her boots off and handed her leadrope over to the nice young man, together with a bowl of feed for her.

She walked happily off round the corner with him whilst we walked over the the house. Within two minutes there was a loud bang and we all flinched. We handed over our fifty quid. Five minutes later the nice young man came back, he'd already put her lead rope and bowl back in the lorry and had come to ask if we wanted to see her. We said no thank you, better to remember her as she was. Then we shut the ramp - I was glad to see she'd had several mouthfuls of her feed - and drove away through the parkland watching the lambs playing in gangs and feeling that we'd all done the best we could.

She didn't look ill, she'd probably have gone through a sale ok ("bit skinny but we can feed it up" sort of thing) but her owner had had her for two decades and knew that whilst she could perk up for exciting things like travelling she was steadily losing condition and spending more and more time depressed. The vets bill was into the 000's and the only answer was that she was old and in mild pain most of the time, with severe pain on occasion. Nothing could be done, except what we did, other than to leave her in the field becoming more miserable until whatever was causing the chronic pain became acute and killed her, or she effectively starved to death.

I think her owner made a brave decision, but absolutely the right one. They'd hoped and planned to keep her for another ten years or more, it wasn't through lack of love or facilities that she was pts. The vets agreed and had already offered to come out to euthanase but in the end the way she went was right for her - happily getting her last ride in a posh lorry and returning to where her career as a star pony club pony began.

At end of the day - for that is what it is for the animal - it's a very hard decision to make but provided you handle it with calmness and confidence for the animal's sake it is better IMHO to pts a month too soon than a day too late. If your old boy is still happy and bouncing and will happily live in a small paddock so he can't hoon about too much then as you say there is no urgency, BUT if his "treatment" means he's unhappy then when ever you decide will be the right time. He will know no different, just like the little pony we said goodbye to yesterday.

btw, if you haven't already tried it I have my old and dodgy boy on homeopathic Arnica, Ruta Grav and Rhus Tox. I'm aware there's no reasonable argument for it but he can't tell whether he's been fed it in his feed or not but I can tell his body has noticed because the poor old sausage can get up and down that much more easily.
 
I really wouldnt worry about the issue of upping your horse's bute if need be to keep him comfortable. If the lameness subsides and he is generally happy and healthy and you are able to keep him pottering about then that is great. I had my "love of a livetime" horse until she was 35. At 25 people were telling me to have her put down because she was old but I moved yards to stop the bitching. She went hunting aged 30! and someone said "she's lovely she WILL(!) make a lovely hunter" not knowing her age. At 35 she was having trouble getting up after lying down and after this happened several times and she fell over on getting up, I knew then that the time was right to let her go - as she would only get worse and get stuck down or injure herself if she wobbled and fell back down.
Hope you get a few more years out of him if it suits you both but whatever you decide it sounds like you have been a fabulous owner and done him proud xx
 
Thanks for your replies, I always expect harsh replies on here so am somewhat reassured that I am not putting him through too much.

Galaxy - this is a good point and he has been prone to abcesses before, but normally I can tell - either they erupt out of the coronet band area or I can see an area on the sole. I will keep it in mind though

Thanks everyone. Its horrid isn;t it when they get old.
 
Congratulations on keeping him fit and healthy. It does sound as if it may be an abcess.

All the horses here are unshod, even the oldies who arrive with shoes. If you can find a good natural trim farrier the older horses actually do much better without shoes. It allows them to move in a way that's more comfortable for them - many have problems with arthritis and additional weight is not helpful. He may be a bit foot sore for a few days but at this time of year when the ground is soft, it shuldn't pose too much of a problem.

We have always found that the horse tells you when he's had enough and it's time to go. If he is enjoying life then he isn't ready to be terminated!
 
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hi!

i know how you feel! i had my old pony put down 2 months ago now at 31. she was very much like yours- looked a bit ropey sometimes but who wouldn't at that age! she too had a very hard and competive ridden life. she was initally happy for years retired out to the field and uo until the day she was pts she always ate and drank okay. i made the decsion as a few months before she was put down she got a virus. she was treated with anti b's and all was well. then she started sweating randomly, vet diagnosed cushings (which i always kinda knew anyway). then next she got a massive massive heamatoma. at this point i decided to turn her out on her own as didnt think it was fair she was getting pushed about and possibly kicked hence the heamatoma. i then had to get it drained twice,both times she had to be sedated which took its toll on her. then a few days before i had her pts her breathing sounded a bit heavy, but nothing untoward. then i came up one morning and she was standing at the back of her stable with her head lowered breathing heavily. she ALWAYS greeted me over the stable door without fail in the 15 yrs i had her and thats when i decided she'd had enough and called the vet and had her pts that morning. she didnt once move from the back of her stable and when i removed her rugs she had heave lines. i decided that all these little things had started to add up and at 31 it was probably taking its toll on her. it was sad as just before i rang the vet i went into the stable with a carrot and held it out to her and asked her to give me a sign as to what she wants to do. she wouldnt take the carrot and didnt move. so i took that as my sign to call the vet then and there.
honestly honestly- you will know!!! oh and mine had bute from 27 onwards- just to make life a bit easier- really wouldnt worry about this if it keeps them happy!
 
Jemima - ah, reading at work so skipped through your post as would find it upsetting - not becuase it was bad but you know how it is. I have made the plans and the vets know what I want when the time comes. Thanks for the tips of the remedies will have a look online.

I wish I had tried him shoesless when he was younger, I just worry as he is very sore without shoes and think it would add unecessary discomfort to his life - don't get me wrong my other two are shoeless, I just don;t think it is for him at his age.

Thanks for your replies everyone, it really does help. xx
 
I had my aged ( 26yrs ) TB gelding PTS before the winter as I knew he wouldn't cope through another winter. I knew he was getting fed up with life as was becoming very grumpy which was totally out of character and worst of all he was looking like a hatrack and I was worried incase we got reported. I'd retired him at the age of 11 through lameness so he's had a long retirement beforehand.

I think you'll know when the time is right, they have a way of telling you.
 
Agree with the above, he will tell you when his time is up. I had my old lad PTS 2 months ago, nothing obviously physically wrong with him but he stopped eating 2 weeks beforehand and steadily lost condition. Vet came back with nothing but a heart murmur, but my old boy had made it very clear to me that he had had enough. It was the hardest decision of my life but the right thing to do by him, he died quickly and peacefully in his own field on a nice sunny day,felt no pain and went before he started to suffer.
 
I have had two similar situations with my arthritic, horrendously bent-legged 16 year old retiree and both turned out to be false alarms, thank God (pus in the foot).

If I were you I wouldn't do anything drastic until something relatively minor has been ruled out, just in case, but 30 is a very good age if it's the worst case scenario.

It's a horrible situation to be in.
 
I think if he gets an abcess that comes out through the sole it is maybe due to having trodden on something - I have seen a blackish mark a couple of times and that is where it bursts out.

Hmm. Will keep you all posted, thank you for your comments.
 
Sorry, but I just don't get the whole put to sleep thing. I mean fair enough put them out of their misery and give them whatever pain killers you can and dont give treatments just to drag it out, but really is it any humans decision when to end it? I know I wont be making that decision for any of my animals.
 
We have used magnet boots very successfully on arthritic horses - almost miraculously in one case.
I'm another who thinks that the horse will tell you when it has had enough but in some cases it is better to make the decision yourself.
We have done this for 2 old ladies, in both cases so as not to put them through another winter on our exposed wet and windy hill, where the mud can get very deep and holding (very tiring for the elderly). We were expecting to have to do it again last autumn but fortunately she picked up over the summer and the vet then told us that he could find nothing wrong with her - thank goodness.
RDO - so will you wait until a lion/wolf eats your horse? - that is what would happen in the wild.
Horses rarely die naturally by going to sleep peacefully in the field. They certainly don't die of arthritis, any more than a person does but the person can be given a wheelchair to get around in (although still in great pain).
 
Pearlsasinger said:
RDO - so will you wait until a lion/wolf eats your horse? - that is what would happen in the wild.
Horses rarely die naturally by going to sleep peacefully in the field. They certainly don't die of arthritis, any more than a person does but the person can be given a wheelchair to get around in (although still in great pain).
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Good points i cant speak to the animals and get their opinion so cant know how they feel on the subject. All I know is a very good human friend of mine who has crippling arthritis has never a day in his life wanted to die although he is in a lot of pain every day. He has a full happy life and does his best to enjoy everything he can get from it.
 
I really don't want to hijack this thread so will just say that I wasn't suggesting that people with arthritis want to die - if they did they could do something about it.
What I was saying was that people can get around in wheel chairs, horses can't so they may well be crippled by the pain and stiffness and almost completely immobile but they will not die naturally. IMO it would be inhumane to keep a horse alive in this condition.
 
RDO said:
Sorry, but I just don't get the whole put to sleep thing. I mean fair enough put them out of their misery and give them whatever pain killers you can and dont give treatments just to drag it out, but really is it any humans decision when to end it? I know I wont be making that decision for any of my animals.
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So glad you said this - I totally agree. I have a 20 year old TB who was very lame and lost condition but I couldn't have her destroyed (yes, that is a harsh word but I think the reality), She's now better than ever through luck and devotion of a friend of mine who looks after her. If my friend was ill or in pain I wouldn't have them shot so why would I do it to my horse?
 
I had my retired girl put to sleep in October last year. She was only around 16 (had her for 5 or 6 years) and she already had some arthritis in one of her knees when we bought her. After a few years, if that, of gentle occasional hacking she had to be retired and then lived a happy retirement on a bute a day and cortaflex.

Although she looked extremely stiff in trot towards the end, she still charged about the field sometimes and was in relatively good condition. She also had some extremely large melanomas under her tail. We got the vet out a few months before who said "knees don't get larger than this" and we knew then that we couldn't put her through this past winter. I would never have forgiven myself if she'd fallen in the snow/ice and not been able to get up (she lived out 24/7 and hated stables).

We picked the date and time and I KNEW it was the right thing to do on the morning it was set to happen. I went outside and the other 3 were grazing happily at the top of field whilst Inca was stood alone in the paddock with her head down. I gave her a good groom and lots of treats, let her have the best grass and a cuddle and then that was that. I won't forget it because obviously it's not a nice experience, but I can hold my head high and say that she didn't suffer but still had many years of happy retirement and enjoyed her last summer.

People always say it but I honestly believe that you'll know when it's right.

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Its a fact of life that horses have to be able to stand up and move around in order to live a normal life - my point about whenis the right time to put to sleep is that I do not want it to get to the stage where my horse can;t stand before making that decision. That in my mind is too late and I would have done my horse a disservice by letting it get to that stage. I once went to an ILPH lecture and their opinion was that it is better too early than a day too late and I have to say I agree. If my horse was limping happily around the field then yes he would be like the firned mention, crippled with arthritis and making the most of life. If he is miserable, and in pain then no.

Anyway, I am happy to report that my horse is much improved after these last days of being confined to a small field and some extra bute. He normally has one bute a day anyway. Obviously I realise that more bute would make him seem better so I backed off with it today and he is still lame but not anythign like he was on thursday and friday.

I spoke to my vet this morning who advised me to carry on as I was, I was already doing what she would have advised anyway.

Thanks for all of the positive comments. xx
 
Glad to hear your oldie is improving!
If it helps, I think you'll know when the time is right. My old boy was similar to yours - he was retired, but nobody thought to tell him that! He had arthritis in one leg and was on bute for many years. Sadly, one winter he started to have trouble getting up. As one of his most favourite things was to have a good roll in the muddiest possible place, then this situation was horrible for him and it was upsetting to see him struggle. So, the decision made itself really - I gave him the summer and had him PTS at the start of autumn. I totally agree with the view better too early than a day too late.

Sounds like you're doing a grand job and that you have a supportive vet. I promise you, you'll know.
 
millreef said:
So glad you said this - I totally agree. I have a 20 year old TB who was very lame and lost condition but I couldn't have her destroyed (yes, that is a harsh word but I think the reality), She's now better than ever through luck and devotion of a friend of mine who looks after her. If my friend was ill or in pain I wouldn't have them shot so why would I do it to my horse?
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I agree. I would never have a horse put down unless they obviously needed to be due to humane reasons. By this I mean things such as compound fractures, severe grass sickness with no chance of recovery, or any other condition which meant the horse was in unbearable pain. Horses can actually live quite a happy life with moderate pain, just as humans can. I think if you gave them the choice, death or aching joints, they'd tell you. :)
 
There's many things worse than a quick death. IMO most horses can cope with pain very well. How many times do you hear of a horse with a fairly major problem which would surely be causing it pain, yet they have carried on working for months. Horses are generous and genuine creatures, they will put up with a lot before saying they've had enough. So if they are 'screaming' at you that they've had enough, then they have, and it's their time. Broken leg or no.

OP i'm glad your oldie is picking up. I wouldn't rush into such a big decision, so some time to see how he improves is not a bad thing. But i'm glad that you are not considering letting him suffer long term if it comes to it, you are a caring and selfless owner. Keep us updated!
 
Thanks I will keep you updated. We will see how he goes, hes not completely ok but much improved. We will see how he goes for the summer.
 
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