Any one here with experience of gastric ulcers

Wagtail

Wagtail

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My horse is explosive with both a saddle and with the lunge roller. He is okay when you put it on but completely flips out when he tries to move. We thought it was his kissing spines that was causing it, but those have been operated on and still he is the same. Could it be ulcers? Anyone else's horse do this?
 
My horse has had them/been treated. Sorry to say she was never explosive as your lad sounds but she certainly was in pain- any leg that was put on would result in a rear/ears back etc.(and im talking a sensitive leg as im not a rough rider) Tacking up would cause her to turn and try to bite. She would buck going into canter at times also.

I knew deep down something was wrong and even though i hadnt actually bought her i started the process of treating her, i couldnt make her suffer any more. She had grade 5 ulcers which i believe is the highest and at only 5yo the vet had never seen such angry and extensive ulcers in a horse of her age with her history.

She had her second scoping three months ago and was clear- everything has calmed now, she no longer bites being tacked up, no bucks (unless shes excited or naughty) rears have totally stopped and shes like a different horse. Her ears are always forward and shes happy for the first time i think in a long time. (I also bought her finally!)
 
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Thanks. I had a mare here that had them and she did the same as you describe. But this is really explosive and he spasms all down his sides. I think it is worth having him scoped. I'm clutching at straws.
 
it could well be ulcers - have heard of horses having explosive outbursts, and then settle down once they've been treated for ulcers. Every horse reacts differently - some become very lethargic with them, others very loopy. Have even read of some horses showing virtually no symptoms at all, and turn out to have terrible ulcers. Just out of interest, what's the horse's diet like?Has the horse only just recently started to do this? Best of luck, hope you get to the bottom of it and give an update :)
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks. I had a mare here that had them and she did the same as you describe. But this is really explosive and he spasms all down his sides. I think it is worth having him scoped. I'm clutching at straws.
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She used to have explosive moments but i think that was partly down to her starting schooling and being a typical hot headed mare- although i will say she used to be extremely sensitive down her sides/belly to the point where she wouldnt even allow me to groom her. This has improved but ive still got to be careful.
 
VioletStripe said:
it could well be ulcers - have heard of horses having explosive outbursts, and then settle down once they've been treated for ulcers. Every horse reacts differently - some become very lethargic with them, others very loopy. Have even read of some horses showing virtually no symptoms at all, and turn out to have terrible ulcers. Just out of interest, what's the horse's diet like?Has the horse only just recently started to do this? Best of luck, hope you get to the bottom of it and give an update :)
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I've had him two years. He has been out 24/7 since May. He has ad lib forage during the winter when he is in at night and is fed Pure Feeds Easy. However, he IS an ex race horse and so would have had several years of low fibre/high cereal diet.
 
A fellow livery's horse became explosive under saddle. He was fine one minute then he'd go nuts.

On one occasion he threw her off so badly she lacerated her liver and needed surgery.

This was a few years ago now and everyone suggested the horse was possessed :confused: and should be sent away to be exorcised/retrained :rolleyes:.

The owner (being a sensible human) got the vet, who suggested scoping.

He was riddled with grade 3 ulcers :eek:

He had an appropriate diet and lifestyle but had been broken in by a very abusive dressage trainer. The vet considered the ulcers may have started then, from the stress.

If yours is an ex-racer I would lay money that he has some damage somewhere.

Is he positive to the acupressure points?

http://www.depaoloequineconcepts.com/library/ulcer_treatment_protocol.aspx
 
Ibblebibble said:
was he reacting the same before he had his KS op? was he the one that had bad KS so could it be remembered pain?
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Yes, that was his main symptom. That, and being reluctant to canter. I do wonder about remembered pain, but he was better for a while after the op. If only they could talk!

Oberon said:
A fellow livery's horse became explosive under saddle. He was fine one minute then he'd go nuts.

On one occasion he threw her off so badly she lacerated her liver and needed surgery.

This was a few years ago now and everyone suggested the horse was possessed :confused: and should be sent away to be exorcised/retrained :rolleyes:.

The owner (being a sensible human) got the vet, who suggested scoping.

He was riddled with grade 3 ulcers :eek:

He had an appropriate diet and lifestyle but had been broken in by a very abusive dressage trainer. The vet considered the ulcers may have started then, from the stress.

If yours is an ex-racer I would lay money that he has some damage somewhere.

Is he positive to the acupressure points?

http://www.depaoloequineconcepts.com/library/ulcer_treatment_protocol.aspx
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That's very useful, thanks. He is pretty good to groom. A little ticklish but no more than average. I will check tomorrow.
 
One of mine had very extensive ulcers, she used to throw herself on the floor when being saddled. She had dreadful ulcers, and is now better, although still not perfect. Another used to get very yancy in the stable.
we also have one that appears to be cold girthed, and is much better in a girth sleeve, however she has also had ulcers, and a sarcoid in that area, which could have been the root cause. Does your vet have a good internal medicine specialist?
 
I am not sure if they can do the scope locally. They have a small hospital here but may have to go to rossdales. Will enquire tomorrow. Thanks everyone.
 
Mine reacts with explosions, he was scoped clear for gastric ulcers but given his outbursts we suspected ulcers in his hindgut so are treating him, he's improved loads.
 
maggiesmum said:
Mine reacts with explosions, he was scoped clear for gastric ulcers but given his outbursts we suspected ulcers in his hindgut so are treating him, he's improved loads.
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Thanks. Can I ask whether the insurance paid for his treatment given that he scoped clear?
 
hi sorry to hijack!

i have a funny feeling my lad has ulcers but iv been trolling the internet for symptoms and he has none of them really... also vet has said it doesnt sound like ulcers either but reading a post on this thread got me thinking....

he doesnt react to grooming he is pooing and eating regulary and having no issues he doesnt react when tacking up or tightening the girth... the only thing hes strated to do is through bucks in when hes hot tired and sweaty, and when i ask for canter hes very reluctant to do it and when i apply pressure for leg aids he doesnt like it....

hes fine when lunged and on a hack but i dont have to use my legs then really...

unless hes school sour icnat think of anything.... he was like this before it kind of just came on out of the blue....

so any tips on what to feed him like suppliments or anything to get rid of ulcers if he has them?

thanks :)
 
Oberon, I tried palpating the acupuncture sites as described in the video, but got no reaction. I was really hoping I would get a positive reaction because I really am at my wits end with this horse. He has gone really footy too since being barefoot. I know this is normal at first, but he seems to be getting worse. He does have slight pulses. Obviously the saddling problem is nothing to do with feet. Surely he can't be laminitic. My mare has just come down with it again and they were in the same bare paddock. Both are slim, not at all overweight. But this is a really wierd year. I have had two come down with it that have never had it before. Anyway, this is off topic. I am going to start another thread to see if anyone has any clue as to what is wrong with him.
 
The palpation videos are only a guide and a tool to use.

If there is any doubt, get the vet involved.

Some people recommend bicarb of soda for acidy horses as an old remedy (before ulcers became 'fashionable' :D) - and some people are experimenting with it for footy horses too.

So it may be worth thinking about trying that?

An issue with digestion will affect the hooves, remember.
 
I suspected that a recent purchase, who I knew had been fed cereals had ulcers, as she was very girthy. Some-one on here recommended giving her aloe vera. I changed her diet of course but she certainly improved quite a lot over a very short time and i gave up with the AV. then I introduced Cider vinegar into her diet for her joints. She immediately became girthy again, I assumed it was the acid in the vinegar and stopped it and re-started the AV, she's better again. It might be worth trying the AV while you wait for a referral.
 
OP a good way to test for ulcers is to either feed a cup of limestone flour in the horse's feed for a few days and to feed a forage feed 15 minutes prior to any lunge or ridden work and note if there is any improvement for example in girthing etc.
Alternatively you can try 7 Rantacidine tablets fed daily for 3 days before ridden work or just to see any mood improvement. Both Rantacidine and limestone flour are soothing through coating the ulcers. They will not cure the ulcers nor assist in healing - Rantacidine could be very useful if one was able to feed it every few hourse throughout the day and night. It does have acid pump inhibitors in it, but unlike omperamazole they are only short lasting. You can buy Rantacidine online or in Boots etc.
This website is very interesting and helpful:

http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm
 
I suspected one of mine had ulcers when I bought him...stressed to buggery, lacked condition- he had been fed cereals- very very girthy- bucked going into canter....(I read that this is due to acid-splash in the stomach during the canter movement). I once tightened the girth whilst on board and almost went through a fence.... he just took off at full pelt.

So - changed diet obviously- fibre only, ad-lib hay. I feed a handful of chaff prior to being ridden and give him pro-biotics. He is 99% better- I have considered AV juice and I think I might give it a bash as I've read its good for coughs, and of the others gets a hay/summer cough which goes when we soak the hay so I can kill 2 birds with one stone- as it were.....
 
Thanks, some really useful answers here. Will give my vets a call in the morning. I have been busy giving lessons and with the farrier all day. Now he's been trimmed he's really foot sore. Another of his symptoms was being very bad with the farrier. More so with his front feet. He also has overly developed pectoral muscles. I am beginning to suspect a front leg issue, or something with his sternum. Though he is fine with you pressing quite firmly all over him. I firmly believe that 99.9% of the time horses are very genuine and their reactions are pain related. This gelding is particularly honest. I don't think it's remembered pain. Yesterday I put the pessoa on him and pulled the back down under his tail. I don't attach the front until they are warmed up. I led him out of the yard and about 50 metres into the arena. I stood and fiddled with the whole thing quite firmly working it forwards as it had slipped back. He was 100% fine as I did all this. But then as I reached for the lunge whip and my back was turned he suddenly flipped out. Reared, hopped on his hind legs and spasmed all down his sides, skaking with fear. I worked him through it and he accepted it, but wasn't happy, bless him.
 
Well I spoke to my vet last night and hedoesn't seem convinced it is ulcers. He said that most horses with them will be picky eaters etc. I quickly pointed out that the mare at my yard that was found to have them had no other signs other than being nappy and resenting the leg going on. So he's agreed to arrange a scoping but wants to check his back again first. He is coming out to see him next Wednesday.
 
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