Any Ideas!

[Skilgariff]

My mare has been lame since May now. She has been nerve blocked and the vet said it was coming from the foot. He suspected arthritis of the coffin joint although nothing showed up in xrays apart from long toes. She was given corrective shoeing and a short acting steriod injection and within a few days was sound. This only lasted for two weeks though which was the length of time that the steriod was active for. This suggested that it was not arthritis and we decided to box rest her for two weeks (previously she had been turned out) After two weeks box rest she was completely sound and after re xray is back to ordinary shoes. However I trotted her up last night and she was very slightly lame on a couple of steps and I am worried now that this will get progressively worse again.

She used to kick her door a lot which had a metal bar on the side so I am not sure if she has maybe damaged something with that.

She is on week 3 of box rest and I am just wondering if anyone has any ideas or suggestions.

 

[aran]

some horses respond to steriods - others do not - its an individual horse thing. It does not mean that it is not arthritis (OA). my horse has OA in his hocks. He was given a steriod injection (can keep them sound for up to 18 months in some cases but always wears off at some point) but it only lasted a week or so therefore he was not a candidate for steroids. we ended up having surgery that is specific for OA in the hocks.
If your horse showed no OA like changes in the coffin joint then it is probably not OA (just because the steroid wore of does not rule out OA at all!). There are many sensitive structures in the foot - it could be from any and it can actually be very hard to pin point which structure is the problem. It is often just put down to coffin OA in cases where they can't decide. It sounds like you could do with a second opion to determine where the pain is coming from.
good luck with the box rest!!

 

[sally2008]

Can I ask what form of corrective shoeing she had and if she was sound during it's use, have you discussed it with your vet as a long term option?

 

[eohippus]

it might be worth getting a scan rather than an xray as this may show signs of damage/injury to the ligaments in the foot. sometimes with long toes it causes a strain which IMo will take longer to heal than a couple of weeks.
hope this helps
Dawn

 

[Skilgariff]

My vet suggested an MRI and from the way he was talking would be the only way he could find out what was wrong. I can't afford MRI and insurance only pays 50% just checked today!

 

[eohippus]

Thats a pity, it could identify what is going on. If there is nothing in the skeletal structure that is showing up as damaged then this is a good sign, I would give more time off to allow the injury time to heal and then bring back very slowly to increase fitness and strength. carefull or Corrective shoeing/footcare may be an option if the horse is prone to damage through long toes.
Best of luck
Regards
Dawn

 

[sally2008]

I agree with eohippus - if the horse had long toes an MRI scan may show up "hotspots" within the foot caused by leverage on the pedal bone, which often gets put under what seems to be the current one-label-covers-all navicular syndrome diagnosis. If the horse was sound with corrective shoeing, then why not revert to that and see if she improves again?

 

[Skilgariff]

She was only sound with corrective shoeing during the period when she had the injection. The best result we have had so far has been box rest. The second set of xrays last week were fine and vet said she could go back to normal shoes. I was just a bit concerned again that last night she seemed very slightly lame compared with last week when she was sound. I think I will continue with the box rest for another week....will be four weeks next Friday and take it from there. Aran's comment re second opinion was what I have been thinking. I just hate the box rest...she has just recovered from a tendon injury in hind leg and was on box rest for 8 months, she just started going back out in field in May..I feel so sorry for her being couped up again and don't want to do it to her if it is not necessary, but looks like my only option just now!

 

[eohippus]

'one-label-covers-all navicular syndrome diagnosis'

yes that is so annoying, they really should think of another term, as soon as navicular is mentioned the horse is virtually written off, but need not be.
I find this is also where all these new fads get away with proclaiming they have the miracle cure for navicular, ha, if it was true navicular there is no amount of potions, shoe or other that will help. Syndrome is something completely different.
rant over
Dawn

 

[eohippus]

ah, that comes back to the old arguement with long term box rest being detrimental. It can affect limbs and feet because of the lack of circulation. However, the boney structures are not affected so this is a good sign. Maybe changing shoes back so quick was the wrong move as these were easing the strain whilst the ligaments ect were healing, maybe not enough time was given for full healing. you could get another opinion, (but will this be taking away some of the money that would be free for an MRI(, or get the corrective shoes back on and leave on whilst resting, or both. It may mean that your horse has to remain with corrective shoes on to ease breakover for all time, especially if there is a weakness there now.
Best of luck
Dawn

 

[sally2008]

Hey, rant away - saves me from doing it! LOL!

I've seen several horses who have been diagnosed with "navicular syndrome" following MRI scans and duly written off as pasture pets be returned to soundness by dealing with more obvious issues like foot balance. See, I'm off on one now.

 

[sally2008]

[ QUOTE ]
ah, that comes back to the old arguement with long term box rest being detrimental. It can affect limbs and feet because of the lack of circulation. However, the boney structures are not affected so this is a good sign. Maybe changing shoes back so quick was the wrong move as these were easing the strain whilst the ligaments ect were healing, maybe not enough time was given for full healing. you could get another opinion, (but will this be taking away some of the money that would be free for an MRI(, or get the corrective shoes back on and leave on whilst resting, or both. It may mean that your horse has to remain with corrective shoes on to ease breakover for all time, especially if there is a weakness there now.
Best of luck
Dawn

[/ QUOTE ] I couldn't agree more.

 

[Stasha22]

This sounds very much like the problems I had with my mare a few years ago. She was lame on her left fore and went into the vets for lameness work up. They found that when they blokced the left foot she went lame on the right foot and vice versa. X-rays showed that her toes were a bit too long and Ultra-Sound scans showed nothing. Vets sent her home and advised 2 weeks box rest and then to re-asses.

When we arrived home and went to take her off the lorry she was crippled lame on the left fore (when leaving the vets she was only 3/10 lame). Immediately got the vet back out who was quite mystified as to why she was so suddenly and so severely lame again.

The only thing left to try was an MRI Scan and I am so glad that I did.

MRI scan showed that she has lesions on her DDFT and Collateral Ligament on the left fore and 'changes' to the Navicular Bursa (they were not sure at the time if these changes were significant or just bruising). Right fore also showed lesions on the DDFT but not so severe.

As her injuries were so severe the vet recommended I think about having her put to sleep or the alternative being 6 - 12 months box rest.

I went with the latter but had quite a few hiccups along the way (mainly colic) and instead of proper box rest she spent her time in a very small paddock (about the size of 3 stables) and now, touch wood she is sound but I haven't tried bringing her back into work yet due to other health issues.

Basically without the MRI this would probably be a very different story as we would not have know why she was so lame and therefore how to treat her. Hate to say it but I don't think she would still be here as I couldn't have carried on without knowing what the problem was and how to help her.

If you and your vets have any doubts I really would go for the MRI, I know they are expensive but it might be the only way that you will get to the bottom of things.

Or your horse might recover with a bit more rest and that would be fab! Although the question as to why she was lame in the first place will be un-answered.

Hope you manage to find out what the problem is. Having been there myself I can understand what you are going through and its horrid.

Good luck.

 

[eohippus]

Well we are reading from the same book then, it appears. lol
one addition for ching is do not under any circumstances go with cytek, preachers of the cure for warts and all, argghhhhhh.
Rest is as good as a change and can work miracles, but fad shoes, potions or some barefoot cowboys are just money making scams that pray on desperate owners. and vets who are unsure of what is wrong using open ended diagnosis of syndrome which only serves to scare the crap out of owners.
ok will stop now
Dawn

 

[sally2008]

Definately the same song sheet - particularly with regard to the C word!

I make no secret of the fact that I am an NB convertee, but only when applied by the knowledgeable and fully trained! The been on a weekend course type trimmers particuarly scare me witless.

I'm stopping now too - honest......

 

[monstermunch]

I won't rant on all the other stuff as it seems to have been done already, but please excuse me for my small rant on box rest.
Yes box rest has its place in extreme cases. However a small sectioned of paddock is by far the best idea. Not only does it prevent the horse running around but they have fresh air, grazing, and can preserve their sanity. Would you like to be locked in a bedroom all day for months! You would drive yourself mad.
You did the best thing I believe, with your paddock idea instead of box rest.
Ahhh.... I feel better now!

 

[Stasha22]

Totally agree with you. I see no reason why a horse requiring box rest can't be rested in a very small paddock instead.

I only managed one week with my mare in the stable, she was so stressed and so colicky it was unbearable, hence small paddock happened.

 

[eohippus]

totally agree with Stash and MM, I find only in extreme cases can box rest work.
However, horses are made to move about for the circulation to be good and need stimulus for the brain. However, it is like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted in regards to owners who have taken vets advice and boxed rested there horses for long periods. It is hard to know what to do for the best, especially when the real cause or problem still has not been identified.
I really hope that Ching finds a happy solution for her horse and her frustrations.
Best of luck
Dawn

 

[Skilgariff]

I agree with the box rest, she was ok with it the last time, even for that length of time, but this time around she is telling my no way! Unfortunately I have the problem of not having access to a small fenced off area, we do have sand paddocks which would mean no grazing....she could be doing with losing a bit I suppose!

Anyway thanks for all your replies, I think what I am going to do is for the rest of this week and next is take her out for grass twice a day and then next weekend see how she is, if improvement, move her to sand paddocks for couple of hours and start excerise program, if lameness reoccurs then I will go for second opinion. If she stays relatively sound then I will turn her out during day. I just don't want to box rest her again for any length of time!

 

[eohippus]

Best of luck then Ching, fingers crossed for a full recovery
regards
Dawn

 

[10past6]

My boy has also been lame since may but only on his right foot, he had nerve blocks and xrays done The x rays showed a small change in the bone but he didn't think that was the problem. My horse is a tb with very flat feet and he though the tissues in his feet were being crushed as he was walking on his heels and not his toes. So the vet recommended putting natural balancing shoes on and 2 weeks of bute also restricted to a small paddock and rest. I had also put him on cortaflex ha. The balacing shoes made him put his weight in his toes in stead of his heels, and changed the way he walks. When the vet came to check him he was very pleased with his progress even though he was a dinky bit unlevel he surgested i start riding him in walk for a month building the time up each time. Up to now he seems to be improving everyday we have had a few bad days but i just gave him a little bit of bute and rested. So i think that the combination of the shoes and cortaflex has really help him back on the road. If you horse was showing signs of improvement with these different shoes on would it not be an idea to have them put back on instead of normal shoes that might do the trick its worth a try

 

[10past6]

Also if your horse had these shoes on at the same time as the injection then i'd have thought it would have been the injection working on over the shoes so it might be a good idea to see what happens with just the corrective shoes on. At least you'd know if the shoes made any difference (if that makes sense)

 

[Skilgariff]

The corrctive shoes did not seem to make much difference. The only time she was sound with them on was when she had the injection....and that was only for two weeks about 6 weeks ago, since then as the vet said she was as bad as he had ever seen her. The soundest she was, was last Tuesday after 10 days rest and 7 days bute. We trotted her up on day 11 and she was sound. Since then it has varied from day to day, some very good others bad. I have decided to get second opinion and phoning another vet tomorrow. I just don't want to go down teh route of indefinative box rest when I don't really know what is wrong with her. Poor love was stuck in that box all last winter. I have put her in a small pen for a couple of hours a day, and have started walking her out in hand for 10 minutes....hope I am doing the right thing!

 

[eohippus]

fingers crossed for you ching. I am sure you are doing the right thing. The thing is you do not know what it is and you need to keep your horse sane whilst waiting to find out, a stressed horse is not going to help matters at all. Keep us all posted.
best wishes
Dawn

 

[Skilgariff]

Thanks for that DAwn. Have arranged for second vet to come up on Wednesday. My vet has spoken to him and he is going to share xrays and has filled him in on history......quite excited. Will let you know outcome......oh and she was sound today!!!