Any ideas on pony not right....

[MagicMelon]

Have posted a few times on this forum about my shetland. Basically she was sold to a lovely home were sadly she kept getting laminitis due to the fact their grass (no matter how little) was too good for her. I bought her back about 6 weeks ago thinking she'd come right really quickly as she'd never had laminitis here in the 14 years Ive owned her (she's now 17). She was happy to be home and immediately that day was galloping around her small paddock. But soon went back to how she was with the people. Ive had problems with our hay in that ours is this years (new) hay which I believe is too good for her. The ONE week I managed to put her onto last years hay (borrowed bale) she improved and again was cantering round her paddock again. I had to then put her back on our hay again (she went back). The last week Ive put her onto Hi-Fi Lite as a full hay replacement. Hopefully Ive found some of last years hay now I can give her.

But thing is, the vets said she had laminitis (just mild) with the other people. When I got her home I got my vet to check her over and they said it was probably laminitis too so she's been on and off bute. She's been off bute about 3 weeks now as it wasnt really helping and I hate keeping them on it for long, plus I couldnt tell how she was properly.

Now, Im just not sure now if it is laminitis or not. Ive been linking it with cushings recently since the vet said that she may have it because I cannot get rid of this attack of lami. However watching her, Im just unsure about laminitis. She just looks stiff. Ive had another lami pony many many years ago who had it severely so do know what to look for. Its weird, sometimes when she's walking to her feed she looks perfectly fine. Its mainly out in the mud (I turn her out during the day into the yard which right now is pure mud) where she seems to pick her way through and just look a bit uncomfortable. Someones suggested athritis since she is now 17, but surely she wouldnt have the odd day / week when shes galloping about??

I know you obviously cant see her to have any idea. Im just worried now that Im imagining it!! Or that its not laminitis after all. Im feeding her on a laminitic diet (Anti Lam etc.) and also giving her chasteberry which is meant to be good if they have cushings. Any ideas from anyone would be great. I know you'll say the vet which I will call tomorrow, however Im worried they'll just shrug and say that it must be laminitis as what else could it be.

 

[Law]

I don't know what to suggest I'm sorry but I hope you manage to sort it soon. There is nothing more annoying than wanting to do the very best by your horse but not knowing what is wrong.
My old horse was laminitic and arthritic and I found NAF Dtox to be extremely useful if I managed to catch the laminitis as it was starting. I found it better than NAF Laminaze. He was diagnosed with being arthritic at 17 and went on homeopathic medication and bio flow boots which saw him go sound for the rest of his days. I was told at that point I could put him on bute for the rest of his life and old age would get him before the bute would but I wanted to try other things first.
Good luck and sorry I can't be more useful.

 

[SpruceRI]

I don't really know either but I looked onto the Laminitis Trust website for a friend whose Welshie is in a bad way with it and it explained quite a lot which I hadn't thought about before.

Maybe you could get your farrier to take a look at her feet as they're often better at spotting any rotation of the pedal bone or whether shape of hoof suggests old laminitis or existing.

I'm just wondering if she suffered any dropping of the pedal bone whether picking her way through lumpy mud hurts her feet still? Maybe she needs some frog supports for a bit?

I hope you can sort it out.

 

[brightmount]

Maybe the problem is trying to confine the diagnosis to one single condition. What madhossy says makes sense, especially if you yourself have noticed a link in her condition with the hay that you are feeding her - it does suggest some laminitis related discomfort.

But if you're also noticing general stiffness, she may have arthritis as well, as she is a senior girlie now. Arthritis may be affected by the temperature, weather and whether she has been standing in etc.

Why not keep a diary of every influential factor, e.g. feed, hay, weather, turnout etc. and note how she is, and see if you can find a link, but don't rule out the possibility of more than one condition complicating things.

 

[MagicMelon]

Ok, keeping a diary is a good idea. The vet is coming out on Friday so Im hoping they can shed some light on this, although Im worried they'll just end up shrugging!

Ive started to put a rug on her at night when she's standing in the stable just to see if keeping her really warm will help if it is athritis. Thats the thing, Im bringing her in at night (out during the day in a mud yard) just in case its laminitis, yet if its athritis then stabling her is worse for that! Cant decide what to do!

Her pedal bones shouldnt have moved as I believe she had xrays done just before I took her home which showed she was fine. And she certainly hasnt got any worse since being here.

 

[brightmount]

Personally I would do the same as you and bring her in at night at this time of year even if she does have arthritis. She would probably only be standing most of the time in a freezing rain-lashed field overnight so it's better to be dry and warm. (I'd turn out 24/7 in the summer though).

There are nutraceuticals for arthritis, the old favourites Cortaflex, Superflex, (Glucosamine, Chondroitin, HA) and apple cider vinegar, and newer ones like Pernamax (green lipped mussels) which I have found very successful. Any of these could be worth a try.

 

[brighteyes]

Doesn't sound like classical lami to me with the rapid up/down turns. Is there a digital pulse at all? Recent thinking on lami is against giving painkillers. They can mask pain and enable the animal to move when conditions in the hoof contra-indicate moving. Lying down is preferable. Also, that nsaids adversely affect the lining of the gut allowing substances to leak through which are damging to structures in the hoof and possibly precipitate separation.

If you suspect Cushing's, there's always pergolide and for a Shetland I think you'd be looking at half a tablet a day.

Id put it on a Cushing's diet as it won't do any harm and take it from there.

Farriers will generally know if there are signs of anything happening in the foot, so ask yours.

If the pony is generally and otherwise well, then don't worry too much. You could also treat for arthritis. Laminitics don't have sudden, spontaneous complete recoveries followed by relapses.

 

[annie02]

If she had laminitis for a while there could be severe damgae to the lamini that will take a long time to get better. You will be able to see the seperation when the farrier trims her feet. You could also be looking at founder from the laminitis, rotation of the coffin bone. Depending how she steps it could be more sore at times than others. An xray would be the only way to really tell that. However I think you are right to look at other possibilities. As for Cushins, does she have problems shedding out her hair or drink a lot of water? Your vet could do a blood test for this as well.

Once a horse has had laminitis it is much easier for them to get it again, feed rationing and low protien feed as well as little to no grass (especailly at the end of the summer becasue the grass is so high in starch) will help prevent relapse.

All of the above conditions can be handled or treated to one degree or another but if you want a concrete answer you need the vet to test.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Once a horse has had laminitis it is much easier for them to get it again, feed rationing and low protien feed as well as little to no grass (especailly at the end of the summer becasue the grass is so high in starch) will help prevent relapse.

[/ QUOTE ] Just to clarify - it is not high protein feeds that cause laminitis - it is in fact high levels of soluble carbohydrate - ie sugars and starches.

 

[MagicMelon]

lynwood - Ive put her on Superflex to see if that does helps. Am still bringing her in at night but with a rug on now just to keep her extra warm.

brighteyes - The farriers looked at her and says her feet are fine, he doesnt even notice any lami signs.

anni02 - I dont think she does have problems shedding her coat, obviously its only been quite recently she's shown any problems with her health (she was fine in the spring and shed as usual). She keeps a little bit of coat more maybe but then she's older, my 20 yr old pony also keeps on hair round his tum now (and he shows no signs of cushings). She WAS drinking a lot of water when I first got her home and was sweating, however the weather was very very mild at that time and even my welshie was sweating so I put it down to that, as she is now drinking normally again.


Thanks everyone, Im getting the vet out tomorrow to see what they think. She is definately perkier and seems to be improving every single day now so Im hoping we're on a roll this time. Maybe the Chasteberry is now taking effect (if she DOES have cushings). Will let you know what vet says.