Another yard dilemma....

Traks

Traks

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I'm a bit stuck as to what to do with our current yard set up, there are multiple factors to consider so it's really not straightforward! Please bear with and thanks for reading!

We are at a full livery yard (meant to be everything but riding), been there a year. Facilities are great, including floodlights on the area, I have a 10yr old with her pony and I have an ex racer.. so she really benefits from this riding after school in winter. The current yard is a very busy yard, the girls who run it are lovely but so busy. On the plus side they have massively helped my daughter, her confidence has soared over the year with her riding after a bad experience, she helps out, has mini lessons and just adores it. For those reasons alone I am loathed to move as its been perfect for her, and for me to an extent.

The downsides are we have little turnout over winter, they go out maybe 3 days a week for up to about 4 or 5 hours max. Some days not at all, they go on the horsewalker or are loose in the arena twice a day on those days, plus we ride 4 or so days a week too. Now my ex racer really isn't too bothered, he's used to being in a lot with his racing and is quite happy to be out for 2 or 3 hours then come back in. My daughter's pony is obviously different and would be out all the time if she could! It does get me down though, I would much rather them be out every day. They are a bit fresh unsurprisingly over winter. Come summer they will be out at night and in for part of the day...not enough land to be out all the time sadly.

So things have recently changed, our pony has just been diagnosed with hock arthritis (this week, waiting on injections for it) and is definitely more unhappy being in more, she's more grumpy in the stable etc. And my boy was diagnosed with ulcers in November, had a course of treatment and is now clear (despite having minimal turnout!) but he has also got some SI joint issues which have been medicated now. So, I feel for their benefit they need more turnout.

Too add to the mix, the yard is cutting corners big time....for full livery they no longer rug change, pick out feet and we have been asked to make our own feeds up and do our haynets. We are also having to turnout or bring in if we want them out or they tend to be left in. The girls are often out competing all day so nobody around so basically, we are doing them a favour. There is also rumblings of a price increase...and we have little to no grazing in summer too. We have also lost a load of hacking as the neighbours have refused to let us go onto their land over winter.

It sounds dreadful as I write this I know, but there are literally NO other full livery options with the facilities we have within a 30 min drive. Plus my daughter would literally hate me forever if we moved...she loves it there and I worry we won't have the support we get anywhere else. Although she is old enough to understand the need for them to be out more etc etc. If it was just me, then obviously I would move.

I was contemplating contacting our old yard which was actually really good, but it was SO quiet and no company really, which didn't work for us 2 years ago. I have my own horse now so that is something, but she loves being with the yard girls and riding with them. YO would probably evict me on the spot if she knew I was considering going because she has a thing about loyalty...you can't really talk to her she's a tricky customer.

Argh its just so tricky!! Help!
 
Is you daughter part of pony club or a local riding club? You might be able to find someone who is looking to take on 1 or 2 liveries on a private yard and then your daughter could/might have friends to ride with too? You might need to think about a freelancer to help when you aren't able to do jobs etc.

Just a thought.
 
dorsetladette said:
Is you daughter part of pony club or a local riding club? You might be able to find someone who is looking to take on 1 or 2 liveries on a private yard and then your daughter could/might have friends to ride with too? You might need to think about a freelancer to help when you aren't able to do jobs etc.

Just a thought.
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Yes she is in pony club, we just have never found a group or rally as such that suits her, either seems to be very young kids or teenagers who want to jump everything...and that's not her.
 
asmp said:
I wouldn’t be impressed if I was paying for full livery and had to do turnout, make up hay nets, etc. Sounds more like part livery.
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It is, but basically it ensures our horses are properly looked after, on the busy days I feel they are bit overlooked so this way I know they are ok.

They are contemplating putting up charges or making us pay what we currently pay but for less services...so we pay our current rate but they only do hays in, feeds in...which to me sounds like assisted DIY. If this happens then I will have no choice but to move!
 
Kaylum said:
What do they actually do? When we did full livery we did everything including cleaning tack and exercising. Maybe we were gold standard but that is full livery in my eyes.

If they don't have the staff they shouldn't be offering full livery.
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Good question....the livery really supplements the rest of the business and gives them more income. And it shows really. They put in feeds, top up haynets if we are not there, muck out and skip out. If we put them out they will bring in usually, not always!! We do get ad lib hay included which is a bonus and bedding...which isn't really the cleanest as they skip out rather than full muck outs.

If I wasn't able to get there every day then yes, they would do everything in our absence...but its got to the point where I feel I have to go up to make sure everything is done.
 
You say there are no other full livery yards locally but are there yards that offer services which could essentially add up to a full livery package? To me it sounds as though they aren't giving you the service you pay for, not to mention the lack of turnout which no longer suits your horses. On the latter, perhaps your daughter will understand if she sees that it is for her pony's good to move somewhere with more turnout, and if he is a bit less excitable thanks to being out more. I wouldn't exclude the possibility of her making friends and having support elsewhere. Even on our tiny yard, the two teenage girls have sweetly taken the 7 year old under their wings, and play around with her and her pony.
 
Abacus said:
You say there are no other full livery yards locally but are there yards that offer services which could essentially add up to a full livery package? To me it sounds as though they aren't giving you the service you pay for, not to mention the lack of turnout which no longer suits your horses. On the latter, perhaps your daughter will understand if she sees that it is for her pony's good to move somewhere with more turnout, and if he is a bit less excitable thanks to being out more. I wouldn't exclude the possibility of her making friends and having support elsewhere. Even on our tiny yard, the two teenage girls have sweetly taken the 7 year old under their wings, and play around with her and her pony.
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Sadly not, there is one DIY yard within about a 15 min drive and they are pure DIY, they don't offer services. But I suppose that is an option. It's only because I work almost full time an hour away that we really need morning services, Id do more myself (and have been!).

I've contacted our old yard to get an idea of charges now...
 
Bobthecob15 said:
Good question....the livery really supplements the rest of the business and gives them more income. And it shows really. They put in feeds, top up haynets if we are not there, muck out and skip out. If we put them out they will bring in usually, not always!! We do get ad lib hay included which is a bonus and bedding...which isn't really the cleanest as they skip out rather than full muck outs.

If I wasn't able to get there every day then yes, they would do everything in our absence...but its got to the point where I feel I have to go up to make sure everything is done.
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Put aside what the livery is described as for the moment and look at what works for you and what doesn’t.

If it is near to you (so you can keep an eye on things) and your daughter loves it there then these are big pluses.
If you put them out but they are unreliable on bringing them in then their turnout could regularly be for most of the day.

As long as you can rely on them to care for the horses if you are away or if you text to say you can’t get back down then I would not necessarily overthink it.

If moving is going to mean an hour round trip just to get to the horses and upset your daughter then you might find it easier to accept the odd niggle.
 
I understand that it must be hard to feel like you're disappointing your daughter, but what you're currently teaching her is that her desire for entertainment (from her yard friends and the nice facilities) is more important than her pony's welfare. That sort of limited turnout scenario can work for people who have horses in full work, but it's really not appropriate for arthritic ponies in limited work. The ulcers are quite possibly also related. If there are no yards within the area with better turnout, there's very little you can do. If there are better options for the horses, with fewer / lesser facilities - well, that's what you're choosing to prioritise.

Whether you're prepared to tolerate price increases or the questionable service / unreliablitiy is probably something only you can answer. The poor turnout would be the deal breaker for me.

Small private yards often go by word of mouth, or a reliable freelancer on an otherwise DIY yard might be an alternative solution.
 
Fred66 said:
Put aside what the livery is described as for the moment and look at what works for you and what doesn’t.

If it is near to you (so you can keep an eye on things) and your daughter loves it there then these are big pluses.
If you put them out but they are unreliable on bringing them in then their turnout could regularly be for most of the day.

As long as you can rely on them to care for the horses if you are away or if you text to say you can’t get back down then I would not necessarily overthink it.

If moving is going to mean an hour round trip just to get to the horses and upset your daughter then you might find it easier to accept the odd niggle.
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Thank you. It’s such a tricky balance.
They were absolutely horrendous to come in today, they were out for almost 5 hours which was clearly too long with no hay in the field, they bolted down the track back to the yard 🤦🏻‍♀️ 3rd time this week they have been difficult to lead in after an afternoon out. They haven’t enough to eat out there which is sending them crazy, particularly the TB. I’ll ask again for them to go out for only 2 or 3hrs but it’s getting to the point we can’t lead them in safely now.

I’m not sure if being out more would actually help at this point!! Perhaps if they had more grass or some hay? Ugh!!!
 
I think you need to ask for a written contract as to what's included in your livery. This might shake them up a bit to getting things in order.
 
What is it that most bothers you?

Is it the lack of turnout or the lack of service? IF money is no object you could pay for a morning groom to lunge plus do feeds, haynets, turnout. It sounds great for your daughter and you could possibly make it work.

Unless you are seriously underpaying I think the yard is taking the piss and you're probably better on DIY plus services. But no guarantee it'll be a fit for your daughter.
 
For the time being I would stay put. But I would be looking for alternative yards and not just your old yard. Staying put gives you time to really search and check places out, maybe a friend will know of places you don't so you can investigate. This also gives you time to talk your daughter round to moving. I'd certainly be wanting to be elsewhere for next winter but at the moment you have the luxury of time to plan and search. The current set up could be better but tbh a few weeks or months of having to do haynets etc is nothing in the lifetime of horse ownership and knowing you are going to leave at some point makes it put up with able. I think you need to win your daughter round to avoid upsets. And make sure you don't move and find it to be worse. A horse standing in deep mud all winter does it no favours. At least yours have a horsewlkrr and school for exercise as well as being ridden. It's more than a lot get in winter.
 
Thanks everyone, I’m going to have a chat with the YO of our previous yard, they are currently full but anticipate spaces in the spring, we’ve not been there for a couple of years so the setup may have changed a bit. Like you say it gives me time to see what else is out there. They have daily turnout all year round, it’s higher ground so doesn’t really get too wet and they hay in the fields in the worst of winter…I also trust them a lot, we were very happy there. Only reason we left was it was so quiet and we never saw a soul and we really wanted company. They have different liveries now so will find out time they come up etc

I do know there is nowhere else unfortunately within a 30 min drive, livery yards are few and far between but I will keep my ears peeled for any private yards and may investigate the DIY option with a freelance…I’m a bit reluctant though as it’s hard to get people in our area.

Thanks for all your advice x
 
I'm sorry but the welfare of the horses comes first for me so I would move and get some freelance help. If you offered regular work that might be more attractive than just the odd day - or you might find someone on your old DIY yard who would be happy to do one end of the day for you in exchange for the other?

The insult to me is being asked to pay for full livery and then not getting it - not picking out feet for heaven's sake!! No amount of facilities would be worth the health of my horses I am afraid. And, I agree, children have to learn hard lessons.
 
Are there other riding clubs or pony clubs in the area or even just outside the area that you could try? That way it would hopefully give your daughter people to ride with (especially if you're happy to box places) if you do move to a quieter yard.
 
A few years ago my daughter had a lovely pony on loan at a very quiet yard, but was often reluctant to go and ride as there was nobody else to ride with. There was access to a school and one hacking route she could access, if I went with her on foot, but despite the pony being very good she was often reluctant to ride apart from when she had a weekly lesson. For her the social side of riding, was as important as the actual riding. So I totally understand your concerns about your daughter. I visited a yard this week to see if this might be suitable to move to in the future, which was lovely but from DD's perspective would have again been too quiet. Equally I appreciate your concerns about the lack of turnout and full livery that isn't really full livery. I agree that exploring options while you remain where you are sounds sensible. It isn't easy when you are trying to meet the differing needs of yourself, your horses and your daughter.
 
Waxwing said:
A few years ago my daughter had a lovely pony on loan at a very quiet yard, but was often reluctant to go and ride as there was nobody else to ride with. There was access to a school and one hacking route she could access, if I went with her on foot, but despite the pony being very good she was often reluctant to ride apart from when she had a weekly lesson. For her the social side of riding, was as important as the actual riding. So I totally understand your concerns about your daughter. I visited a yard this week to see if this might be suitable to move to in the future, which was lovely but from DD's perspective would have again been too quiet. Equally I appreciate your concerns about the lack of turnout and full livery that isn't really full livery. I agree that exploring options while you remain where you are sounds sensible. It isn't easy when you are trying to meet the differing needs of yourself, your horses and your daughter.
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Absolutely, and this is the reason we left the previous yard. But I'll see what the situation is like there now, my daughter is 2 years older, I now have a horse too so can ride with her rather than on foot...I don't know it might still be too much of a change for her but will see.

Funnily enough we have just had the 'new' livery prices, the cost of full livery has actually come down a little but they are making us do our own feeds as before, still not picking out feet or rug changes and 2 haynets a day which is not enough when they are in all day. Also they want them living out mostly all summer but they 100% do not have the grazing for this...and no mention of hay in the fields. Ugh!
 
Bobthecob15 said:
Absolutely, and this is the reason we left the previous yard. But I'll see what the situation is like there now, my daughter is 2 years older, I now have a horse too so can ride with her rather than on foot...I don't know it might still be too much of a change for her but will see.

Funnily enough we have just had the 'new' livery prices, the cost of full livery has actually come down a little but they are making us do our own feeds as before, still not picking out feet or rug changes and 2 haynets a day which is not enough when they are in all day. Also they want them living out mostly all summer but they 100% do not have the grazing for this...and no mention of hay in the fields. Ugh!
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Surely the point of "full livery" is that owners don't have to go the yard everyday if they don't want to or can't do, due to work or other commitments. I fully appreciate you may want to go everyday, but it sounds as through your current set up means you have to. I fully appreciate it this makes a complicated decision even more complex.
 
I must be a lucky person then, as I am on full livery, and sometimes I do not get to the yard for a week or so. I do travel a decent distance time wise, however, I have never arrived at the yard to find my horses not exactly where they should be at any point of the day or night. The correct rug is on - or they are naked - the correct amount of hay and haylidge is in the stable. The beds are the right size and depth, the waters are clean, the feed bowls are washed out and should anything need to be changed or anything flagged up then they contact me. Videos if needed are sent.

In the last 9 years i have been their they have been kept in a max of 12 days - and only through ice and snow.
 
Bobthecob15 said:
Absolutely, and this is the reason we left the previous yard. But I'll see what the situation is like there now, my daughter is 2 years older, I now have a horse too so can ride with her rather than on foot...I don't know it might still be too much of a change for her but will see.

Funnily enough we have just had the 'new' livery prices, the cost of full livery has actually come down a little but they are making us do our own feeds as before, still not picking out feet or rug changes and 2 haynets a day which is not enough when they are in all day. Also they want them living out mostly all summer but they 100% do not have the grazing for this...and no mention of hay in the fields. Ugh!
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As someone who had to deal with ulcers because my pony wasn't getting enough forage I would be very worried about your situation. If they aren't getting enough hay then I would ask if I could pay for more to be given to them.
 
Ifmpw said:
I must be a lucky person then, as I am on full livery, and sometimes I do not get to the yard for a week or so. I do travel a decent distance time wise, however, I have never arrived at the yard to find my horses not exactly where they should be at any point of the day or night. The correct rug is on - or they are naked - the correct amount of hay and haylidge is in the stable. The beds are the right size and depth, the waters are clean, the feed bowls are washed out and should anything need to be changed or anything flagged up then they contact me. Videos if needed are sent.

In the last 9 years i have been their they have been kept in a max of 12 days - and only through ice and snow.
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Assuming you dont let the yard know before you come, you are incredibily lucky!
 
Chianti said:
As someone who had to deal with ulcers because my pony wasn't getting enough forage I would be very worried about your situation. If they aren't getting enough hay then I would ask if I could pay for more to be given to them.
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I know, I am very worried which is why I think we really need to move for their welfare. I hate them being in so much but at least they are generally eating hay all day, bar a few hours overnight, if they are in. Which really isn't a solution.
 
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