Antis complete Nutters

[Nigel]

Hi,
This is why I think antis are complete nutters who need counselling, This is taken from Richard Courses submission to the burns inquiry. The date is incorrect it should be 1988, so for ten years these planks continued with the ban. Personally I think they should be up before the judge for animal cruelty.

However by 1998, after visiting a lot of farms subject to County Council and Co-op bans I realised that I had, in fact made a very big mistake. Foxes were being killed by snaring and shot gun shooting in increasing numbers. I actually saw foxes caught by snares and dead foxes that had been wounded but not killed outright by shot gun shooting.
By trying to reduce suffering, I had contributed to increasing it.
Cheers

Nigel

 

[brighteyes]

You really are hot under the collar about all this! Don't worry. The antis will get their come-uppance sooner or later (when the Tories get back in) and we can all carry on as before - like we are at the moment! They are sad, misguided people at best and at worst, deliberate hooligans and terrorisers with no place in society. Don't let them get to you, or you'll end up as bitter and twisted as the sabs. The rest of us just have to keep our cool and sit the madness which is 'The Ban' out.

 

[wurzel]

"The rest of us just have to keep our cool and sit the madness which is 'The Ban' out."

I think you need to get hot under the collar!


You sit out the ban until the Tories ( whoever they are!) get in.



Meanwhile I will be hunting.


A word to watch is "appeasement"!!

Good luck.

 

[Fairynuff]

Nigel, I am anti but not a nutter. You cant and shouldnt tar us all with the same brush-shows a terrible lack of imagination. I hunted and enjoyed my day out and as many pros(as I was then) didnt really consider the fox etc. I am now an anti who suffers from withdrawel symptoms when the autumn arrives. I totally agree that some foxes need to be culled but do not agree with hunting as it was done. Ive been away for 17 years so cant comment on todays style of hunting. What I would like to see changed is the classic hunt. Earth stopping should be banned, digging should be banned and hounds bred for speed and not stamina used.After which I would call it more "sporting" for the fox and all concerned-if you can honestly call it a sport! Change these things and I may change my mind. Mairi.

 

[brighteyes]

I didn't say I wouldn't be going hunting - I'm going, er, not hunting. If I get hot under the collar I'm likely to do something that will land me in more trouble than enough. I'll quietly and collectedly continue to 'not hunt' with all the others. On Saturdays, with all those lovely dogs and the brightly coated men.

 

[Fairynuff]

I am neither "bitter" nor "twisted". Seems to me that its you who has the problem regarding those who dont think the way you do!Could it be a touch of guilt? M.

 

[combat_claire]

A user with a sense of perspective! You're a dying breed, better stick around on here...

 

[Fairynuff]

Please ignore my last post Brighteyes. On re reading yours I realised I was wrong. Sorry! M. Ps, at least I think I am, or is it the quantity of Sunday lunchtime wine Ive consumed! Arrgh, forget it anyway.

 

[Nigel]

Hi Mari,

Ok I will except you are far removed from the LACS, and not a true anti in the sense of the word, you would be much better saying you disagree with hunting on the grounds you have listed in your post. You can disagree with something without having to ban it.

Anyway as you claim to know nothing of the main opposition to hunting let me explain ,

Richard Course was an Ex chairman and Chief Executive for the League against cruel sports and was at the for front to abolish hunting. During the 80`s he managed to obtain bans on land owned by the co-op, but to his dismay realized foxes were being killed in increasing numbers by other less welfare friendly methods. In his words “by trying to reduce suffering I only contributed to increasing it”.

So The League were aware of what the likely outcome of a ban would entail, so why persist?

There have been had two reports one published and peer reviewed showing the experience of Richard Course is currently being repeated around the country, the ban had led to greater suffering.

A recent Book called Rural rites tells how the LACS bought Government votes and showed how opponents of hunting tried to twist information to suit there argument. It’s a damning book and as yet not one accused organization has come forward to deny the allegations.

The LACS have tried to link pro hunt supporters to the British National party, and also insinuated we are child abusers.

Can you see why when I see people claiming to be antis, I attack.

Enough said.

Cheers


Nigel

 

[Fairynuff]

No, I suppose im not a "true anti". I like to think that Im intelligent enough to have made up my own mind regarding fox hunting. I live in the middle of a wild animal refuge and have the pleasure of seeing the huntable doing what nature intended them to do-this includes roe deer, wild boar, hare, pheasant and snipe. We have a healthy fox population too which every so often is decimated by mange. Yesterday morning I heard hunters releasing thier hounds in the woods to drive out the huntable onto land on which there is no restriction. Its illegal but it happens every year. Now, do I tolerate this behaviour or do I report it to the authorities who will do nothing anyway-too much money involved, or do I close an eye and suffer in silence? Hunting is probably genetically imprinted in human beings but as it stands/stood, its not a fair outcome for the fox or any other species with 4 legs.That I can not swallow. Maybe Im being stupid but I believe in what I think. M.

 

[brighteyes]

No probs, wasn't having a go at you! It's the nasty, aggressive ones who are not acting on behalf of the quarry who worry me. Greatly. Their actions are not based on reason. You sound more than reasonable to me.

 

[Nigel]

Hi Mairi,

Do you appreciate I have no knowledge of the rights and wrongs of hunting in Northern Italy so feel it inappropriate to comment or form an opinion.

Can you please confirm if you hunted in Italy or England?


I am also very suspicious…….I hope you prove me wrong.


Six years ago the Government spent 1 million pounds on an inquiry into hunting with dogs. It concluded that in the event of a ban it is likely that those who control foxes would look to other methods to control foxes. Therefore we should compare the methods likely to be used in the event of a ban against hunting with dogs.

Do you agree that is pure common sense?

He went on to conclude the following,
6.60 Our tentative conclusion is that lamping using rifles, if carried out properly and in appropriate circumstances, has fewer adverse welfare implications than hunting, including digging-out. However, in areas where lamping is not feasible or safe, there would be a greater use of other methods. We are less confident that the use of shotguns, particularly in daylight, is preferable to hunting from a welfare perspective. We consider that the use of snaring is a particular cause for concern.

Now would you pick hunting with dogs to be banned from that conclusion?

Cheers

Nigel

 

[allijudd]

Nigel,
I completely agree with your point of view and your argument. I would also go so far as to also say that Mairi would also agree with what you are saying! From what she has already posted, she doesnt agree with digging out of the fox when it has gone to ground. Mairi please correct me if I am wrong. Personally I feel hunting is a freedom which I feel we have a right to enjoy/ take part in. But it is limited to the point that when a fox goes to ground, it wins and will fight another day. If it is on the ground it is fair game, once it goes to ground it is off limits.

 

[Nigel]

Hi Allij,

Digging out is not as simple as it appears. I can only refer to the peer reviewed three regions study conducted by Jonathan Reynolds and used extensively throughout the Burns report. I also have my own experiences. In sheep rearing areas it would appear fox are dugout more because they are considered a real threat, here hunting plays a major role in locating and destroying foxes, a more pest control element attached. However as you move into the sporting shires and the threat is not so great Charlie is generally given best when he goes to ground. Personally I think that makes sense.


Cheers

Nigel

 

[allijudd]

I totally agree Nigel, but i have seen a pack which is not in a sheep area dig a fox out because they wanted a "trophy" and it was that which I didn't agree withj. As far as I was concerned the fox won but it was the, excuse the expression, "bloodlust" of this pack which I thought was unfair on the fox. The chase was good, and very sporting right up till then. I will probably go out and hunt sometime this year, i just hope the hunt observe fair play rules and let charlie go if he go's to ground.

 

[combat_claire]

I always understood that pre-ban the decision was made by the landowner as to whether he wanted the fox dug or not. Obviously a sock is not a real threat to livestock so can easily be left to go to ground in the laundry basket or whatever...

 

[endymion]

Was this the same Burns report that helped push the bill through? Did you read all of it? Selective reader methinks.......

 

[LACS]

"peer reviewed" eh? Blimey!

 

[Fairynuff]

Nigel, I hunted in the late 70s with the Fife in Scotland and then with the Essex and then the Pytchley in the early 80s. I was on all occasions a private groom riding second horse or qualifying Pointers. All paid for and a wage on top to do it!!
Italian foxhunting is as far as I know, apart from an elite pack in Rome hunted by an English guy, is all drag and a farce. In Turin they gallop madly round a figure of eight with tiny little jumps a few times then all retire to a tratoria for a plate of tagliatelle and a few bottles of wine. I wouldnt go If I was paid to-embarrasing to say the least.
I used to beat for a private syn near Colchester and had my gaurdian angel working overtime! Ive never hunted anything here in Italy apart from fleas on my border collies-does that count? M. :grin:

 

[Nigel]

Hi Endymoin,

Yes and the first and second stage evidence, now you tell me how that is selective?

Cheers

Nigel

 

[Nigel]

Hi Lacs

Are you another nutter?

Cheers

Nigel

 

[MagicMelon]

"sad, misguided people at best and at worst, deliberate hooligans and terrorisers with no place in society".

I do not visit this part of the forum as it gets so damn nasty but this caught my eye. Dont be so pathetic. I am sad and misguided for disagreeing with a 'sport' which involves ultimately the death of an animal? Sorry, but YOU are the only ones who are sad and misguided. Dont slag us off, you have no idea.

 

[combat_claire]

If you dropped by more often you might have noticed that very few of the regular contributors added to this thread. I certainly don't think the majority of antis are nutters. Poorly informed maybe, but not nutty.

It saddens me that you truly believe the ban on hunting has made life better for foxes when evidence clearly shows that this is not the case.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/28/nhunt28.xml

I fail to see why the life of a fox should be valued above the life of my sheep or the piglets and weaners that I have been privileged to care for in the past years.

However resorting to childish insults gets un nowhere..

 

[Nigel]

Hi Magic melon,

Disagree with it all you want that’s your choice, but pursuing a ban for no good reason, Sorry you are the one that is sad and misguided.

Cheers

Nigel

 

[severnmiles]

So you didn't get lost in the Highlands after all....there is no god! :smirk: :grin:

 

[Fairynuff]

The Scottish Highlands give back that which is honest and good! M.

 

[MagicMelon]

Oh here we go, slag me off more because Im Scottish. How very mature severnmiles.

Nigel - I have my own reasons for not supporting your 'sport'. So I assume that does NOT therefore make me sad and misguided. Just because someone doesnt agree with you, no need to throw all your toys out of the pram.

Ive just remembered why I never visit this part of the forum. I shall wave goodbye to you all again as really I cannot be bothered with the insults yet again.

 

[Doreys_Mum]

no need to throw all your toys out of the pram.

Do yourself a favour and take your own advice...

 

[Nigel]

Hi Magic Melon,

Bet you come back for a peek though, you cannot resist.

I will my repeat myself again, I do not want you support, I accept people disagree with hunting, I accept people do not like hunting that is their choice. I only have a problem when you want to ban it for no good reason.

I do not like hockey, lets ban it!!!!!!

Is that clear, do you understand?



Cheers

Nigel