Any legal eagles on here?

[cundlegreen]

I'm posting for a friend, who recently bought a horse from a local dealer and has been stitched up. The horse was sold as able to hack on her own, which is not the case, as she naps and even did it when the dealer's rider came to sort her out. My friend paid a lot for her considering shes a TB mare, and has had no joy in getting her returned due to being "unfit for purpose" The dealer says she can't ride and has no experience of TB's which is a nonsense, as this lady who is in her 60's, has owned and competed successfully on TB's and cobs. Unfortunately, she's not a member of the BHS, and her solicitor sounds to be useless, saying that it will cost a great deal to go to court.
She could get the mare going I suspect, but her view is that she wanted a quiet horse to hunt and to hack alone, and she doesn't think that for the money she paid (3k) she should have to sort out this problem.
Any idea if its worth her pursuing this, as she appears to be throwing good money after bad.

 

[Lizzie66]

I'm posting for a friend, who recently bought a horse from a local dealer and has been stitched up. The horse was sold as able to hack on her own, which is not the case, as she naps and even did it when the dealer's rider came to sort her out. My friend paid a lot for her considering shes a TB mare, and has had no joy in getting her returned due to being "unfit for purpose" The dealer says she can't ride and has no experience of TB's which is a nonsense, as this lady who is in her 60's, has owned and competed successfully on TB's and cobs. Unfortunately, she's not a member of the BHS, and her solicitor sounds to be useless, saying that it will cost a great deal to go to court.
She could get the mare going I suspect, but her view is that she wanted a quiet horse to hunt and to hack alone, and she doesn't think that for the money she paid (3k) she should have to sort out this problem.
Any idea if its worth her pursuing this, as she appears to be throwing good money after bad.

Not a legal eagle but have studied some law as part of other qualifications. She can make a claim through the small claims court, her first point should be to issue a recorded letter to the dealer informing them that the horse is not fit for purpose under the Sales of Goods Act and that she wishes to return the goods and receive a full refund. That the dealer has 14 days in which to respond after which a claim will be submitted to the court for both the cost of the horse and livery costs from that date forward. At the 14 day point if nothing has been settled then file the claim. I believe it costs £25 to file.

She needs to keep copies of any texts, adverts etc as well as a record of the actions that both she and the dealer have taken to try to resolve the matter, ie dealer sending someone out to try and correct the problem, any witness statements regarding how the horse is currently behaving.

 

[be positive]

No real advice but if the dealer thinks the lady can't ride and has no experience of tb's maybe she should not have sold the horse to an unsuitable home in the first place!!!
Trading standards may be the best place to take this, it does sound as if the horse was missold and is not fit for purpose, if the dealers rider could not get it out alone that seems fairly clear cut to me.

 

[OrangePepper]

Horse Dealers
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 can be relied upon where there are no explicit terms. The main provision of the act are that goods should be of ‘satisfactory quality’ and ‘fit for their purpose’ which is where the requirements of a business sale comes in.

If someone is acting in the course of a business with a view to making a profit or a history of a course of dealings can be shown then section 14 of the act which relates to implied terms about quality of fitness will apply to the sale. The sellers multiple adverts are good evidence of a course of dealing.

Simply get in touch with trading standards and take the dealer to the small Claims Court which can be done on line. I would also instruct a specialist equine solicitor. Contact detail or solicitors below:

Good luck.

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com

Tozers www.tozers.co.uk

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

She should join the BHS if she owns a horse and has no other 3rd party cover, but the legal lot only ask for the membership number, not when she joined.

 

[cundlegreen]

Horse Dealers
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 can be relied upon where there are no explicit terms. The main provision of the act are that goods should be of ‘satisfactory quality’ and ‘fit for their purpose’ which is where the requirements of a business sale comes in.

If someone is acting in the course of a business with a view to making a profit or a history of a course of dealings can be shown then section 14 of the act which relates to implied terms about quality of fitness will apply to the sale. The sellers multiple adverts are good evidence of a course of dealing.

Simply get in touch with trading standards and take the dealer to the small Claims Court which can be done on line. I would also instruct a specialist equine solicitor. Contact detail or solicitors below:

Good luck.

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com

Tozers www.tozers.co.uk

She did all the right things, got a solicitor to send a letter straight away. The dealer says they were selling for a friend, but won't put her in touch with previous owner. The dealer sent a four page letter stating several untruths about the trial and sale. Trading standards refused to say whether there had been any other complaints about the dealer who is in a respected position in the local horsey community and IMO should have known better. The solicitor says that because my friend has kept the horse (dealer said they wouldn't refund but would take horse at livery to sell on her behalf). she is likely to lose in court, and be even more out of pocket. I'd take it further, but she's worried about throwing good money after bad.

 

[onemoretime]

She did all the right things, got a solicitor to send a letter straight away. The dealer says they were selling for a friend, but won't put her in touch with previous owner. The dealer sent a four page letter stating several untruths about the trial and sale. Trading standards refused to say whether there had been any other complaints about the dealer who is in a respected position in the local horsey community and IMO should have known better. The solicitor says that because my friend has kept the horse (dealer said they wouldn't refund but would take horse at livery to sell on her behalf). she is likely to lose in court, and be even more out of pocket. I'd take it further, but she's worried about throwing good money after bad.

I would speak to TS again and if no joy then ring back and ask to speak to the manager of the original person spoken to. Your friend has every right to return the horse if it is not fit for purpose and this sounds like the case. I had a similar situation last year and my husband is a lawyer who soon got the whole business sorted out and quite frankly wiped the floor with the dealer (horse had been butted up). As others have said, letter to dealer then if no answer issue Court proceedings this can be done on line. Good luck its a horrible situation to find yourself in I know. Also have a read, if you do Facebook, of Dodgy Dealers the truth shall be outed. You can ask on there if anyone has had good/bad dealings with any dealer its always best to do a lot of research before buying.

Do you think that the horse could have been drugged when your friend tried it out?

 

[mighty attom]

I got done by a dealer too. I used the legal help that came with my house insurance. worth looking at your policy. it did take 6 months of solicitors letters though. didn`t cost me anything.good luck, there are too many dishonest horsedealers out there.

 

[Dry Rot]

No suggestions for the OP to get the second opinion of another experienced rider (or two). Would that not be a good idea? Expert witness and all that? Especially as the dealer seems to have local credibility. Otherwise, the suggested course of actions seems the best one.

 

[hoggedmane]

The solicitor says that because my friend has kept the horse (dealer said they wouldn't refund but would take horse at livery to sell on her behalf). she is likely to lose in court, and be even more out of pocket. I'd take it further, but she's worried about throwing good money after bad.

Not true - I won a case against a dealer who wouldn't honour the warranty she gave me with a pony in the small claims court. I did it online through money claim. The dealer had offered to take pony and sell on sales livery but judge agreed with me that then I would have no pony and no money. Even though I won I have not received my money back (yet) as I will have to chase her through the courts for it as the papers were returned marked gone away and she has not paid. Your friend has to be prepared that winning in court is not the end of the case.

She didn't buy it in Kent did she?

 

[Darremi]

It is interesting to note that two success stories on this thread did not involve self-funding (lawyer-husband/insurance). Without either of those options your friend may have to face the prospect of spending time and money on legal fees and getting nothing back but a piece of paper saying you won.

As hoggedman alluded to: The golden rule of litigation is only sue somebody worth suing.

I would be looking to bring the mare on and then sell her. It may be the only way to get some money back.

 

[onemoretime]

I got done by a dealer too. I used the legal help that came with my house insurance. worth looking at your policy. it did take 6 months of solicitors letters though. didn`t cost me anything.good luck, there are too many dishonest horsedealers out there.

Good idea Might Attom, and agree there is some real scum posing as reputable dealers.

 

[onemoretime]

Not true - I won a case against a dealer who wouldn't honour the warranty she gave me with a pony in the small claims court. I did it online through money claim. The dealer had offered to take pony and sell on sales livery but judge agreed with me that then I would have no pony and no money. Even though I won I have not received my money back (yet) as I will have to chase her through the courts for it as the papers were returned marked gone away and she has not paid. Your friend has to be prepared that winning in court is not the end of the case.

She didn't buy it in Kent did she?

sorry to hear this hogged mane. I have read that you can apply to the Courts if you don't get your money and they will send the Sherriff round who can take goods to the value of from the perpetrator, it costs about £100. Read this on the Dodgy Dealers The Truth will be outed on Facebook.

 

[Ponio]

Unfortunately as the horse cost £3,000, your friend could well end up spending more on legal fees than she paid for the horse. It might be worth her contacting a few solicitors to see if they would be willing to take the claim on a 'no win, no fee' or capped fee agreement, although again the value of the claim may make this impossible.

Alternatively, is she able to make an appointment with a Citizens Advice Bureau or other legal advice centre who provide free legal advice? Although their services are more limited than those of a privately instructed solicitor (for example, they would not usually go to court with a client), they should be able to offer basic advice on the claim and how to pursue it. For example, they should be able to exlain to your friend how to write a letter before action and they may be willing to review it before she sends it. If that does not resolve the dispute, they should also be able to give your friend the relevant forms to start a claim (often they will also review the documents if their client prepares them and brings them in for an appointment) and explain the procedure for issuing it. They should also be able to tell her what she ought to be preparing in terms of expert evidence, factual evidence etc, and to advise her on how to put forward a settlement offer if she wants to try to reach an agreement with the dealer so as to avoid the hassle of going to court.

 

[pony5]

She did all the right things, got a solicitor to send a letter straight away. The dealer says they were selling for a friend, but won't put her in touch with previous owner. The dealer sent a four page letter stating several untruths about the trial and sale. Trading standards refused to say whether there had been any other complaints about the dealer who is in a respected position in the local horsey community and IMO should have known better. The solicitor says that because my friend has kept the horse (dealer said they wouldn't refund but would take horse at livery to sell on her behalf). she is likely to lose in court, and be even more out of pocket. I'd take it further, but she's worried about throwing good money after bad.

She should probably take her solicitor's advice who is qualified and knows a lot more about the details of this particular case than anyone on here so is probably in a better position to advise.

Free legal advise centres and Citizens Advice won't have the specialist knowledge required.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

I got done by a dealer too. I used the legal help that came with my house insurance. worth looking at your policy. it did take 6 months of solicitors letters though. didn`t cost me anything.good luck, there are too many dishonest horsedealers out there.

I have 2 horses that I purchased from this dealer and have had no problems