Any advice please?

[echodomino]

Apologies if this is quite long winded!

I have a 17hh 8yr old ex racehorse who I've owned for nearly 2yrs and who had done nothing since coming off the track. He's schooling beautifully in the field and lunges nicely but the last few times I've hacked out he's played up. About 6 weeks ago I went riding with a friend and fancied a canter up the stubble field, had to go alone as friend's pony gets too hyped, he trotted away nicely but as soon as I asked him to canter he stopped dead, spun round and ran off back towards the stables. This resulted in me sailing out the front door and doing my back in for a fortnight.

Went out on Sunday in company, he was a bit giddy when the company walked around a corner without him but nothing major. Yesterday I went out alone around the stubble field and he was good as gold, a little spooky when a bird shot out of the hedge but he was listening. Got a walk and a trot out of him around the edge of the field then decided as he was being so good to go a bit further to the bridle path. The path is narrow and has a hedge one side and a barbed wire fence the other side. We've been down there loads of times on our own and in company.

He didn't want to go and tried to turn and go the other way (he sort of pivots on his hindquarters) I let him go around but turned him in a circle and made him go back, he went down the path fine then. Went down the next field no probs, turned around at the bottom and walked back still no probs. Got back into the narrow bit and he just stopped dead, I squeezed him on, nothing, gave him a bit of a kick and he reared up (only a small one but a rear none the less) and started reversing. I slacked off and he stopped but when I gathered the reins back up he still wouldn't move on. I tried the "getting cross" approach and the "nicely nicely" approach and still got the reversing and the pulling his head down and threatening to do this that and the other. If I slacked he'd go to step forward but I wanted contact in case he went to run home. In the end I ended up doing the worst thing and getting off because he was being really stupid and I was worried he'd rip himself on the barbed wire.

I could understand if he was doing this on the way out but on the way home he's usually dope on a rope. I think he's basically napping or seeing what he can get away with but I don't know what to do about it? I'm not bothered by his size but his unpredictability - I can't read how he's going to respond, usually if he's stropping a buck or a rear but he's stopping dead or dipping his shoulder and he is starting to knock my trust in him and my confidence in both of us.

He's not so bad in company but I don't want a babysitter all the time and it's not always possible, and like I said he's lovely in the field but I don't want to be confined to schooling all the time. He's got such a fantastic nature on the ground.

What can I do to stop he being a total @ss and build my confidence back up? I know the answer's probably very obvious and glaring me in the face but I'm feeling very down about it, like I'm failing him and myself so figured I need to hear it from someone else.

Thanks

 

[Meowy Catkin]

he sort of pivots on his hindquarters

Aaah the old 'whip around' trick!

The first thing that I want to say to you is don't beat yourself up about dismounting when it became dangerous to continue riding.

I've had a 6 month ongoing battle of wills with my mare as she is convinced that Alpacas are evil and want to eat her! She has now gone by them nicely the last 3 times that I rode that route. I'm now touching some wood, so that I dont jinx it all!

* To begin with I rode other routes to keep my confidence. I always try to do circular routes as she can be a nappy madam and I really found that this helps keep her thinking forwards.
* Once when she was being very dangerous I got off and walked her past them about 20times as that's how long it took for her to go by calmly. I then got on again and completed the rest of the ride.
* I then had months of riding her past them OK-ish, but with a mini fight each time just before their field and infuriatingly, she would then walk by them nicely (even when they came over and 'meeped' at her).
* She then had some time off and became worse again once back in work. So I decided to dismount before the Alpacas (and while she was being good), lead her by and then remount once we were past. I did this about 4 times before trying to ride by again. It was after this that she has been good.

I hope that was of some help.

Make sure you both get home safely, there is always tomorrow to work on the problem.

 

[flirtygerty]

Not sure if this will help, but we have had a two year battle with our mare being a total diva, she has never liked going out alone and at times behaved like a bucking bronco, it got so bad earlier this year she ended up for sale, then I read about magnesium, now she has magnisium field licks, and in her feed and the difference is amazing, basically it is down to perserverance, you will win in the end, we are still working on getting her going out by herself, just by taking them both out and increasing the distance between them,coming back and going away again, yet she quite happily leads on the hacks, but even being walked out isn't really happy being alone, but she's no longer for sale.
I would try giving your boy a calmer before going out just to take the edge off, you can get syringes of calmer, it also helps if you keep calm, ther's lots you can do at home to help them become bombproof, we graze ours in our garden with washing on the line, just put up aline somewhere and walk him past, we have plastic bags tied to the round feeder so if they want hay they get over their fear

 

[Luci07]

all good advice - another thing is with a horse thats prone to whipping round - keep it up on the bridle, never let it stretch down or have a loose rein - you can stretch out at home. Think forward as well so as soon as you feel your horse starting to back off, put your leg on or tap forward with your whip. Mine has found this as his latest trick - he will give up eventually but right now, he has to work all the way round on a hack on the bridle and I also wear small spurs. In our case, hes just trying his luck as he does have a somewhat advanced sense of humour!. Previous trick was to not let me on at shows (kept swinging his backside away) till I was told to back him each time he did this. Pretty much given up on this party trick now!

 

[echodomino]

Thank you

He's just a swine sometimes, and I don't find it easy to figure out what he's going to do/how he's going to react unlike my other horse who I can read like a book!

The trouble I'm having is when I put my leg on is when he's resisting me more and I daren't even carry a whip as that was making him worse. It feels like it's my fault I've let him get like this, he didn't do it last year. If he saw something he didn't like and a badgered him he'd fight me, if I let him look at it then go in almost his own time he'd walk calmly past and I think now he's taking advantage of that and just doing it when he pleases.

I will persevere and see what happens but I do sit here wondering if he'd be better off with somebody else. I think I need a kick up the bum lol, I've only come off of him twice and it was only the second time that I injured myself but now it's in the back of my mind - he jumps about and I'm hitting the deck

 

[Festive_Felicitations]

Trying to push him past with legs/spurs might not be the best approach especially if it causes him to resist, some horse need time to figure things out for them selves and you trying to push them on = more stress than they can cope with so they rear/run away.

I would try long reining him up and down the narrow path, possibly with a friend on foot between you and home in case he tries to clear off. When you are riding if he stops as long as he is still looking/thinking about the path (ie not staring over his shoulder) just sit quietly and gently ask him to walk on - voice and leg. If he tries to spin round quietly turn him back and ask him to move on, the minute he walks forward even if it is just 1 step give him lots of pats. I have spent 15min + doing this and sat and read a book on a horse that froze in gateways till the horse walked on.
If after 10min you dont feel your getting anywhere again get off lead him up and down then hop on again and try again.

With regards to open fields it may just be a confidence issue as the only time he may have worked in open spaces is on the gallops with all his friends to help with the bravery! If possible go out with a friend and gradually work on being more and more independent of each other. But dont accept any napping back towards the friend even if you only go another 2 steps make sure you decide when to head back towards the other horse.

erm I hope some of that makes sense, and is usefull and not just stating the obvious

 

[echodomino]

Trying to push him past with legs/spurs might not be the best approach especially if it causes him to resist, some horse need time to figure things out for them selves and you trying to push them on = more stress than they can cope with so they rear/run away.

I would try long reining him up and down the narrow path, possibly with a friend on foot between you and home in case he tries to clear off. When you are riding if he stops as long as he is still looking/thinking about the path (ie not staring over his shoulder) just sit quietly and gently ask him to walk on - voice and leg. If he tries to spin round quietly turn him back and ask him to move on, the minute he walks forward even if it is just 1 step give him lots of pats. I have spent 15min + doing this and sat and read a book on a horse that froze in gateways till the horse walked on.
If after 10min you dont feel your getting anywhere again get off lead him up and down then hop on again and try again.

With regards to open fields it may just be a confidence issue as the only time he may have worked in open spaces is on the gallops with all his friends to help with the bravery! If possible go out with a friend and gradually work on being more and more independent of each other. But dont accept any napping back towards the friend even if you only go another 2 steps make sure you decide when to head back towards the other horse.

erm I hope some of that makes sense, and is usefull and not just stating the obvious

No that's fab thank you, I'm feeling more positive already. And it sometimes takes someone to point out the obvious especially when I've lost faith in myself

 

[Crackajack]

Trying to push him past with legs/spurs might not be the best approach especially if it causes him to resist, some horse need time to figure things out for them selves and you trying to push them on = more stress than they can cope with so they rear/run away.

I would try long reining him up and down the narrow path, possibly with a friend on foot between you and home in case he tries to clear off. When you are riding if he stops as long as he is still looking/thinking about the path (ie not staring over his shoulder) just sit quietly and gently ask him to walk on - voice and leg. If he tries to spin round quietly turn him back and ask him to move on, the minute he walks forward even if it is just 1 step give him lots of pats. I have spent 15min + doing this and sat and read a book on a horse that froze in gateways till the horse walked on.
If after 10min you dont feel your getting anywhere again get off lead him up and down then hop on again and try again.

With regards to open fields it may just be a confidence issue as the only time he may have worked in open spaces is on the gallops with all his friends to help with the bravery! If possible go out with a friend and gradually work on being more and more independent of each other. But dont accept any napping back towards the friend even if you only go another 2 steps make sure you decide when to head back towards the other horse.

erm I hope some of that makes sense, and is usefull and not just stating the obvious

^^^^Totally agree - but be careful he doesn't take the mickey and stand there so he can get out of doing anything! lol
My beast is a buggar for standing there pretending he is weeing and watching sheep/cows etc when he is not!
If he starts really bad - get off - do not feel ashamed...it is far better as you are clearly then showing and telling him 'i told you its ok to go forward - look nothing hurt you' and he will start to pick up on that...especially if you use your voice too!
hack in company but get him to go in front thats always a good place to start imo...build it little by little

 

[trickivicki]

Thank you

He's just a swine sometimes, and I don't find it easy to figure out what he's going to do/how he's going to react unlike my other horse who I can read like a book!

The trouble I'm having is when I put my leg on is when he's resisting me more and I daren't even carry a whip as that was making him worse. It feels like it's my fault I've let him get like this, he didn't do it last year. If he saw something he didn't like and a badgered him he'd fight me, if I let him look at it then go in almost his own time he'd walk calmly past and I think now he's taking advantage of that and just doing it when he pleases.

I will persevere and see what happens but I do sit here wondering if he'd be better off with somebody else. I think I need a kick up the bum lol, I've only come off of him twice and it was only the second time that I injured myself but now it's in the back of my mind - he jumps about and I'm hitting the deck

Hi... Neck Strap, Neck Strap, Neck Strap (cant say it enough times how much of a life saver they are).

Pull that instead of one of you reins and just hold tight with the other rein (should stop him rearing)... I find it confuses P if i keep swinging him round when he plants, the worse thing i can do with P is kick or shout or generally make a drama out of anything! Just anchor yourself in and be prepared for the long wait... whatever you do dont let him go back where you came even if it means reversing in the direction you want to go

 

[doris2008]

As others have said - dont be ashamed of getting off! I have done this on many occasions and horse will follow me instantly - it shows he trusts me on the ground but you still need to work at it on top or in front.
Personally I think the best thing to get him a bit more confident and forward out is to long rein - alot! It gets you fit too!
My TB is an ex racer and was horrendous alone to start with - simply due to inexperience. But he had similar tricks, he whipped around, reared and napped generally. I used to drag my dad out with me on his bike. First with the bike in front, then at the side, then behind.
Even now going out with another horse is a treat for him otherwise he becomes dependant again and won't go out alone so confidently.
Be patient with him and you will get there.
Oh and the whip round may always be there - trust me though you're body will instinctively learn what to do! Mine always responds by blocking him before my brain has the chance to think about it!

 

[echodomino]

trust me though you're body will instinctively learn what to do! Mine always responds by blocking him before my brain has the chance to think about it!

Trouble is my brain's not quick enough for my body to respond before thinking it lmao!!

keep it up on the bridle, never let it stretch down or have a loose rein - you can stretch out at home

I only read these briefly on my mobile so missed this, I don't let him stretch down out hacking as the first time he threw me was when he put his head down and bucked :[ On this occasion he was actually in an outline until he stopped dead. I wonder if this is why he copped the nark and refused to move - I was making him work???

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I've found that a PeeWee bit stops them spinning round. I'm another who thinks ther's nothing to be ashamed of in getting off to get a horse past something safely.
If he was fine before and has only just started this behaviour I'd get his back & tack checked (and I speak from painful experience here). If he came to you from the track it is more than possible that he has changed shape while you have had him.

 

[Godknows]

I've found that a PeeWee bit stops them spinning round. I'm another who thinks ther's nothing to be ashamed of in getting off to get a horse past something safely.
If he was fine before and has only just started this behaviour I'd get his back & tack checked (and I speak from painful experience here). If he came to you from the track it is more than possible that he has changed shape while you have had him.

Echo this^^^

When I had my 17.1 everytime his feet touched grass he's jump about I thought it was because he wanted to take off !! turned out his saddle had an airline crack and was pinchin when he was asked to do fast work. ie grass track = fast work (he was not an ex racer but ex eventer and hunter.

Bought a new saddle and he was fine so as I said get saddle ect., checked especially if you've had him for 2 years and he's just started this. It all smacks of pain somewhere.

 

[echodomino]

He's changed shape no end, but why would he ride fine in the field? If it was pain wouldn't he do it all the time? It's just been the last few hacks.
I'm saving to get him a new saddle as he's in a Wintec Cair at the moment and I want a leather one for him.
Have been considering getting his back checked any way as it's not been done since just before I bought him.

This is him when I went to see him:

A couple of weeks after having him home:

Got to be last spring:

Last summer:

Sorry got carried away lol. I'm hoping to get some piccies of him tomorrow as I'm off work and haven't got any of him this year and he looks loads better. I just can't figure him out sometimes as normally he's so willing to please, he's such a quick learner too which I think has it's disadvantages

 

[AengusOg]

If I slacked he'd go to step forward but I wanted contact in case he went to run home.

I think this may the answer.

 

[echodomino]

I think this may the answer.

That sounds like I was hanging on for dear life and not letting him move lol. But I can see what you mean.

I've just taken him up the bridle path with mum on foot and he was good as gold, I even CANTERED!!!!!! Doesn't sound like much but to me it's loads. I'm taking all your advice on board and I know it's going to take more than that but I'm feeling loads better already and that one small step has already increased my confidence. Will admit I cantered him and burst into tears

Will be putting piccies in PG in a mo

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'm saving to get him a new saddle as he's in a Wintec Cair at the moment and I want a leather one for him.

After a time CAIR flocking can cause soreness due to pressure points behind and infront of the rider. The weight of the rider pushes the air out from under them and into those places.

 

[Faro]

I wanted to reply here and add some advice of my own, but reading through the other posta above, Doris2008 has said exactly what I would have said. She's described one of my horses, his problems and the solution to it exactly. I almost completely lost my confidence with my boy several years ago with the napping and spinning, but now I'm doing endurance rides with him (never thought we'd be able to do anything like that!).

Getting off and leading past is definitely NOT the worst thing to do.

 

[Storminateacup]

Why is getting off the worst thing? - if you get off, lead him past and then get back on you've still won and done so safely. If he needs you in front of him to give him confidence for a while past scary objects then I would do this, its far safer than getting chucked off.

Alternatively, if its safe to do so I would back him past something. - It totally confuses them and you often "win" this way too.

 

[Storminateacup]

I d be putting him in a hunter breastplate too if he wizzes round, I have one on all the time with my horses. Beats falling off to easily.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Why is getting off the worst thing?

The only people who've told me off for leading my mare past things have trouble with re-mounting their horses. I once had to dismount to sort one of their horses out because their horse's boots had slipped and they refused to get off to sort it out!

IMO if I ask my horse to stand quietly while I dismount, then lead her quietly past something and then ask her to stand still while I re-mount and she does it all perfectly... where is the problem?

I have one ride that I can do here where I have to re-mount about 10 times as there are lots of gates on the bridleway. They are all hanging off their hinges and you need to lift them while you open/close them and I cannot do it with my bad back while mounted. My horse stands nicely for me to re-mount so it's not a problem although it is a bit of a bore!

 

[echodomino]

After a time CAIR flocking can cause soreness due to pressure points behind and infront of the rider. The weight of the rider pushes the air out from under them and into those places.

I never knew that!!

Why is getting off the worst thing?

I suppose because I've always been led to believe that getting off is allowing the horse to get it's own way and therefore reinforce the unwanted behavior. I can't remount off of the ground but that's not why I don't like getting off.

I think it's just one of those things you get in your head.

I've had a positive day today though, I posted it earlier and am looking to invest in a neck strap or similar, also the saddle is next on the list for replacement.

And I'd like to thank you all again for your advice, it's helped no end