Any ideas? RH lameness

[Moon Dancer]

Have posted in vet but thought here would get more traffic.
My horse is lame on the right hind. 2/10ths.*
It began about two weeks ago, he started leaning on my right hand which he has never done before, he wasnt lame to start with, last week I didnt ride much due to the weather, when I rode on sat he didn't feel level behind.*
Have had the vet out today, she flexion tested both hinds and was still 2/10ths. On a circle to the left he wasnt stepping through with the right hind in walk but wasn't so bad in trot, barely noticeable. To the right he was obviously uncomfortable and not bringing the right hind through well at all. He has a very localised sore point on his back, it is behind the saddle but in front of the sacroiliac so an unusual place to injure.
I have got to give him 7 days of anti imflammatories to try and help the pain in his back. The vet then wants to re look at him end of next week along with a physio.*
Basically she said it could be something in the leg which has caused the back injury or the other way round, she isn't sure which at the moment.*

Just wondered if any one had any experience or ideas as to what it may be! Bit of a long shot!

 

[Baileybones]

My mare looked lame behind and that's where vet was looking. Farrier however said he thought issue was front feet and throwing back.
Much chest beating and a huge insurance claim later vet found sod all at the back and so I asked for front feet to be xrayed.
Farrier was right - slight pedal bone rotation and mare is fine now being shod differently.
Impossible to say without seeing your horse but might just be something else to consider?

 

[Moon Dancer]

Thank you. I am considering all options at the moment and will hopefully know more next week, good to have lots of different things to look into.

 

[old hand]

I have one that does that occasionally. he had a fall and got stuck in a gate as a two year old before I bought him. his pelvis shifts and the mctimoney chiropractor treats him and it goes back. have to work to build up the muscle again and it is ok until he does something again. last time he slipped over in the field pratting about. A thermal scan would show areas that are hot but a vet will need to decipher which is causing the problem. he also tracks his quarters to the inside on the side he is lame. may not be the same but another possibility.

 

[vanrim]

I am experiencing something very similar at the moment with 2 horses i.e. slightly lame off hind and slightly sore backs. My vet is stumped as can't find a reason for lameness. After spending many hours searching the internet I am led to believe my horses both have hind gut ulcers. As the gut lies on the right hand side of the horse any pain here will make it difficult for the horse to step under with the off hind. You need to look at a video by an american vet Dr De Paolo where he explains how to diagnose gastric ulcers - he also states that horses with hind gut ulcers are often sore in the back in the region you say your horse is sore. Most vets in the UK including my vet don't believe hind gut ulcers exist - mainly because there is no equipment available to see them and they can only scope for gastric (stomach) ulcers. There is a lot of information on the internet and you also need to google Dr Kerry Ridgeway as he is another hind gut ulcer guru from the US who toured the UK last year. Horses with hind gut ulcers also show a resistance to going forward when ridden and are stiff on the right rein. This is just something for you to consider and I hope you get to the bottom of it. Let us know how you get on.

Have posted in vet but thought here would get more traffic.
My horse is lame on the right hind. 2/10ths.*
It began about two weeks ago, he started leaning on my right hand which he has never done before, he wasnt lame to start with, last week I didnt ride much due to the weather, when I rode on sat he didn't feel level behind.*
Have had the vet out today, she flexion tested both hinds and was still 2/10ths. On a circle to the left he wasnt stepping through with the right hind in walk but wasn't so bad in trot, barely noticeable. To the right he was obviously uncomfortable and not bringing the right hind through well at all. He has a very localised sore point on his back, it is behind the saddle but in front of the sacroiliac so an unusual place to injure.
I have got to give him 7 days of anti imflammatories to try and help the pain in his back. The vet then wants to re look at him end of next week along with a physio.*
Basically she said it could be something in the leg which has caused the back injury or the other way round, she isn't sure which at the moment.*

Just wondered if any one had any experience or ideas as to what it may be! Bit of a long shot!

 

[Moon Dancer]

Thank you very much, this is definitely something that I will research. And will speak to the vet about next week.

 

[Ali27]

My mare has issues on right rein with going disunited after a jump, she also has a sore spot just behind saddle. She was diagnosed with hind gut ulcers in November.

 

[Moon Dancer]

Thank you very much for this. Definitely something to look into more. What treatment/changes to diet did you make for your horses? Mine is currently turnrd out in the day and in at night, he has haylage overnight. I try to give ad lib but sometimes I come up in the morning and he has run out, he has it in a hay bar at the moment so maybe a trickle net to make sure it lasts?
he is fed top chop alfalfa, top spec lite balancer and sugar beet, should I replace the sugarbeet with speedibeet or fast fibre?
Any other things I could do before speaking to the vet next week?

 

[Cowpony]

Mine had a problem in exactly the area you mention. She was unlevel and shuffly but not really lame as such, didn't want to go into canter. X-rays showed nothing because you can't really get in that deep. Eventually the vet injected that area and she's been brilliant since then. That was October last year and we're now jumping again.

 

[Ali27]

Thank you very much for this. Definitely something to look into more. What treatment/changes to diet did you make for your horses? Mine is currently turnrd out in the day and in at night, he has haylage overnight. I try to give ad lib but sometimes I come up in the morning and he has run out, he has it in a hay bar at the moment so maybe a trickle net to make sure it lasts?
he is fed top chop alfalfa, top spec lite balancer and sugar beet, should I replace the sugarbeet with speedibeet or fast fibre?
Any other things I could do before speaking to the vet next week?

My mare is a very good doer and stuffs her face very quickly! I gave her one trickle net of hay and one normal net, one bucket of chopped hay/ straw chaff, one h/f hay block and fed fast fibre and half scoop of healthy tummy with succeed supplement! In am, she has half scoop of healthy tummy with 15ml of hemp oil. However I am now soaking hay in hay cube as she has put a bit of weight on during her ab lib, trickle diet.

 

[Moon Dancer]

Ok thank you. Will look into a trickle net. Does bute help the pain of ulcers or not really?

 

[Ali27]

From what I have read on the net, Bute can actually cause hind gut ulcers! I believe that the hemp oil and succeed supplement (£88 per month - ouch!) are the key to sorting out my mare's ulcers! She is due to be retested with the succeed poo test next week but she feels like a much happier pony!

 

[Moon Dancer]

Ok, I only asked as he has been on the bute for twenty four hours and the pain in his back is significantly reduced so perhaps not ulcers?

 

[Ali27]

Has he had Bute in the past?

 

[Ali27]

I would recommend the succeed test which costs around £25 as it will show stomach/ hind gut ulcers!

 

[Moon Dancer]

He has had bute in the past but this was approximately 4 years ago. I am very lucky and he is not a poorly horse. Ok will speak to the vet about the succeed test.
Thank you

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Agree with BB about looking at the feet first (something I think a lot of people forget to consider) however, I'd be inclined to say sacroiliac pain. Was thinking it before you mentioned the 'Sore spot' near that area. Also worth checking fit of saddle. I'd definitiy be looking at working with vet & qualified physio. Hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[Moon Dancer]

The vet did put hoof testers on the feet and there was no reaction. The sore spot is in front of the sacroiliac area and is very localised. His saddle was checked in December though he does lose and put on weight quite easily so could possibly need slight adjusting but it would only be very slight. The physio and vet are out next friday so hopefully between them they will get to the bottom of it

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Glad to hear it, hope you get some answers. Keep us posted

 

[Moon Dancer]

An update on my horse we are coming to the end of the week on bute. He has not come completely sound but seems a little better on the leg. However the pain in his back seems worse and seems to havs spread further forward to underneath the very back of the saddle.
Am even more confused now!

 

[vanrim]

Research has shown that horses on bute actually get MORE sore over the back for the first 3-4 days. I remember reading this in the Horse and Hound years ago. It was relevant to me because my vet put my horse on a bute trial and as she wasn't any different he concluded that her refusal to trot was behavioural. She was later diagnosed with back problems and treated at an equine hospital with injections along her back. Horses with hind gut ulcers also show back pain behind the saddle. Google Dr De Paolo. he is an American vet who has posted videos of the symptoms that horses show with gastric and hind gut ulcers.

An update on my horse we are coming to the end of the week on bute. He has not come completely sound but seems a little better on the leg. However the pain in his back seems worse and seems to havs spread further forward to underneath the very back of the saddle.
Am even more confused now!

 

[Moon Dancer]

Research has shown that horses on bute actually get MORE sore over the back for the first 3-4 days. I remember reading this in the Horse and Hound years ago. It was relevant to me because my vet put my horse on a bute trial and as she wasn't any different he concluded that her refusal to trot was behavioural. She was later diagnosed with back problems and treated at an equine hospital with injections along her back. Horses with hind gut ulcers also show back pain behind the saddle. Google Dr De Paolo. he is an American vet who has posted videos of the symptoms that horses show with gastric and hind gut ulcers.

Can I ask what your horse was eventually diagnosed with? My horse has been on the bute for 7 days now. He had his last one this morning. The bute helped his back in the first couple of days but then has got worse again. I will google him. Thanks

 

[vanrim]

Yes my mare was overweight and had suspensory issues on both front legs (but not lame) - this had caused her to hold herself funny and her back muscles had gone into spasm. I think she was injected along her back with something to release the spasm. It was a long road as she was still quite stiff after the treatment but I was told to work her every day and she did come ok in the end.

Can I ask what your horse was eventually diagnosed with? My horse has been on the bute for 7 days now. He had his last one this morning. The bute helped his back in the first couple of days but then has got worse again. I will google him. Thanks

 

[Moon Dancer]

Thought I would do an update though we arent any closer to finding out the problem. Vet and physio both came out today, vet was very confused and suprised to see that his back pain had got worse, it now goes from the wither back to the pelvis, all along the right hand side. He is not as lame, near enough sound in a straight line, no worse on flexion and only about 1/10th lame on a circle. He is currently not lame enough to nerve block. The physio treated him and gave me some stretches to do with him, and vet wants het to treat him over the next four weeks and then vet will review. She wants the physio to help the back enough for me to ride him and see if that shows up the lameness more.
I mentioned ulcers but she said he isn't displaying any signs currently but to keep an eye on him and she will scope if he starts to.
so basically still no further forward and have another 4 weeks to wait.

 

[vanrim]

I have just had two of mine scoped and confirmed with grade iv gastric ulcers in the pyloric region (where the stomach empties). They both started off slightly lame on right hind but like yours not bad enough to nerve block. One (the gelding) was so sore on the right side you couldn't touch him without getting bitten. They both also showed discomfort when the right hind (off hind) leg was picked up by kicking out. It took me 4 months and 5 vets to get a diagnosis. I am utterly convinced from my experience that most vets cannot pick up the signs of gastric ulcers. Back pain can also be a sign of ulcers.

Thought I would do an update though we arent any closer to finding out the problem. Vet and physio both came out today, vet was very confused and suprised to see that his back pain had got worse, it now goes from the wither back to the pelvis, all along the right hand side. He is not as lame, near enough sound in a straight line, no worse on flexion and only about 1/10th lame on a circle. He is currently not lame enough to nerve block. The physio treated him and gave me some stretches to do with him, and vet wants het to treat him over the next four weeks and then vet will review. She wants the physio to help the back enough for me to ride him and see if that shows up the lameness more.
I mentioned ulcers but she said he isn't displaying any signs currently but to keep an eye on him and she will scope if he starts to.
so basically still no further forward and have another 4 weeks to wait.

 

[Moon Dancer]

I did mention it to the vet and she did say she would scope but that he wasnt showing any other signs currently. She did say to keep an eye in case any signs develop. He doesnt have any other signs at all but I have bought an ulcer supplement by equine america to see if it makes any difference to him.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

I would get the hind suspensory ligaments checked out as well. If you google PSD it will bring up loads of info. Often there is nothing to feel or see - just low level performance issues. Which can become chronic if it goes unrecognised and treated. Your horses issues do definitely sound less localised, but there can still be compensatory pain elsewhere, and it can present as mild lameness and a back issue also. It would be worth ruling this out. Good Luck

 

[Moon Dancer]

Thank you. Something else to look at, the vet did palpate the leg and couldn't find any reaction or heat but will look into it.

 

[Moon Dancer]

Just thought I would do a quick update. My horse had his back injected after the physio didn't completely rid the pain. Once he had had that done he was pretty much sound though still not completely right. Vet came and watched me ride, 100% sound in walk and trot, jumped into canter and was very bouncy in the canter. Vet nerve blocked sacroiliac and saw an improvement in the canter. He had that medicated nearly four weeks ago and has been completely sound and back to normal since! The injection lasts six to eight weeks so have to try and re train the muscles in that time so he has been back in full work for over three weeks.
Am hopeful that the problem is now resolved!

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Thank you. Something else to look at, the vet did palpate the leg and couldn't find any reaction or heat but will look into it.

If it is PSD there will be no outward sign - just poor performance and mild lameness, the only way to rule this out is ultrasound