Any Colour/Genetics experts out there?

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Alec Swan

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I've a very well bred working cocker bitch who's now in season. She's Liver coloured. The FtCh dog which I'm planning to use, is also Liver coloured. Is it fact that all the puppies born will be the same colour as their parents?

A good dog, like a good horse, is never a bad colour, it's just that I'm praying for a black puppy, or two!

Alec.
 
god knows but liver/chocolate dogs rock!!!!


my little chocolate working cocker always has people drooling over him!! :)

pics please when pups are born!!
 
Black is dominant to liver/chocolate so if you want black puppies from a liver bitch you will need to use a black stud dog.
 
In flatcoats we have liver and black. The black is dominant so you have z black dog that is black not carrying liver, a black dog that carries liver and a liver dog that only carries liver. If you mate a liver to liver all puppies will be liver. If you mate a liver to a pure black all pups will be black carrying liver. If you mate a liver to a black that carries liver each pup has a 50% chance of being black carrying liver and 50% chance if being liver. If you mate a black carrying liver to a black carrying liver each pup has a 50% chance of being black carrying liver, 25% chance of pure black and 50% chance of bring liver.
Therefore if you have a liver bitch and want a black pup the only guaranteed way is to mate to a pure black
I hope this helps, it's a lot clearer if I can draw a diagram
 
My spaniel had two liver and white parents but had a black and white grandad, her litter was a mix of liver and blacks so I guess it depends on what the line has
 
s4sugar said:
Liver to liver gives all liver as black is dominant in spaniels.
You could get white trim.
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Yes. Think Irish setters. Breed red to red and you'll MOSTLY get reds, though there are exceptions. I had one completely white (and stone deaf) and I've heard of an occasional black from reds.

When you think you understand genetics, it will come up and give you a swift boot in the backside!:eek:
 
I'm no expert, but as far as I understand it, the short answer:
I think it is highly unlikely that you will get anything but liver coloured puppies, if you mate your liver coloured bitch to a liver coloured stud dog, because a liver coloured dog is genetically bb, a black dog on the other hand is either Bb (black but carrying a brown gene) or BB (only carrying black genes), without any capital B, no black puppies (in theory at least).

The longer answer:
Coat colour genes is inherited in pairs, one from each parent, each pair is called loci or locus, sometimes one locus can affect another locus (e.g. one locus can override another inherited locus, they can decide if the colour inherited in another locus is solid or not or change the appearance of the colour etc.), sometimes they only affect their own locus (e.g. a dog that has inherited at + at will have tan points, but it only affects whether there will be any tan points or not).

In simplified theory BB, Bb or bb decides if your dog will be black, black carrying brown or brown, but as mentioned, other locus can affect how another locus is expressed. Depending on what colours the grandparents, grandparents parents etc. had, and which of their's locus your bitch and the stud dog inherited, there could be a small possibility that you might get puppies with another colour than liver, due to that another locus have overridden or affected the bb locus.
 
lurcher98 said:
My spaniel had two liver and white parents but had a black and white grandad, her litter was a mix of liver and blacks so I guess it depends on what the line has
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Colours don't skip generations, liver dogs can't carry the gene for black, you won't get a black from two livers, ever. If a liver has black pups the father had to be genetically black.
 
Dogrose said:
Colours don't skip generations, liver dogs can't carry the gene for black, you won't get a black from two livers, ever. If a liver has black pups the father had to be genetically black.
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Then. of course there are mutations....

It's considered out of date now, but "Inheritance in Dogs -- with special reference to Hunting Breeds" by Winge is an interesting read. There is a chapter on cocker spaniels especially for Alec. Your local friendly librarian could probably source a copy for you through Inter-Library Loan for the cost of postage.
 
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