Anxious horse + anxious rider

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Yorkflower

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Im looking for anonymous opinions as I am reluctant to open up to those around me about how I am actually feeling….



I brought my horse 2 years ago, quite spontaneously, she seemed super chilled and easy horse for happy hacking with the potential to do more if I put the work in. The first 6 months were perfect no issues. I moved yards and she started showing anxious behaviours mainly about being away from other horses, started rearing in hand and under saddle etc etc. I got the vet out to check for pain, he found KS & SI soreness which was injected and I spent the next 9 months on the ground rehabbing and just getting to know her. We then had another yard move (not by choice) and I got back in the saddle with the help of a trainer.



The anxious behaviour continued, it would happen primarily when taken away from friends, even just a short distance into the school. It’s behavioural, she is constantly checked by vet physio and farrier who all come out and work together and are happy with her.



I would never get on and push her through bad moments as my confidence plummeted, I would only ride when I knew she was chilled and I think this is what has made it worse.



I then had a bad fall in Autumn which I blame my riding for this 100%. I have had to let her have time off ever since while I recover but it could be a long time until I am able to get back in the saddle as I had to have surgery.



I’m now stuck because I am at an all time low with my confidence, the thought of getting back on keeps me up at night.



With all this time off she’s now getting more attached to her friends again and she is going to need a hard reset. I can’t get the thoughts out of my mind that she is always going to have this very anxious nature. She is a perfect horse most of the time but she can quickly switch and her brain goes into overdrive.



For a confident rider, this is probably workable, as her previous owner had her schooling, hacking alone and everything! but I have no confidence now and so much time out the saddle and I don’t know how I am going to get back to enjoying riding her again. I have done lots of ground work previously so maybe this is the way to go before riding again?



I am thinking about hiring an experienced rider to have the first sit back on her and get her back into work for me so I can watch and hopefully then this could fix some of her issues and get her to a point where I feel more confident to ride her again. I thought of doing this because I believe some type of ‘schooling livery’ would be beneficial to her (she is green), but I don’t want her to move off our yard. I know for a fact that I have not helped her with these issues as I have been struggling with my own. I have tried so hard in the past two years and I think I need to accept that I need some help?



What would you do in this situation, please help!
 
From bitter experience, I'd seriously consider selling her and finding something more suitable to your current confidence levels, sorry. I kept my boy and thought we'd be ok eventually, but my confidence never really recovered. The sad fact was that the trust I had in him had gone and I didn't have enough determination to get it back. Keeping him is my one big regret. I should have let him go and be useful and found myself a confidence giver instead.
 
There would be absolutely nothing wrong with getting help! It sounds like the best idea and then you can decide what happens next once someone else has done the ‘brave’ bit. I had to have help with my boy last winter as his behaviour was escalating and I was getting defensive about sitting on him and it just wasn’t working. Someone kind and capable popped him back in his box so to speak which then allowed me (with support from the ground via lessons) learn to deal with it. He rarely scares me but I could tell that it was going to just get beyond me and I didn’t want to entirely lose my nerve. The fact that you had a fall will obviously make you more worried and that’s entirely sensible! Horses can hurt us. Don’t set yourself up to fail. Get all the help you can!
 
What I would do is get a behaviourist out to look at her mental soundness. It is possible that there are management changes to be made to help her, different turnout arrangements, herd setups, how she is handled etc. Appreciate what Meleeka says also, it may be that you aren't the person or haven't the resources to make all the changes she needs and selling her would be the right step, but a professional would give you more information to work with.

The behaviorist I used is on the ABTC register. I don't mean a "trainer" who is focused on just getting the horse working again, I mean specifically someone who is looking at getting you a happier horse.
 
Thank you all. I am definitely going to look at getting some professional help for both her behaviour and riding. I’m willing to put money and resources into her (within reason) as I know she has the potential to be the horse I want, as she was when I first brought her.

She thrives on consistency and I was very consistent with her over summer and we got to a good place. The fall/injury has lead that to go down the drain! My plan may be to have a behavioural specialist out soon to hopefully fix the underlying issues on the ground, then a rider once I’m nearing recovery and she’s in a better place mentally.

I do everything I can to make her happy but will definitely be reviewing things like turnout, feed etc.
 
It's odd (if the original behaviour was pain) that she showed these changes after moving yard. What was the difference in regime - was she switched between sole turnout to in company, or spending more time in or out than before? Although obviously there was at some point a physical reason, perhaps the change in yard was a trigger - you say she was calm before. Is there any chance of trying her in a regime most similar to what she had at the start? I realise that this may not help your own anxiety at least for a while, but of you combined it with using a professional for the riding initially?
 
Firstly (if selling not an option) I would try your best not to give it a second thought until you are through surgery and recovered.

If she's young / green/ had injuries then a year or even 2 in the field won't make any difference. Think about her separation anxiety at it's worse, could it really get any worse with time off ? it sound pretty bad already. If fact if there's still some niggling low level pain then time off might let that settle.

Once your fully recovered you can think about how much money you want to put into a horse that's green and got physical problems (kissing spine can be really nasty).
You could keep her in retirement and invest that cash in another horse - no harm in that at all.
Or you could get a professional to get her back up and running, then give her an honest opinion about how suitable she is for you.

Nothing needs to be decided now.
 
I think your own anxiety can definitely be a big cause here, which I'm sure you know already. No shame, I went to try a horse for sale once and hacked it down the field and it started napping and getting incredibly anxious and wound up. I didn't know the horse and the behaviour unnerved me so I actually hopped off, handed him back to the seller who got on and W/T/C him around the field cool as a cucumber. He just picked up on my lack of confidence and fed off it straight away.

I have a horse that can be anxious, the only way to ride him is calmly, confidently and hold his hand and put him to work. He used to completely flip out if we were working in an arena and another horse left but has stopped this completely since I found my confidence to essentially ignore his behaviour and give him something else to do. By 'ignore' I don't mean push him through it or ignore his feelings insensitively, but it's more a case of distracting him and holding his hand. The way my trainer explained it to me was that previously I wasn't giving him any direction in those moments and leaving him to make all his own decisions, and that's a very worrying position for a herd animal to be in that feels abandoned, coupled with him picking up on my anxiety so doubling down on his fear. Instead I needed to step-up and be the one to say "hey - everything is fine, I'm going to tell you what we're going to do, you don't need to worry about anything else". He will still sometimes go into 'high alert' when another horse leaves, but as soon as I trot away and give him something to do I feel him take a breath and relax because I have given him some direction.

I'm not sure any of this is terribly helpful other than, as you sound very committed to her, if you can dig deep and find the confidence and support to get going with her again I think she would likely be 100% 'fixable' with this behaviour. Mine now doesn't react at all to other horses leaving the arena or at warmups as long as I make sure I'm on the ball and keep him busy, and will even pass his friends out hacking and keep going without a backwards glance. I think your idea of getting a trainer in to help is a great idea, to build her initial confidence and they will then be able to tell you what buttons to push and how best to ride her through it, you can then get back on her with the support of said trainer. I know, for some reason, I feel invincible when my trainer is on the ground compared to when I'm trying to work through something on my own.
 
KikiDee said:
I think your own anxiety can definitely be a big cause here, which I'm sure you know already. No shame, I went to try a horse for sale once and hacked it down the field and it started napping and getting incredibly anxious and wound up. I didn't know the horse and the behaviour unnerved me so I actually hopped off, handed him back to the seller who got on and W/T/C him around the field cool as a cucumber. He just picked up on my lack of confidence and fed off it straight away.

I have a horse that can be anxious, the only way to ride him is calmly, confidently and hold his hand and put him to work. He used to completely flip out if we were working in an arena and another horse left but has stopped this completely since I found my confidence to essentially ignore his behaviour and give him something else to do. By 'ignore' I don't mean push him through it or ignore his feelings insensitively, but it's more a case of distracting him and holding his hand. The way my trainer explained it to me was that previously I wasn't giving him any direction in those moments and leaving him to make all his own decisions, and that's a very worrying position for a herd animal to be in that feels abandoned, coupled with him picking up on my anxiety so doubling down on his fear. Instead I needed to step-up and be the one to say "hey - everything is fine, I'm going to tell you what we're going to do, you don't need to worry about anything else". He will still sometimes go into 'high alert' when another horse leaves, but as soon as I trot away and give him something to do I feel him take a breath and relax because I have given him some direction.

I'm not sure any of this is terribly helpful other than, as you sound very committed to her, if you can dig deep and find the confidence and support to get going with her again I think she would likely be 100% 'fixable' with this behaviour. Mine now doesn't react at all to other horses leaving the arena or at warmups as long as I make sure I'm on the ball and keep him busy, and will even pass his friends out hacking and keep going without a backwards glance. I think your idea of getting a trainer in to help is a great idea, to build her initial confidence and they will then be able to tell you what buttons to push and how best to ride her through it, you can then get back on her with the support of said trainer. I know, for some reason, I feel invincible when my trainer is on the ground compared to when I'm trying to work through something on my own.
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Thank you, this response captures exactly how I am feeling! I know that my own confidence issues are bigger than her issues.

Its not a simple case of getting rid of her and getting a new horse for me, id rather work on our problems first and it all fails I will still keep her and retire her.
 
meleeka said:
From bitter experience, I'd seriously consider selling her and finding something more suitable to your current confidence levels, sorry. I kept my boy and thought we'd be ok eventually, but my confidence never really recovered. The sad fact was that the trust I had in him had gone and I didn't have enough determination to get it back. Keeping him is my one big regret. I should have let him go and be useful and found myself a confidence giver instead.
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I absolutely agree with this. My story reads almost like a carbon copy of the OP’s except the medical issues were different (and terminal).

If he had ended up being long term non ridden/with long term health problems, I probably would’ve PTS at home or let him retire from ridden work at home with his friend as he was such a stressy lad and could only just about cope on a yard with intensive work. If he’d got away Scot free, I’d have been looking for a new home, really, and doing groundwork on the side as I’ve no doubt it would’ve taken a long time.

He was so sweet, but he almost killed me, and ultimately triggered the chain of events that killed him. It was absolutely devastating. Please don’t put yourself or your horse through that.

KikiDee said:
I think your own anxiety can definitely be a big cause here, which I'm sure you know already. No shame, I went to try a horse for sale once and hacked it down the field and it started napping and getting incredibly anxious and wound up. I didn't know the horse and the behaviour unnerved me so I actually hopped off, handed him back to the seller who got on and W/T/C him around the field cool as a cucumber. He just picked up on my lack of confidence and fed off it straight away.

I have a horse that can be anxious, the only way to ride him is calmly, confidently and hold his hand and put him to work. He used to completely flip out if we were working in an arena and another horse left but has stopped this completely since I found my confidence to essentially ignore his behaviour and give him something else to do. By 'ignore' I don't mean push him through it or ignore his feelings insensitively, but it's more a case of distracting him and holding his hand. The way my trainer explained it to me was that previously I wasn't giving him any direction in those moments and leaving him to make all his own decisions, and that's a very worrying position for a herd animal to be in that feels abandoned, coupled with him picking up on my anxiety so doubling down on his fear. Instead I needed to step-up and be the one to say "hey - everything is fine, I'm going to tell you what we're going to do, you don't need to worry about anything else". He will still sometimes go into 'high alert' when another horse leaves, but as soon as I trot away and give him something to do I feel him take a breath and relax because I have given him some direction.

I'm not sure any of this is terribly helpful other than, as you sound very committed to her, if you can dig deep and find the confidence and support to get going with her again I think she would likely be 100% 'fixable' with this behaviour. Mine now doesn't react at all to other horses leaving the arena or at warmups as long as I make sure I'm on the ball and keep him busy, and will even pass his friends out hacking and keep going without a backwards glance. I think your idea of getting a trainer in to help is a great idea, to build her initial confidence and they will then be able to tell you what buttons to push and how best to ride her through it, you can then get back on her with the support of said trainer. I know, for some reason, I feel invincible when my trainer is on the ground compared to when I'm trying to work through something on my own.
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Absolutely, some horses are more sensitive to human lack of confidence than others. I think the issue with me and my 1st horse was that I started out full of confidence and a gung-ho approach, but over time, he chipped away at it. Just little things to start off with. But over time, the “little things” accumulated as I lost confidence. It was a vicious cycle, I lost confidence, he got more spooky, I lost more confidence. It ended up being very dangerous and horrible for everyone involved.

However, if you don’t think she’s quite as bad as what I’m describing, riding forwards and constantly giving her brain something to do (leg yield, etc), will help. Also, I’d absolutely get an expert in to help, it’s a game changer, and there’s absolutely no shame in being responsible.

In conclusion,

Anxious horse + anxious rider = bad

But

Less anxious horse + less anxious rider + confident expert = usually goes pretty well
 
Thank you all for the opinions, I appreciate and understand them all. It’s a difficult position as I feel like I make our issues seem worse in my head than they actually are sometimes and my confidence riding definitely takes a toll on her behaviour. I’ve never had a confidence knock like this before, so it is something I’m trying to figure out.

It was only a couple of months ago I was able to take her on solo hacks, ride in the school alone etc. with her being perfectly behaved. part of me thinks it’s just a confidence issue on my behalf or maybe we will never get that real trust and confidence back together…only time will tell I guess.

I am going to take polomums advice and leave her be and stop worrying about it until I’m recovered and able to get back on board. She is only 11 and is used to having time off due to her past in polo. Hopefully we will be able to make it work come summer time.
 
fredflop said:
Can you move back to the original yard? Some horses just don’t like certain yards, for sometimes not obvious reasons!
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Unfortunately not, it was too far from me and was more of a temp home! The yard I keep her at is something I’m reviewing at the moment. Although, it’s not easy finding the perfect set up!
 
I would really recommend that you get some help for yourself from a mindset coach- someone who uses hypnosis and/ or NLP, as this can be immensely useful in helping you to reframe your negative thoughts and develop coping strategies to deal with your problems. Make use of your recovery time after surgery to invest in yourself - it will really help you to deal with future situations. Wishing you all the very best and a smooth recovery from your surgery.
 
I would have her back and SI checked out again. Has the rehab worked? Did it work for a while and now she's in pain again? KS can be difficult to treat and often needs a certain long-term way of riding if the horse is to be pain-free. I sympathise with how you are feeling and there are some really good suggestions here but I think it would also be worth having her checked out again for pain. Xrays of her back wouldn't be terribly expensive. I say this having rehabbed a horse with KS for many months.
 
I am in the same position as you.

New mare bought September last year. Absolutely foot perfect. Started to loose her confidence and become dependent on field buddies in May/June ( Few new horses arrived ).
I had a bad fall June ( Hip Fracture ) due to her silliness of being spooky. Turned her away until Sept. Back into work and just as bad (anxious and lacking confidence).
Sent her off to a pro in Nov for 2 weeks. She went incredible, back to her old self and came along so fast. Brought her back to current yard, all excited to get my old horse back. And she’s even worse. Can’t be away from any of the horses, can’t school her, lead her. It’s intensified the bond.

Discussed with the vet and the decision to move yards has been made. Strongly believing the environment is making her bad .

I thought she just needed a confident rider.
 
Lilly-Mayspookatbags said:
I am in the same position as you.

New mare bought September last year. Absolutely foot perfect. Started to loose her confidence and become dependent on field buddies in May/June ( Few new horses arrived ).
I had a bad fall June ( Hip Fracture ) due to her silliness of being spooky. Turned her away until Sept. Back into work and just as bad (anxious and lacking confidence).
Sent her off to a pro in Nov for 2 weeks. She went incredible, back to her old self and came along so fast. Brought her back to current yard, all excited to get my old horse back. And she’s even worse. Can’t be away from any of the horses, can’t school her, lead her. It’s intensified the bond.

Discussed with the vet and the decision to move yards has been made. Strongly believing the environment is making her bad .

I thought she just needed a confident rider.
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Wow that is very similar! Thank you for sharing.

If you remember, do send an update on how you get on at the new yard.
 
I would also recommend that you rode some confidence givers before getting on her again. I lost my nerve after riding nutters all my life, lost my horse and ended up riding riding school plods for a couple of years and am no longer worried about getting on a slightly crazy horse again. The plods was exactly what I needed at the time.

Then get a professional to help with your mate when ready, but echo others, don't feel the need to push it because you think you should.
 
I know you've mentioned the vet and physio have checked her regularly, but I wonder if you'd had her scoped for ulcers? sounds like she's been through quite a lot and often with other pain they can develop uclers! also travelling and moving yards that have caused her to be stressed could also lead to ulcers. so that would be my first thing and if all is okay, I would defo look for a confident, quiet rider to help get her back into work.
 
Yorkflower said:
Thank you, this response captures exactly how I am feeling! I know that my own confidence issues are bigger than her issues.

Its not a simple case of getting rid of her and getting a new horse for me, id rather work on our problems first and it all fails I will still keep her and retire her.
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I will go against the grain of saying you need to sell her as I think there are just way too many variables going on here to make a measured decision.

The 2 yard moves will undoubtedly have unsettled her, I remember moving my rock-solid horse to a new yard, gave him a couple of weeks to settle in riding in the school etc. and he was great, then headed out for a hack. He was a raving lunatic! I was clinging on for grim life, cantering and broncing sideways round the whole hack, he spotted 2 other horses hacking ahead of us from a nearby yard and I had no choice but to tag on with them as he was putting me in the hedge and I didn't think I could safely get him back to the yard, thankfully they very kindly escorted us home where I needed a strong drink! :oops: It was short lived and he settled again after a few months, but I think it really does knock them more than we think when we move them. Plus being back and forth to the vets and presumably some periods of box-rest.

It also doesn't sound like you have ever really had the chance to 'get going' with her, with the vet issues and moving around and your injury, although you've technically owned her a while I feel a bit like you are still finding your feet with each other a bit.

The absolute necessity with anxious and clingy sorts I find is routine and consistency and I think you have unfortunately lacked both (through no fault of your own). Personally, I would not feel overly glum about this just yet and once you are mended yourself create a bit of a plan and take it from there. 🙏
 
If you can afford it I would get a freelance rider to bring her on and you just focus on groundwork , take her for walks and maybe have some lessons on a super steady one , where you can safely make corrections .

What do you feed her ?

I used to be exactly the same and was feeding my nerves into my horse, HRT stopped me 🙈.

I tried the confidence course, which a lot find helpful , although wasn’t really for me, but horses for courses.
 
You do have options and you are not alone ❤️

TRT has worked wonders for my tricky Gelderlander, I would highly recommend

As others have said don't be afraid of asking for help. Years ago I would have struggled alone, I have lots of experience with tricky horses but I am currently having an episode of low confidence having parted company with my youngster. He's been off to a specialist who has spent as much time working with me as with the horse
 
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